We may finally see Trump’s tax returns, and Republicans are panicking

Lutherf said:

The president, like every other American, is due the protections of the Constitution and that includes the presumption of innocence. That includes the requirement that searches be conducted ONLY with probable cause.

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I think where you are failing to get the point is that it has become customary that Presidential candidates have volunteered those documents as a matter of transparency. This is the first time in my adult life that a candidate or winner has taken us to the point that the need for probable cause was even an issue.

Just for the record, that, to me at least, is kinda probable cause in and of itself, since if he had nothing to hide, he would have followed tradition and done as those before him have.

Interestingly, I subscribe to a different tack on why he doesn't want the world to see his returns. I don't actually think there is anything illegal per se....I think he is more concerned with the world seeing exactly how bad a businessman he may or may not be. His ego simply can't handle it.

itsforthekids said:

Democrats and their lapdogs in the media ALWAYS use a republicans tax return as a weapon. Trump won’t allow them to do it to him and it galls them to the point of insanity. Meanwhile, President Trump just keeps improving America!

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I remember in the midst of their Cheney Frenzy, his tax returns were released, for 2004 , I think, and showed he earned $8.2 million...and donated $7.8 million of it to charity.

More than Kerry, Clinton, Kennedy, etc. EVER DREAMED of giving away...

Lutherf said:

Do you not understand how "reasonable cause" works? You need some kind of evidence that he committed a crime before you can start tearing through his paperwork. "He's nicer to Putin than I think he should be" isn't a crime.

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Its not reasonable cause, its probable cause.

And no, you don't need any evidence to prove probable cause, you need merely the suspicion that something is off. Its why a license plate that has a worn registration tag can be pulled over for no other reason. I mean, the tag being worn isn't in any way proof of something illegal and all, but its enough to give the authorities the ability to check into you further.

Same applies here. His not giving them up looks suspicious, and now he has people sniffing around. He's only got himself to blame.

Lutherf said:

How about even a shred of evidence that he's done such a thing before the search? Does "4th Amendment" ring a bell?

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The 4th Amendment is irrelevant to this.

There are ****ing ARKLOADS of information out there that he's done so.

Christ, you literally have no idea, whatsoever, what this is about. Just none.

Threegoofs said:

Ah.

So it’s different.

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Not really. In effect, congress acts as a grand jury. Also, keep in mind that if a sitting president were accused of rape or homicide or drug dealing or some other felony, and there was solid evidence that he was the guy, there wouldn't be a question of indictment.

Lutherf said:

Not really. In effect, congress acts as a grand jury. Also, keep in mind that if a sitting president were accused of rape or homicide or drug dealing or some other felony, and there was solid evidence that he was the guy, there wouldn't be a question of indictment.

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Not exactly....

Unless both chambers of Congress decided to actually follow through with the impeachment process, there would be no charges until the end of the Presidents term. Now, we could all hope that if there was sufficient evidence to bring about an indictment that a chamber that was that of the President wouldn't play politics and run interference until such time, but it would indeed be the prerogative of the leadership of that chamber to do what they choose.

Lutherf said:

Not really. In effect, congress acts as a grand jury. Also, keep in mind that if a sitting president were accused of rape or homicide or drug dealing or some other felony, and there was solid evidence that he was the guy, there wouldn't be a question of indictment.

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Sure sounds different.

Rogue Valley said:

We may finally see Trump’s tax returns, and Republicans are panicking

Trump and the GOP would vastly prefer a permanent deep burial as distant as possible from any sunlight.

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Republicans generally hate Trump and cant wait till Trump is sent packing, which you dont seem to know, so its "Hi and Goodbye" for me...

Hawkeye10 said:

Republicans generally hate Trump and cant wait till Trump is sent packing, which you dont seem to know, so its "Hi and Goodbye" for me...

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Interesting take.

For two years, we have been told that its Conservatives who generally hate Trump and can't wait till he is out of office.

Seeing as to how there is always a sprint to differentiate the two groups, I'm not sure we can take your post at face value.

bullseyelqcs said:

Interesting take.

For two years, we have been told that its Conservatives who generally hate Trump and can't wait till he is out of office.

Seeing as to how there is always a sprint to differentiate the two groups, I'm not sure we can take your post at face value.

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You get to speak only for you is the first thing, and do the best you can is the second thing.

Lutherf said:

There is no Constitutional requirement for anyone to release their tax returns. As such, it's a matter of personal privacy and should be respected...unless you don't believe anyone should have personal privacy.

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Curious, would your opinion be the same if Hillary had not released hers? Or is that statement just for Republican canidates ?

Roadvirus said:

No, but she's still is a representative in the United States government. Also, her husband has been involved in at least 1 shady deal (See: Visa's stock), I want to see if she may have had her mitts in the jar. That seems only fair, since that's close to what the House Democrat pusbags are filling up their undies about with Trump.

Next, I want to see Mad Magazine Maxine's taxes. She got $12M in bailout funds to her husband's bank. What else has she gotten?

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Are you just as excited to see Trumps returns? I am:lamo

Lutherf said:

Do you not understand how "reasonable cause" works? You need some kind of evidence that he committed a crime before you can start tearing through his paperwork. "He's nicer to Putin than I think he should be" isn't a crime.

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Well for the record Trump has not been "nice" to Putin. And anyone who makes such a claim is delusional. From sanctions, to his response to Putin in Syria, to encouraging NATO countries to stop purchasing Russian fuel, to pulling out of the arms treaty because Russia for a long time has been violating it, to arming Poland against a Russian invasion to arming the Ukraine for the same. He has expelled over 60 Russian diplomats and ordered the Russian embassy in Seattle closed.




Shifty Schiff today proved he wasn't interested in having evidence of reasonable cause to justify his "expanded" investigation. To sum up what Shifty said is he in on a fishing investigation for a crime to take down Trump. Or at least information they can glean from his tax records that they could use to spin in the public eye to continue the attacks up to 2020 because they all know Mueller's report isn't the smoking gun they were hoping for. Well it isn't going to happen. They will never see Trump's tax returns. Only the tax information he has already released. This is just another wet dream on the left.


Mueller's investigation will not reveal any smoking gun that will show any criminal activity of Trump that the Democrats have laid claim to in their many conspiracy theories over the last two years with Shifty Schiff leading the charge. And ask yourself out of all the crap Schiff has been spewing for the last two years ever been proved? The answer is no. And every Democrat on those committees knows there is no there there.

The left also knows Horowitz's investigation in to the Obama administration's FBI, DOJ and their handling of the investigation of Trump and his campaign is going to produce people he has recommended for prosecution. Then there is Huber according to reports is pursuing indictments. At one point Trump was ready to release all documentation in regard to FISA abuse and beyond but backed off. A thinking person would ask why? Could it be he knows persons involved are in deep doo doo and by revealing such now could hinder the governments case against them?


Then we know Horowitz was also going to pursue the major problem he uncovered of leaking to the press within the DOJ and FBI under the Obama administration. We know of two active investigation ongoing involve Baker and McCabe. Who else? Stay tuned.


Then there is Huber's involvement. We know he has gotten some of these players indicted but they are all sealed. Horowitz is limited to the DOJ/FBI but Huber has the power to go wherever his investigation leads.

For cripe sake The Clinton Foundation and Uranium One cases are still active. And we learned from Ben Sasse this week that the DOJ has an investigation into how Epstein got such a sweet deal on his involvement in sex trafficking of minors.

But anything the Democrats can do to keep the focus on Trump it takes away from the scrutiny by the press of every criminal investigation that is associated with the Democratic party.

Lutherf said:

Not just them, EVERYBODY. There's no place in a free society to have one set of laws for one class of people and another set for the rest of the people. If candidates for elected office no longer get 4th Amendment protections for their taxes and, presumably, other financial papers then nobody else should either.

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LOL Elected officials are called public servants for a reason. They work for us and as their employer we can certainly ask them to conform to a higher standard. Their job requires them to make important decisions for us and it they are doing it for money we have the right to know. What you are asking is like hiring a cashier and never checking the till.

Lutherf said:

The president, like every other American, is due the protections of the Constitution and that includes the presumption of innocence. That includes the requirement that searches be conducted ONLY with probable cause.

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There will be no search for Trumps returns

The govt already has them

Threegoofs said:

Ah.

So it’s different.

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Yes, different rules for different people are OK

Except when they are not

If there was anything in his returns to merit concern from the IRS, he would have been charged by now.

Big nothingburger coming soon.

Rogue Valley said:

We may finally see Trump’s tax returns, and Republicans are panicking

Trump and the GOP would vastly prefer a permanent deep burial as distant as possible from any sunlight.

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Forget Trump's returns, I want to see the secret financials of the Clinton Foundation and the Clinton tax returns in conjunction with foundation income and outlays. Have the Clintons been loosely living large on Foundation money and who gave that money to the Clinton and for what purpose? If democrat desires for truth from Trump dealings is pure then they should have no objection to examining the Clinton financials as well.

And while we are on a roll with exposures of secrets why not demand Obama cough up his college transcripts and finally allow his certificate of live birth to be examined by forensics experts to prove it is not forged? Why should Obama have ever refused to allow the document to be forensically examined in the first place if it was genuine and he wanted to prove that fact to the whole world?

Rogue Valley said:

We may finally see Trump’s tax returns, and Republicans are panicking

Trump and the GOP would vastly prefer a permanent deep burial as distant as possible from any sunlight.

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Mueller has wasted two years looking for something to hang Trump with and has failed. Democrats are desperate to find something to try to impeach Trump with to get him out of the way of Pelosi being made president before 2020. If Trump is removed then Pence will be the next target, and democrats are well known to commit all sorts of wickedness to accomplish their goals. I submit LBJ's escape from Congressional investigation by the death of JFK as just one factual support of many for that fact.

Lutherf said:

How about even a shred of evidence that he's done such a thing before the search? Does "4th Amendment" ring a bell?

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There is absolutely no 4th amendment issue at all. The statute that allows the House Ways and Means committee to secure a copy of the presidents tax returns has been around since 1924 and has been used numerous times to get tax returns. The committee does not need ANY justification for requesting the returns... None... The are not allowed to make the contents public without the consent of the taxpayer is the only restriction.

lwf said:

Every democratic president has made their tax records public knowledge.

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So what?

If Trump had committed some type of tax fraud during his decades as a businessman, we have an IRS to investigate and prosecute.

sangha said:

Yes, different rules for different people are OK

Except when they are not

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Same rules as you or I operate under.

zimmer said:

So what?

If Trump had committed some type of tax fraud during his decades as a businessman, we have an IRS to investigate and prosecute.

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That's irrelevant under the statute allowing the House Ways and Means committee to review a tax return.

Rogue Valley said:

We may finally see Trump’s tax returns, and Republicans are panicking

Trump and the GOP would vastly prefer a permanent deep burial as distant as possible from any sunlight.

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Here is the fact. They can get them sure. They can release them to the house ok.
what they can't do is leak them to the public. they are still secret and the only person that can legally release them
to the public is trump.

leaking them to the public without his permission is a federal felony and i would expect a full FBI and DOJ investigation to find the
people that leaked it and put them under arrest.

In fact they can release them to the house and the house can't do anything about it.
Tax returns are a private matter and not a matter off public record.

Trump has already passed the income requirements set forth by the constitution.

If other presidents in the past have released their tax returns then that is good for them that is their PERSONAL choice.
there is no law or requirement that he release them.

Rogue Valley said:

We may finally see Trump’s tax returns, and Republicans are panicking

Trump and the GOP would vastly prefer a permanent deep burial as distant as possible from any sunlight.

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"there is at least one thing everyone — the Trump administration, members of Congress from both parties, journalists, cabdrivers — clearly agrees on:"

EVERYONE agrees on it? I highly doubt 90% of american cares about this.