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Four women convicted after leaving food and water in desert for migrants

How often are people charged with this crime who aren’t leaving food and water? Would they have been charged if they had entered without a permit just to, say, take wildlife photos?
 
Mr Person said:
For most of my life, I've known that Americans as a group have fallen so hard for their self-mythologizing that they generally don't bother asking that question. They have gotten far too comfortable in themselves.

One of many examples, the notion of how wonderfully open and free our country is because of our constitution. Take a closer and honest look at the way the criminal court system works, and you see that the constitution is only worth as much as the amount of money either you have or the state will allocate to your defense. Even then, an appellate court can always defeat your argument by lying about a key fact at trial or lying about the argument made. Hell, I saw one colleague's case where the win-or-lose difference came down to whether the claim was made under 5th Amd right to counsel or the 6th Amd.

The brief literally said at the outset of the argument that it is crucial to understand that the argument is made explicitly and only under the 6th Amd. right. The Court's opinion addressed that argument by saying in its decision "it is important to note the defendant's claim is based on the 5th Amd. right to counsel". They straight-up lied, refused to correct it, and the poor black man had to eat it.




Well, ok, beyond our self-mythologizing, we've also gotten ridiculously selfish as a group. As long as we've got ours, everyone else can go **** themselves with freedoms. People find it a lot easier to simply assume that cops are purely good except the ones who accidentally film themselves being bad, therefore assume that every criminal defendant is guilty despite paying homage to "the constitution", and wanting to provide the absolute minimum for public defense. Just one of many many examples of the studied inhumanity of law in America.
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Which court system is better than the U.S. court in your opinion?
 
this dark time in history will pass like others have passed before it.
 
CEngelbrecht said:
Four women convicted after leaving food and water in desert for migrants | Indy 100

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desertfinal.jpg


This is the underground railroad all over again. Somebody's bleeding green.
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guilty of entering a national wildlife refuge without a permit.
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"If giving water to someone dying of thirst is illegal, what humanity is left in the law of this country?"
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Well which one is it? guilty of trespass without permit or giving away water lol
 
Mr Person said:
For most of my life, I've known that Americans as a group have fallen so hard for their self-mythologizing that they generally don't bother asking that question. They have gotten far too comfortable in themselves.

One of many examples, the notion of how wonderfully open and free our country is because of our constitution. Take a closer and honest look at the way the criminal court system works, and you see that the constitution is only worth as much as the amount of money either you have or the state will allocate to your defense. Even then, an appellate court can always defeat your argument by lying about a key fact at trial or lying about the argument made. Hell, I saw one colleague's case where the win-or-lose difference came down to whether the claim was made under 5th Amd right to counsel or the 6th Amd.

The brief literally said at the outset of the argument that it is crucial to understand that the argument is made explicitly and only under the 6th Amd. right. The Court's opinion addressed that argument by saying in its decision "it is important to note the defendant's claim is based on the 5th Amd. right to counsel". They straight-up lied, refused to correct it, and the poor black man had to eat it.




Well, ok, beyond our self-mythologizing, we've also gotten ridiculously selfish as a group. As long as we've got ours, everyone else can go **** themselves with freedoms. People find it a lot easier to simply assume that cops are purely good except the ones who accidentally film themselves being bad, therefore assume that every criminal defendant is guilty despite paying homage to "the constitution", and wanting to provide the absolute minimum for public defense. Just one of many many examples of the studied inhumanity of law in America.
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I'm poor, I've eaten a number of misdemeanor charges I wasn't guilty of simply because I had to save my place to live or whatever it was. I live in a small commutity, once you have any kind of record, no matter how minor, no matter how many people rotate through the system as cops, lawyers, judges, particularly in little places like this, to be accused it to be guilty, period. If you dont have anyone in the god ol' boy network on your side, you're screwed.

Now I did graduate one of their "diversion" programs (for a charge I was in no way guilty of), and it made me a few friends inside the system, maybe got me some relief from things around here.

Fact is though, the justice system if you're poor, sucks for "white" guys too. I guess I'm still glad I'm white tho. (Got Alaskan Native in me but look white.)

I've had my issues, and have been guilty of some things, but I'd have to say at least half of the charges I've eaten over the years (all piddly misdemeanor crap they end up holding you in county on longer than felonies for some reason) I had to eat, just to be free and salvage what was left of my life, on nothing more than pissing someone off enough to call cops who were annoyed and ready to arrest someone to fill a bed in the contracted pprivate jail facility thet they are contractually obligated to keep at minimum 85% capacity at all times.:roll:
 
All over Arizona you find bottles, jugs, etc. of water left behind for others. This had nothing to do with giving water to migrants.
 
Lursa said:
It would be great if just 1 billion of that demand for the wall could go to identification and punishment of employers hiring illegals.
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We're doing that now


Lursa said:
I keep seeing the illegals described as 'invaders.' If so, then why arent we focusing on employers for treason? Or at least aiding and abetting? Or accomplices?
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We are. See above.
 
markjs said:
I'm poor, I've eaten a number of misdemeanor charges I wasn't guilty of simply because I had to save my place to live or whatever it was. I live in a small commutity, once you have any kind of record, no matter how minor, no matter how many people rotate through the system as cops, lawyers, judges, particularly in little places like this, to be accused it to be guilty, period. If you dont have anyone in the god ol' boy network on your side, you're screwed.

Now I did graduate one of their "diversion" programs (for a charge I was in no way guilty of), and it made me a few friends inside the system, maybe got me some relief from things around here.

Fact is though, the justice system if you're poor, sucks for "white" guys too. I guess I'm still glad I'm white tho. (Got Alaskan Native in me but look white.)

I've had my issues, and have been guilty of some things, but I'd have to say at least half of the charges I've eaten over the years (all piddly misdemeanor crap they end up holding you in county on longer than felonies for some reason) I had to eat, just to be free and salvage what was left of my life, on nothing more than pissing someone off enough to call cops who were annoyed and ready to arrest someone to fill a bed in the contracted pprivate jail facility thet they are contractually obligated to keep at minimum 85% capacity at all times.:roll:
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As have so many...so many have suffered at the hands of this abusive so-called justice system run by our deeply non functional government with-in our deeply corrupt society where the citizens have turn up negligent in our management responsibilities.
 
markjs said:
I'm poor, I've eaten a number of misdemeanor charges I wasn't guilty of simply because I had to save my place to live or whatever it was. I live in a small commutity, once you have any kind of record, no matter how minor, no matter how many people rotate through the system as cops, lawyers, judges, particularly in little places like this, to be accused it to be guilty, period. If you dont have anyone in the god ol' boy network on your side, you're screwed.

Now I did graduate one of their "diversion" programs (for a charge I was in no way guilty of), and it made me a few friends inside the system, maybe got me some relief from things around here.

Fact is though, the justice system if you're poor, sucks for "white" guys too. I guess I'm still glad I'm white tho. (Got Alaskan Native in me but look white.)

I've had my issues, and have been guilty of some things, but I'd have to say at least half of the charges I've eaten over the years (all piddly misdemeanor crap they end up holding you in county on longer than felonies for some reason) I had to eat, just to be free and salvage what was left of my life, on nothing more than pissing someone off enough to call cops who were annoyed and ready to arrest someone to fill a bed in the contracted pprivate jail facility thet they are contractually obligated to keep at minimum 85% capacity at all times.:roll:
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I don't know if I've said this to you, but my statements are coming from the perspective of being a person who for some odd reason decided that he might as well donate the bulk of his career.....so while I get paid for what I do, it's pennies on the dollar compared to what I could make if I aimed for riches. I do appointed criminal appeals. They pay, oh, 1/5th-1/10th of what a private attorney will charge.

But then, at least what I see when I read transcripts never fails to piss me off. Negative motivation, but at least it's motivation. I'd probably hate any other job ten times more than I already hate this, but hey, pessimist by nature.




Then again, I'm not going to provide my name, so plenty of people around here have fun calling me a fraud. Especially given the hours I waste here, then have to make up later (if I want to pay my mortgage that is).
 
Bullseye said:
We're doing that now


We are. See above.
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I realize that.

Now..just think how many more raids and how much more effective they'd be if they had just a fraction of that $5.7? Take 1 billion, spend it on identification and enforcement of employers.
 
Lursa said:
I realize that.

Now..just think how many more raids and how much more effective they'd be if they had just a fraction of that $5.7? Take 1 billion, spend it on identification and enforcement of employers.
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Just think how many fewer illegals there will be to hire if the wall and other improvements Trump has proposed get enacted. The time to prevent illegal employees is BEFORE they show up at the employer's door.
 
Bullseye said:
Just think how many fewer illegals there will be to hire if the wall and other improvements Trump has proposed get enacted. The time to prevent illegal employees is BEFORE they show up at the employer's door.
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just think how many fewer there will be if we remove the main reason they come here?

During the economic crisis of 2008-2009, the number of illegals entering dropped and many here left.

And in no way am I relieving American employers of their responsibility not to hire illegals.

There are many different ways and new technology to help prevent more illegal entries. The cost effectiveness of 'the wall' has not been demonstrated to do that. People keep making stupid comparisons to walls in more populated areas, walls in other countries that have someone within shooting distance at every point, etc.

The border patrol themselves have said that most drug and human trafficking happens at the regular portals in trucks/cars. So the wall wont be making much dent there.
 
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