• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

This Is What Democratic Socialists In The US Will Bring Us:

OscarLevant said:
Oh, I do appreciate creative writing, in places that are all about creative writing. that would not be DP forum.

If creative writing is your thing, then I suggest there are better places for it than this forum.

But, a strawman, no matter how clever, how creatively expressed, is still a strawman. As such, not a merit worthy argument.

There is no such thing as a realistic strawman. To suggest it is an oxymoron.
Click to expand...

LOL. I have to admit, the left is light years ahead of the right when it comes to creative writing.
 
apdst said:
How well has socialism worked in Cuba?
Click to expand...

It seems to me that it is totally lost on the left that the US is leaps and bounds ahead of whatever socialist country the left want to compare us to, Finland, Denmark, Germany, the UK, Cuba, Venezuela, any of them. There's not one that is better than the US. But, they still want to compare us to Finland or whoever. The US GDP is 77 times that of Finland. There's a reason for that.
 
Fruityfact said:
How about Germany, france, sweden, denmark, great britain, japan, australia, italy, canada, norway, spain, finland, ireland, belgium, new zealand, austria and switzerland?
Click to expand...

Which one of those countries even comes close to the US GDP? Take your best shot. It will be a loser.
 
apdst said:
If half, or less of the citizenry pay taxes, that means that socialism will fail even faster. I guess there's a brightside to that.
Click to expand...

But more of their citizenry are able to pay taxes than ours. And we are supposedly a wealthier nation. That's because all the wealth in our country is owned by maybe a handful of people. The rest are in such bad shape they are worried about illegal Mexican immigrants taking their jobs. Obviously there is something wrong.

We're already $21 trillion in debt and you want to communtize 350 million people? That brings us back to failing faster.
Click to expand...

That's because the two or three people in this country who have all the wealth don't want to pay any taxes either. As you know, our debt has been increasing even faster since we cut their taxes even further. Obviously we are not doing something right. And it's not communism.





Let's say that's true. It'll change when we become a communist country.
Click to expand...

So you think Sweden is a communist country. How precious.


We've always been a free society. We don't like heavy-handed government. Europeans have always been told what to do, by one form of govenment, or another.
Click to expand...

Free doesn't mean incompetent- so you leave little kids to die on the street because their parents hit hard times. Does it?

And don't forget: all your ideas about "free societies" come from European political philosophy. These are not American ideas. Americans just implemented them.







Just because something is a right doesn't mean the government can confiscate my personal wealth to pay for it.

None of those changd? Three words: Green New Deal. Octavia Cortez wants to take $7 trillion from private citizens to pay for that bull****. Suddenly windmills and solar panels are "necessities". See what I mean?[/QUOTE]
 
Moderate Right said:
Which one of those countries even comes close to the US GDP? Take your best shot. It will be a loser.
Click to expand...

What's the point of all that GDP if it's all ending up in the pockets of two, maybe three people total in the whole country?
 
Moderate Right said:
It seems to me that it is totally lost on the left that the US is leaps and bounds ahead of whatever socialist country the left want to compare us to, Finland, Denmark, Germany, the UK, Cuba, Venezuela, any of them. There's not one that is better than the US. But, they still want to compare us to Finland or whoever. The US GDP is 77 times that of Finland. There's a reason for that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the population is a lot bigger. The GDP per capita income is not that different, especially if you take away the two or three people at the top in this country taking all the GDP growth.
 
Moderate Right said:
It seems to me that it is totally lost on the left that the US is leaps and bounds ahead of whatever socialist country the left want to compare us to, Finland, Denmark, Germany, the UK, Cuba, Venezuela, any of them. There's not one that is better than the US. But, they still want to compare us to Finland or whoever. The US GDP is 77 times that of Finland. There's a reason for that.
Click to expand...

Real world facts say otherwise:

World Happiness Report 2018: See the world's 18 happiest countries | Newsday
 
CharisRose said:
:2razz: I knew that. Which I returned with another absurd post, back at you.

Of course what I originally wrote was absurd.

It was my creative interpretation of the equally absurd Democratic Socialists bill of goods they are trying to sell to us in the U.S.

Their absurd and completely unrealistic Utopian Society that they have envisioned in their imaginative minds.

Would you be willing to add ^ to your list of nuts?

Roseann:)
Click to expand...

I already did. The Alex Jones wingnuts were sending around links about cattle cars, FEMA death/re-education camps, massive shipments of coffins, and some idea that the government was buying up all of the ammo on the planet. Presumably this was a leftist plot to kill them all. My post was alluding to that nonsense.

Here's a random story about some of it:
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-fema-camps-crowd-491841
 
Moderate Right said:
It seems to me that it is totally lost on the left that the US is leaps and bounds ahead of whatever socialist country the left want to compare us to, Finland, Denmark, Germany, the UK, Cuba, Venezuela, any of them. There's not one that is better than the US. But, they still want to compare us to Finland or whoever. The US GDP is 77 times that of Finland. There's a reason for that.
Click to expand...

It goes back to what I keep saying: they're so convinced of their superiority, that they just know they can make socialism work, this time.

The government can't even make a hospital system work for 9 million people and they think they're going to successfully run a system for 350 million, with more on the way? They'll **** that up like Hogan's goat...lol
 
The question isn't should America have socialism, it already does. The question is how much should it have
 
ataraxia said:
But more of their citizenry are able to pay taxes than ours. And we are supposedly a wealthier nation. That's because all the wealth in our country is owned by maybe a handful of people. The rest are in such bad shape they are worried about illegal Mexican immigrants taking their jobs. Obviously there is something wrong.
Click to expand...


No, there are more people who are taxed. In France, the lowest tax bracket pays 14% on 9,710 francs. That's $1,690 USD. Tell people who make that kind of money that they have to pay 14% in taxes and see how fast the Democrats get their monkey asses voted out. Hey, I can't wait.

That's because the two or three people in this country who have all the wealth don't want to pay any taxes either. As you know, our debt has been increasing even faster since we cut their taxes even further. Obviously we are not doing something right. And it's not communism.







So you think Sweden is a communist country. How precious.




Free doesn't mean incompetent- so you leave little kids to die on the street because their parents hit hard times. Does it?

And don't forget: all your ideas about "free societies" come from European political philosophy. These are not American ideas. Americans just implemented them.
Click to expand...







Both of those are untrue and you know it.
 
Moderate Right said:
Which one of those countries even comes close to the US GDP? Take your best shot. It will be a loser.
Click to expand...

You're right, we're even more well equipped to afford it. You're so smart.
 
Aristaeus said:
I live in England and you are wrong. It is not illegal to say something offensive.
Click to expand...

This much I know, an epithet derived from the phrase "can't understand normal thinking" rolls trippingly off the tongue about eight times a minute when you encounter a couple of British or Scottish women drinking.
Over here it's a full stop face slap dirty thirty, over there it's almost a term of endearment.
 
apdst said:
No, there are more people who are taxed. In France, the lowest tax bracket pays 14% on 9,710 francs. That's $1,690 USD. Tell people who make that kind of money that they have to pay 14% in taxes and see how fast the Democrats get their monkey asses voted out. Hey, I can't wait.
Click to expand...
France uses the Euro, just to clarify first. For a household of one person, the lowest income tax bracket in France is 0 - €9,964 ($11,352) at 0%, not 14%. Between €9,964 ($11,352) - €27,519 ($31,354) is 14%. (source)

Compare that to the U.S. Treating the standard deduction as the 0 bracket, in the U.S. the federal income tax rate is 0% for 0 - $12,200 in income. That is actually quite similar to the zero bracket in France. $12,200 - $29,000 is 10%. Less than France for that range for sure. But we are leaving out some other key nuances.

In the United States, Social Security and Medicare taxes are 7.65%. So the lowest income tax bracket in the U.S. factoring that in is really 7.65%, with the next bracket being 17.65%. That is higher than in France. Additionally, France has some weird refund and discount system in its tax code that reduces the actual tax owed. For example, "A further reduction of 20% in tax liability applies where your net taxable income is no greater than €18,685 for single person." (More on that here). I wont pretend to be an expert on that system, but it does appear to significantly reduce the taxes the lowest earners pay. And in 2016, 54% of French people did not pay income tax.

France takes in revenue primarily from the rich, expected in a progressive system of taxation.
 
CharisRose said:
Is there a DP forum rule against the use of creative writing?

Is there a DP forum rule against the use of a strawman?

You do understand that you are not obligated to read or respond to my posts.

Had you not responded to my post, you would not have been subjected to my no such thing as a realistic strawman or to the oxymoron suggestion.

If, there is no such thing as a realistic strawman. Why did you name it... realistic strawman?
Click to expand...
It was a response to your "unrealistic strawman" remark. You said I said your strawman is unrealistic, you therefore implied that yours was realistic, and there can be no such thing as it would an oxymoron.

Is there such a thing as an unrealistic strawman?

Are you able to provide the strawman oxymoron example you had in mind?

How about you just ignore my feeble minded posts that seem to insult your highly intellectual mind?

You do know you have the option to just scroll on by my posts, don't you?

Oxymorons (or Oxymora) > Example oxymorons

I'm hoping for deafening silence in any future responses from you to my posts.

Roseann:)
Click to expand...




Being obligated or not has nothing to do with anything. Are you implying that the only appropriate reply is one that gives you praise and/or agrees with you? Not sure what the point there was. But, on matters of straw......the grasping for, variety....

I really thinking diving deep into the weeds ( is that a pun? ) of this subject is getting silly.

I do suggest, however, you invest heavily in straw futures.
 
Moderate Right said:
Venezula is not a fictional country.
Click to expand...

But according to your kind, America is, because you believe it's a corporation that enslaves us and you have the right to form your own de jure government not subject to the laws of the United States at all.

Am I right?
No???
I'm exaggerating?

Yeah, and so are each and every one of you who insists on comparing social democracy with Venezuela.
But you'll just keep regurgitating it every chance you get, so will a couple hundred other parrots here on DP, because you heard it on your idiotic right wing propaganda sites.

VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!!
VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!!
VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!!

Screaming Venezuela isn't going to work, neither are all the other radioactive buzz words uttered by Trump.
 
Lakryte said:
France uses the Euro, just to clarify first. For a household of one person, the lowest income tax bracket in France is 0 - €9,964 ($11,352) at 0%, not 14%. Between €9,964 ($11,352) - €27,519 ($31,354) is 14%. (source)

Compare that to the U.S. Treating the standard deduction as the 0 bracket, in the U.S. the federal income tax rate is 0% for 0 - $12,200 in income. That is actually quite similar to the zero bracket in France. $12,200 - $29,000 is 10%. Less than France for that range for sure. But we are leaving out some other key nuances.

In the United States, Social Security and Medicare taxes are 7.65%. So the lowest income tax bracket in the U.S. factoring that in is really 7.65%, with the next bracket being 17.65%. That is higher than in France. Additionally, France has some weird refund and discount system in its tax code that reduces the actual tax owed. For example, "A further reduction of 20% in tax liability applies where your net taxable income is no greater than €18,685 for single person." (More on that here). I wont pretend to be an expert on that system, but it does appear to significantly reduce the taxes the lowest earners pay. And in 2016, 54% of French people did not pay income tax.

France takes in revenue primarily from the rich, expected in a progressive system of taxation.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected on the values but the point stands: start taxing Americans who make $11,000 a year at 14% and see how that works out at the ballot box.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
But according to your kind, America is, because you believe it's a corporation that enslaves us and you have the right to form your own de jure government not subject to the laws of the United States at all.

Am I right?
No???
I'm exaggerating?

Yeah, and so are each and every one of you who insists on comparing social democracy with Venezuela.
But you'll just keep regurgitating it every chance you get, so will a couple hundred other parrots here on DP, because you heard it on your idiotic right wing propaganda sites.

VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!!
VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!!
VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!! VENEZUELA!!

Screaming Venezuela isn't going to work, neither are all the other radioactive buzz words uttered by Trump.
Click to expand...

The US has the greatest economy on Earth. We got that way for a reason and there is a reason why the economies of Norway, Finland, et al, are nothing but microscopic compared to ours. What we have works better than any other country in the world. Where would these European countries be if we hadn't saved their skins in WWII and protected them with NATO all of these years, with us footing the majority of the bill to defend them? That savings they use for social programs for their people because the US is willing to let them take advantage of us to further their socialist ideals. Why don't we tell them to go to hell, and we could use the money we spend to defend them on social programs for ourselves? How about that?
 
Moderate Right said:
The US has the greatest economy on Earth. We got that way for a reason and there is a reason why the economies of Norway, Finland, et al, are nothing but microscopic compared to ours. What we have works better than any other country in the world. Where would these European countries be if we hadn't saved their skins in WWII and protected them with NATO all of these years, with us footing the majority of the bill to defend them? That savings they use for social programs for their people because the US is willing to let them take advantage of us to further their socialist ideals. Why don't we tell them to go to hell, and we could use the money we spend to defend them on social programs for ourselves? How about that?
Click to expand...

Another deflection, another dodge...and yet still, our economy was never better than it was during the New Deal era 1947 to 1980. Nothing in terms of standard of living for the middle class has EVER topped it since.
The New Deal was never termed as social democracy, but that is exactly what it was.

Keep flailing, O "moderate" one...you're like a giant sea bass about to pitch itself into the cold tank.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Another deflection, another dodge...and yet still, our economy was never better than it was during the New Deal era 1947 to 1980. Nothing in terms of standard of living for the middle class has EVER topped it since.
The New Deal was never termed as social democracy, but that is exactly what it was.

Keep flailing, O "moderate" one...you're like a giant sea bass about to pitch itself into the cold tank.
Click to expand...

The economies in Norway, Finland or any other one country are nothing but specks of dust compared to the US here in 2019. Do you deny that?
 
Moderate Right said:
The economies in Norway, Finland or any other one country are nothing but specks of dust compared to the US here in 2019. Do you deny that?
Click to expand...

Are we size queens now?
Norway and Finland are supposed to be specks of dust compared to ours.
Their combined population is ten million people.

Their physical BODIES are also specks of dust compared to ours.

Percent obese Americans: 28.6% (the highest)
Life expectancy: 78.7 years (8th lowest)

Percent obese in Norway: 10.0% (2nd lowest)
Life expectancy: 81.5 years (10th highest)

Bye Felicia, my scroll button calls to me.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Are we size queens now?
Norway and Finland are supposed to be specks of dust compared to ours.
Their combined population is ten million people.

Their physical BODIES are also specks of dust compared to ours.

Percent obese Americans: 28.6% (the highest)
Life expectancy: 78.7 years (8th lowest)

Percent obese in Norway: 10.0% (2nd lowest)
Life expectancy: 81.5 years (10th highest)

Bye Felicia, my scroll button calls to me.
Click to expand...

In other words, you don't dispute that the American way is far superior to that of these ****hole socialist countries, that's why our economy is 77 times that of Finland.
 
apdst said:
I stand corrected on the values but the point stands: start taxing Americans who make $11,000 a year at 14% and see how that works out at the ballot box.
Click to expand...
But France doesn't do that, so I'm not sure the relevance of that argument. Is anyone suggesting people making $11,000 a year should be taxed at 14%?
 
Lakryte said:
But France doesn't do that, so I'm not sure the relevance of that argument. Is anyone suggesting people making $11,000 a year should be taxed at 14%?
Click to expand...

It will happen, eventually. It'll have to as the government starts blowing through the money they steal from billionares.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom