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Is This The End? Trump Suborned Perjury With Michael Cohen's Testimony to Congress

Mycroft said:
What facts do you think I don't like?
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Specifically the facts outlined for the Federal Judge in order for sentencing of Cohen for his role in this conspiracy with Trump and Pecker.
 
hanger4 said:
So the business deal in and of itself was not illegal.

Yes I do care, I believe B Clinton should have been removed for his perjury and subornation of perjury.
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Do you believe the same about Trump?
 
ludin said:
Lying is lyinig it doesn't matter what the lie is.
The fact is they didn't remove clinton from office on perjury they won't do it on trump.

if this is even the case. you are making an assumption of facts not found in evidence.
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That's your strategy to excuse Trump's crimes by making false equivalences to other crimes.

All lies are not equal. A girl lying about her age is not the same as a girl lying about you being the father of her baby. Stealing candy is not the same as stealing a car.

Every rational person understands these distinctions.

Bill Clinton was saved because he lied about an affair. People felt it was understandable and that it his sex life was none of our business. It's not the same with Trump. He instructed Cohen to lie to Congress to obstruct an investigation into his dealings with Russia.

Congress is investigating an issue and the president is conspiring with people to lie to Congress. That's very serious.
 
Wasn't the "But Bill lied too!" defense predictable to everyone?

They're drowning.
 
NebraskaFtball said:
True. But the question is, do they care? Does the GOP really care as long as it means placing their party over country? Does their base really care?
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The base doesn't care, as they only care about pissing off liberals in any way possible.

But the GOP establishment? If they feel Trump becomes enough of a detriment to their political party and agenda, they WILL throw him to the wolves. The tax cuts and supreme court justices have been enough to cover for him now...but there's only so much cover they'll provide for him if they feel he becomes a threat to their party's political power.
 
Yakshi said:
Wasn't the "But Bill lied too!" defense predictable to everyone?

They're drowning.
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Funny thing about Bill is that Trump was probably his biggest supporter during the whole Monica Lewinski fiasco. Funny how things work, eh?
 
This videos seems somewhat appropriate now, no?;)
 
NebraskaFtball said:
Specifically the facts outlined for the Federal Judge in order for sentencing of Cohen for his role in this conspiracy with Trump and Pecker.
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And what facts are those?
 
Suborning a witness to commit perjury is a fairly hefty charge to start. Then there are the repeated twitter threats toward that witnesses' father.
 
NebraskaFtball said:
Suborn appears nowhere in the articles of impeachment that I can find. Will you please link us to it?

And for the record, I supported the impeachment of Clinton on the basis of obstruction of justice. As for the black mark on the Democratic Party, meh. While technically correct, the underlying issues are vastly different. Hardly are these apples-to-apples comparisons.
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From the link I provided;

*(1) On or about December 17, 1997, William Jefferson Clinton corruptly encouraged a witness in a Federal civil rights action brought against him to execute a sworn affidavit in that proceeding that he knew to be perjurious, false and misleading.
(2) On or about December 17, 1997, William Jefferson Clinton corruptly encouraged a witness in a Federal civil rights action brought against him to give perjurious, false and misleading testimony if and when called to testify personally in that proceeding.*

*(5) On January 17, 1998, at his deposition in a Federal civil rights action brought against him, William Jefferson Clinton corruptly allowed his attorney to make false and misleading statements to a Federal judge characterizing an affidavit, in order to prevent questioning deemed relevant by the judge. Such false and misleading statements were subsequently acknowledged by his attorney in a communication to that judge.*

Do you understand what subornation of perjury is ??

18 U.S. Code § 1622 - Subornation of perjury;

*Whoever procures another to commit any perjury is guilty of subornation of perjury*
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
That's your strategy to excuse Trump's crimes by making false equivalences to other crimes.

All lies are not equal. A girl lying about her age is not the same as a girl lying about you being the father of her baby. Stealing candy is not the same as stealing a car.

Every rational person understands these distinctions.

Bill Clinton was saved because he lied about an affair. People felt it was understandable and that it his sex life was none of our business. It's not the same with Trump. He instructed Cohen to lie to Congress to obstruct an investigation into his dealings with Russia.

Congress is investigating an issue and the president is conspiring with people to lie to Congress. That's very serious.
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B Clinton's perjury and subornation of perjury was to deny Paula Jones the right to fair trial.

Clinton was conspiring with people to commit perjury to obstruct an investigation of sexual harassment.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The testimony of a convicted liar (seeking a better sentencing deal?) is not vey strong evidence. If corroborated by other sources and documents then it is much better evidence, yet if the actions being covered up are not in and of themselves criminal (e.g. negotiating a business deal before being elected POTUS) then I don't see conviction (of an impeachable offense) as likely.
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It does beg the question of why lie about it if it was on the up and up.
 
haymarket said:
I love learning new things. Thanks for that Voltaire quote.
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You're welcome. And me, too. I still find and look-up new words & ideas on a regular basis. Something I've done since my early childhood.

And BTW, there's a DP member that has Voltaire's quote in his sig, but I forget who.
 
Puigb said:
The base doesn't care, as they only care about pissing off liberals in any way possible.

But the GOP establishment? If they feel Trump becomes enough of a detriment to their political party and agenda, they WILL throw him to the wolves. The tax cuts and supreme court justices have been enough to cover for him now...but there's only so much cover they'll provide for him if they feel he becomes a threat to their party's political power.
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I'd like to agree. But as more and more come out, and we see the establishment GOP dig their heels in even further in their complicity, it has me questioning if they won't allow themselves to go down with the sinking ship.
 
Mycroft said:
And what facts are those?
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Good gravy man....are you serious? Go back to the first post in this exchange between us regarding Trump being an unindicted co-conspirator in the criminal conspiracy with Cohen and Pecker.
 
NebraskaFtball said:
I'd like to agree. But as more and more come out, and we see the establishment GOP dig their heels in even further in their complicity, it has me questioning if they won't allow themselves to go down with the sinking ship.
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You could be right. What a whole cluster**** this presidency has been, and it's only getting worse. The GOP establishment at this point may be so terrified of their rabid base, that they could end up going down in flames with their corrupt president. Couldn't happen to a nicer group of scumbags as far as I'm concerned. That party needs to be torched and rebuilt from scratch, IMO.
 
OscarLevant said:
The damn that is the support in the Senate and Congress for Trump is beginning to crack.

It is clear now that Trump's days are numbered, and that number is far shorter than two years
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I kinda doubt we're gonna see an impeachment if its as bad as it looks.

Its one thing to I.peach someone for something they did while in office.

Its another one entirely to impeach someone for things they did to get into office.

IF trump colluded then the legitimacy of his presidency, and therefore its fruits, comes into question.

I don't think we've had that situation before. At the presidential level anyway.

I don't think either side really wants to open that can of worms.

I could be wrong, but does a president who is caught cheating his way into office have any authority? Are his signatures on laws and EOs valid?

I don't even think those questions have been asked.

And that asking them would open a can of worms neither politicians nor the donors they serve want opened.

We'll see, I guess.
 
NebraskaFtball said:
Good gravy man....are you serious? Go back to the first post in this exchange between us regarding Trump being an unindicted co-conspirator in the criminal conspiracy with Cohen and Pecker.
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Oh did I forget to mention, apdst's dumb game, making you answer questions and then pretending you didn't ask and asking again, MyCroft taught apbdst what little he knows! This is the PINNACLE of their debate skills! Real cream of the crop stuff for MyCroft!
 
markjs said:
Oh did I forget to mention, apdst's dumb game, making you answer questions and then pretending you didn't ask and asking again, MyCroft taught apbdst what little he knows! This is the PINNACLE of their debate skills! Real cream of the crop stuff for MyCroft!
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It's the same strategy everywhere. Feign ignorance. Pepper questions that they already know the answers to. When they aren't acting world-wise, they assume the role of naive, innocent children.
 
Yakshi said:
It's the same strategy everywhere. Feign ignorance. Pepper questions that they already know the answers to. When they aren't acting world-wise, they assume the role of naive, innocent children.
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It gets old, like AGES ago, like from maybe the third post ya read of theirs (from just the last hour's frantic Trump fellating usually)
 
PoliSciXtina said:
I don’t agree. If it’s that bad, they will have no choice. Even republicans abandoned Nixon at the end. If there is clear and obvious evidence that trump committed a crime, no way in hell can the senate ignore that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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The only way the current GOP Senators will abandon Trump is if they all work an agreed upon deal where Trump can leave with a bogus reason like "health problems" and there will be no split of the party . Otherwise, they are stuck with Trump for as long as he wants them stuck.

What people like McConnell fear more than anything - is first, their own individual careers, and second the preservation of their party. If they believe that Trumps removal would cause a full blown rebellion among the Trumpkins and they would leave the party - they will never ever ever participate in anything which would threaten to do that. Even if it meant watching many of their GOP colleagues go down to defeat in 2020 - they will let that happen believing that they themselves will win re-election. McConnell for example could win his Senate seat so he would be willing to sacrifice hay of his fellow Republicans.

Let us remember that political parties can totally get their ass kicked at the top - Goldwater in 64 and McGovern in 72, but have their party stay intact and come back to win just one election cycle four years later. A terrible defeat at the top can be overcome down the road. But a split party might be finished and the road back from that could be long and hard.
 
markjs said:
It gets old, like AGES ago, like from maybe the third post ya read of theirs (from just the last hour's frantic Trump fellating usually)
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Tomorrow, the same people will be asking the same questions that were answered today.
 
What if...? said:
I kinda doubt we're gonna see an impeachment if its as bad as it looks.

Its one thing to I.peach someone for something they did while in office.

Its another one entirely to impeach someone for things they did to get into office.

IF trump colluded then the legitimacy of his presidency, and therefore its fruits, comes into question.

I don't think we've had that situation before. At the presidential level anyway.

I don't think either side really wants to open that can of worms.

I could be wrong, but does a president who is caught cheating his way into office have any authority? Are his signatures on laws and EOs valid?

I don't even think those questions have been asked.

And that asking them would open a can of worms neither politicians nor the donors they serve want opened.

We'll see, I guess.
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It is sad and unfortunate that the Electoral College failed to fulfill their responsibility as Alexander Hamilton explained it in Federalist Paper 68 when there was lots of questions about Trump and Russia when they met in December of 2016.

Nothing was more to be desired than that every practicable obstacle should be opposed to cabal, intrigue, and corruption. These most deadly adversaries of republican government might naturally have been expected to make their approaches from more than one querter, but chiefly from the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils. How could they better gratify this, than by raising a creature of their own to the chief magistracy of the Union? But the convention have guarded against all danger of this sort, with the most provident and judicious attention.
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We are now living the very nightmare that Hamilton said was the chief threat to out nation.
 
NebraskaFtball said:
Good gravy man....are you serious? Go back to the first post in this exchange between us regarding Trump being an unindicted co-conspirator in the criminal conspiracy with Cohen and Pecker.
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Sorry, those aren't facts.

Look, we'll just keep going around and around. You saying they are facts. Me saying they aren't. Me proving how they are not facts. You saying they are facts. Well, you keep saying what you want. I'm moving on.
 
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