• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Would the Dems have given in for a permanent solution for DACA

Yeah air traffic controllers...who needs them ?

When you hear someone celebrate what they think is "less government" when describing this shutdown, that's when you realize that you're talking to someone who has a nine year old's understanding of how the world works.
It means that their life experiences are those of a nine year-old's.
 
I say, neither party should ever use a government shutdown for political gain again. Just like what you are asking about DACA, both of us know to never say never.

Utilizing hostages can never be rewarded again. And if this results in privatizing the closed segments of the government, those segments will just be renationalized once the current administration makes its exit. Imagine a "privatized FBI/FAA/CDC/DOJ/FCC etc."...this is beyond retarded and bordering on outright insanity.
 
That is why I think that if he was smart McConnell should pass the bill from the House and let Trump take the heat. I think Trump might be forced to either sign or let it lay on his desk and get passed. McConnell who is low in the polls in Kentucky might come out the hero.

Oh Hell no, people in KY are already sick of McConnell. He's toast no matter what he does now.
 
Are you going to pay for air traffic controllers?

Doesn't matter, privatized ATC "corporations" will find new and different ways to "gum up the works" in order to jack up rates 24/7/365 while providing less and less service to cut costs and increase profit.
 
So you want me to kick in 25 cents next time I have a Bloody Mary in the airport? Okay, sure. Now, who is collecting the money. Who is managing the company? You?

And what about the millions of people who never go into the bars in airports?

He's forgetting the private prisons who view low crime and resulting empty inmate cells as one of those "problems that impact them all." Their "solution" has been to SUE states to recoup costs, and to lobby for stiffer and stiffer sentencing for minor offenses, and provide less and less services to cut costs.

Yeah, I don't think a lot of people take that as "solving problems". The mind boggles trying to imagine "solutions" invented by private ATC's.
 
Ahhh typical conservative deflection by attempting to take it to an absurd level..... :roll:

Many industries we have today wouldn't have been feasible or safe without the government.

But clue up the Limbaugh occy rant and play on... :peace

Reducto ad absurdum
 
Sure, let get rid of all TSA agents, Air Traffic Controllers and Border Agents, not to mention IRS people and FDA agents that check to see if the food is free of disease. These are already being affected by the shutdown. Let's all have guns in our homes and defend them against Terrorists, against Scammers (like Trump), and from robbers who will be trying to take it away from us because of the lack of police. Let's not travel anymore to visit our relatives and friends either.

Let's shutter ourselves in and live off of the land as long as we can.

Great suggestion Luther

Oh no, we have to privatize law enforcement too!!!

(Pro tip: Robocop was not about "a mechanical policeman")

 
The simple answer to the question posed in the thread title is.... NO!

They can't and in fact Hill Republicans thank God they can't because giving in sends Article 1 right off a cliff edge and they will have made every single Representative and Senator's job extraneous, and the Hill a useless appendage looking for a reason to exist. That is the inescapable fact of this mess. Since Americans are slow, don't have any idea how their own government was designed and don't read any longer they will probably be slow to figure this out.

However, somehow Pelosi has to help Trump to an off ramp, a loathsome task if there ever was one since Trump backed himself into this entire mess. He hasn't a clue and never had one and he has put together a staff that I can at best describe as incompetent and worse, reprehensible. They simply have boxed themselves in and sealed off the only door. Heck, they are so stupid they did not even leave a trap door. Its actually even worse than that. Not only is there no door and no trap door but they designed this box so that the walls would move ever inward squeezing themselves into a smaller and smaller footprint.

So Pelosi has to contrive an off ramp that does not give Trump his physical barrier, that does not even give him these 230 miles of new physical barrier because without going through Appropriations, if she gives it to him, this will just end up being Phase 1 of something Donald could never even describe and is still avoiding describing through the rigor of an Appropriations process.

Likely something like 100% coverage of the Southern Border via technology supported by personnel and vehicles plus upgraded scanning technology at legal POE's in a billions and billions of $ effort spanning 10 years that will still actually be cheaper and more effective than any additional physical barrier, Bollard Fence, artistic slats, solid construction, WHATEVER is the way out! Trump never knew what the frigg he actually wanted to build anyway. So it will not be hard for him to convince his goons that this is VICTORY for him and them.

Trump for his part will have to agree to open the government BEFORE we get to the particulars I describe above. That is the stop light before the only off ramp.

Get this done and throw this screaming idiot fool, thug out on his stupid butt end no later than 2020.
 
Last edited:
So today, Pelosi and Jim Clyburn offered just the sort of off ramp to Trump I was suggesting in post #184 above. In fact Clyburn did a much better job of describing it than I would have expected of him. He might turn out to be a good choice at Whip after all.

But of course, Donald cannot see past his nose, cannot see that Clyburn's language threw him the most hittable softball Trump is ever going to see. Clyburn is giving Trump a perfect opportunity to declare victory and move on. In fact, Clyburn's language dovetailed with language Donald himself as used in one of his million iterations of his Wall. Trump is such a bad negotiator and such a poor politician that not only did he not hit it over the fence, he didn't even swing at it. Didn't even foul it off. What a rube.
 
The thing is that he gave an offer that is meaningless, because that's the way it's going through the court anyway, and it's something he tired to take away to begin with.

So what do you suggest
 
So what do you suggest

I suggest that by law, any CR passed must be clean, with no other issue attached to the CR. I suggest that Trump actually make good efforts to negotiate. Remember, he could have had a whole 25B for the wall, with the DACA being made permanent.. but no, he waited till the last minute, and then yanked the football away. When people keep doing that, it's hard to take their negotiations seriously.
 
I suggest that by law, any CR passed must be clean, with no other issue attached to the CR. I suggest that Trump actually make good efforts to negotiate. Remember, he could have had a whole 25B for the wall, with the DACA being made permanent.. but no, he waited till the last minute, and then yanked the football away. When people keep doing that, it's hard to take their negotiations seriously.

Geez its even worse than that. The GOP used its Reconciliation shot in year one on the tax cut. It could have used Reconciliation in year two on this Wall mess and could have gotten it through the Senate on a simple majority vote as opposed to a 3/5 majority or 60 vote majority. THAT is how easily they could have had this Wall funding if they really wanted it.
 
Geez its even worse than that. The GOP used its Reconciliation shot in year one on the tax cut. It could have used Reconciliation in year two on this Wall mess and could have gotten it through the Senate on a simple majority vote as opposed to a 3/5 majority or 60 vote majority. THAT is how easily they could have had this Wall funding if they really wanted it.

I think this is just a distraction from Trumps legal issues.
 
I suggest that by law, any CR passed must be clean, with no other issue attached to the CR. I suggest that Trump actually make good efforts to negotiate. Remember, he could have had a whole 25B for the wall, with the DACA being made permanent.. but no, he waited till the last minute, and then yanked the football away. When people keep doing that, it's hard to take their negotiations seriously.

You know what is funny and, I would like you to change my mind after this suggestion. The boarder has some parts that are difficult to secure the boarder and, we can agree on that. But can we agree that we should have some type of barrier that’s high enough to keep people from jumping over. Because I don’t really agree with just having a barrier that people can climb up and down because that is like something you would see in America warrior or the new titans on nbc. But it’s like in the airports. So I don’t understand how this is different from the checkpoint in the airports
 
Back
Top Bottom