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Majority of Americans do not want The Wall.

<tres post>

Mr Person said:
It's a bit worse. See, he remembers this bit:

KevinKohler said:
Exactly what people knew about the ACA when it get passed. Remember? Had to pass the thing, to find out what's in it. I believe that was a quote...from someone...
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That he would say that shows he never actually bothered to find out what the full quote was. He's only regurgitating the little slice carved out by heavily biased media (a complaint he has no doubt aimed at MSNBC or the like at some point).

The full quote, which is quite different, was:



Imagine an economy where people could follow their aspirations, where they could be entrepreneurial, where they could take risks professionally because personally their families [sic] health care needs are being met. Where they could be self-employed or start a business, not be job-locked in a job because they have health care there, and if they went out on their own it would be unaffordable to them, but especially true, if someone has a child with a pre-existing condition. So when we pass our bill, never again will people be denied coverage because they have a pre-existing condition. We have to do this in partnership, and I wanted to bring [you] up to date on where we see it from here. The final health care legislation that will soon be passed by Congress will deliver successful reform at the local level. It will offer paid for investments that will improve health care services and coverage for millions more Americans. It will make significant investments in innovation, prevention, wellness and offer robust support for public health infrastructure. It will dramatically expand investments into community health centers. That means a dramatic expansion in the number of patients community health centers can see and ultimately healthier communities. Our bill will significantly reduce uncompensated care for hospitals. You’ve heard about the controversies within the bill, the process about the bill, one or the other. But I don’t know if you have heard that it is legislation for the future, not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention–it’s about diet, not diabetes. It’s going to be very, very exciting. But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.

FACT CHECK: Did Nancy Pelosi Say Obamacare Must be Passed to 'Find Out What Is in It'?







Basically, not only was it an irrelevant whattaboutism not made for purposes of comparison, it was simply wrong.
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KevinKohler said:
Sucks when people take snippets of what someone says and uses it out of context, doesn't it?
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There's no way to copy/paste it all without filling most of the next page. I guess I'll just have to hope that anyone who actually cares enough to use ">>" will see that the thread was Kal'Stang's attempt to use opposition to the stupid useless wall to call his "other side" hypocrites by way of a [censored] comparison to passage of the ACA and alleged knowledge about what it would accomplish. You hugged the dishonestly snipped portion of what Pelosi said. Tres was pointing out that the ACA was being sold as one thing and in fact did it to a large extent, and then....

tres borrachos said:
The ACA, for all its faults, actually brought the uninsured rates in the country down to less than 10% of the none-elderly population during Obama's Presidency. Over 20 million Americans got insurance thanks to the ACA. So it had demonstrable returns.

Nobody knows what the wall will deliver.
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KevinKohler said:
Exactly what people knew about the ACA when it get passed. Remember? Had to pass the thing, to find out what's in it. I believe that was a quote...from someone...
Click to expand...

And that's where I came in. Pray don't complain that I didn't copy/paste the rest of the exchange. Anyone using the ">>" arrows can see that you next move was saying you don't support the wall but was pointing out "hypocracy", whereupon tres questioned your motive and noted that the sale of Obamacare really was rooted in CBO numbers, your respond to which was to double down:

KevinKohler said:
no one that voted for ACA read the damn thing, including Obama.
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If people think criticisms of Trump that are made the moment you are called on hypocritically playing The Hypocrisy Game, they can use the "<<" button to read the rest.
 
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MovingPictures said:
I think the major difference is that Democrats didn't use the scorched Earth tactics Republicans are using right now, nor did they threaten to declare national emergencies and such if they didn't get their way.

Nope, the Democrats simply won the required 60 seats to pass their law, so they didn't need the Republicans support.
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The democrats won the right to pass the failed Obamacare in spite of widespread public opposition. We must admit that, just as we must admit that voters who elected Trump to build a wall won the right to have that wall built, in spite of claims of widespread opposition against it, whether those reported claims of widespread opposition are accurate or not.
 
marke said:
The democrats won the right to pass the failed Obamacare in spite of widespread public opposition. We must admit that, just as we must admit that voters who elected Trump to build a wall won the right to have that wall built, in spite of claims of widespread opposition against it, whether those reported claims of widespread opposition are accurate or not.
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No, the conservative public didn't win 60 Senate seats, so they don't have the right to a wall, and so they won't get it.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I've been hearing that refrain from those opposed to it since the whole hubbub started. Mainly from Democrats. It's become a mantra by now.

So, I have a question for those that state this.

Where were you when the majority of American's did not want Obamacare, in particular the mandate?

Of course don't think that the hypocrisy shown by Democrats on this issue is based solely on the Democrats side. Republicans are just as guilty. When the majority of Americans did not want Obamacare Republicans were going around saying the same mantra. When it comes to The Wall Republicans are ignoring that little aspect just as Democrats ignored it for Obamacare.

This just shows one of the many reasons that Party Ideology is a hazard to this country and why I wish to God that Americans would stop voting for Party and start looking at and voting on the Issues.
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Mr Person said:
There's no way to copy/paste it all without filling most of the next page. I guess I'll just have to hope that anyone who actually cares enough to use ">>" will see that the thread was Kal'Stang's attempt to use opposition to the stupid useless wall to call his "other side" hypocrites by way of a [censored] comparison to passage of the ACA and alleged knowledge about what it would accomplish. You hugged the dishonestly snipped portion of what Pelosi said. Tres was pointing out that the ACA was being sold as one thing and in fact did it to a large extent, and then....
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Ironic considering I called out BOTH sides. Also ironic since I don't want the wall built. Keep trying there buddy. ;)
 
MovingPictures said:
No, the conservative public didn't win 60 Senate seats, so they don't have the right to a wall, and so they won't get it.
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Say what? If the democrat party wins 60 seats in the Senate then they can do whatever the hell they want and the American public cannot do squat about it? That is not how the real US government works. Nevertheless, in case some have missed it, democrats did not win 60 seats in the Senate and, in fact, they lost seats in the last election, which means they have the right to shut the hell up.
 
marke said:
The democrats won the right to pass the failed Obamacare in spite of widespread public opposition. We must admit that, just as we must admit that voters who elected Trump to build a wall won the right to have that wall built, in spite of claims of widespread opposition against it, whether those reported claims of widespread opposition are accurate or not.
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Trump's wall doesn't have the votes. There's no "right" to a policy agenda if it doesn't have the votes.
 
Kal'Stang said:
And therein lies the problem. People have become inured to it and no longer question it or hold those that are hypocritical accountable to it.
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My view is that most of our politicians should be replaced. I don't care if they are called out on their hypocrisy because that just isn't good enough.
 
And in honor of Trumps wall

 
Greenbeard said:
Trump's wall doesn't have the votes. There's no "right" to a policy agenda if it doesn't have the votes.
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Obama didn't have the votes to send Iran $1.7 billion in US cash either, but he did it anyway, so why are we saying Trump needs votes to build a wall?
 
Mach said:
Kal, I feel for you man, I can't help it.

Also, you're fishing (trolling is a form of fishing where you just put your line in the water and drag it around)
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NO, that's "trawling"

Trolling on the internet has nothing to to with fishing, metaphorical or otherwise.
 
marke said:
Say what? If the democrat party wins 60 seats in the Senate then they can do whatever the hell they want and the American public cannot do squat about it? That is not how the real US government works. Nevertheless, in case some have missed it, democrats did not win 60 seats in the Senate and, in fact, they lost seats in the last election, which means they have the right to shut the hell up.
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More people voted for Dems in the midterm than any other midterm election, including repubs.

No one is going to shut up, therefore.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I've been hearing that refrain from those opposed to it since the whole hubbub started. Mainly from Democrats. It's become a mantra by now.

So, I have a question for those that state this.

Where were you when the majority of American's did not want Obamacare, in particular the mandate?

Of course don't think that the hypocrisy shown by Democrats on this issue is based solely on the Democrats side. Republicans are just as guilty. When the majority of Americans did not want Obamacare Republicans were going around saying the same mantra. When it comes to The Wall Republicans are ignoring that little aspect just as Democrats ignored it for Obamacare.

This just shows one of the many reasons that Party Ideology is a hazard to this country and why I wish to God that Americans would stop voting for Party and start looking at and voting on the Issues.
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Whataboutism is whataboutist.

But in any case, I actually could be persuaded to back the notion of building more walls, even at the cost of five billion worth...or rather, I WAS in such a mental state where I might have been persuaded, because I am not "anti-wall" so much as I just don't think they're all that great, but sure, go ahead and throw five more billion down and put up some more walls.

That WAS me, until Trump decided that he would be "proud to shut down the government" and he went and took hostages.
Now I've decided he can stick his wall straight up his butt.

Time to housebreak the dog.
 
OscarLevant said:
NO, that's "trawling"

Trolling on the internet has nothing to to with fishing, metaphorical or otherwise.
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False. Trawling is with a net, and industrial as far as I've heard.

Trolling is this:


troll1.jpg

Did it often as a kid.
 
marke said:
Obama didn't have the votes to send Iran $1.7 billion in US cash either, but he did it anyway, so why are we saying Trump needs votes to build a wall?
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We owed them the money, and the reason for cash was that because of sanctions, frozen bank accounts, we cannot send them money any other way.

(NYT)
Before the 1979 revolution, Iran’s shah had paid $400 million for American military goods but, after he was overthrown, they were never delivered. The clerics who seized control demanded the money back, but the United States refused. The additional $1.3 billion is interest accumulated over 35 years. An initial reimbursement was released after the Iran deal was implemented and to help secure the release of American hostages.
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WTFU and turn off Fox & Friends.
 
ecofarm said:
False. Trawling is with a net, and industrial as far as I've heard.

Trolling is this:


View attachment 67248008

Did it often as a kid.
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My uncle had a fairly large tuna trawler.
His average catch looked like this:

OscarTUNAPMY1003SD1.jpg

He was pursued by the producers of Wicked Tuna when it first aired but by that time he was about 75 years old. He was still fishing, though. I think he put the boat up for sale on his 80th birthday or somewhere around that time.
 
OscarLevant said:
Ok. I'm not an angler. I thought it was trawling.
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"Trolling" on the net actually comes from fishing. For the first few months on the Gulf Stream, coming out of Biscayne Bay, I was fed tuna sandwiches for lunch so my sea sickness would result in chum.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
My uncle had a fairly large tuna trawler.
His average catch looked like this:

View attachment 67248010

He was pursued by the producers of Wicked Tuna when it first aired but by that time he was about 75 years old. He was still fishing, though. I think he put the boat up for sale on his 80th birthday or somewhere around that time.
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He caught that in a net? That's a big boat.

I caught tuna around 40 lbs (not a ton like that one) off a 20 foot Sportscraft, trolling not trawling.
 
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OscarLevant said:
More people voted for Dems in the midterm than any other midterm election, including repubs.

No one is going to shut up, therefore.
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Ahem. More people voted for more republicans in the Senate than they did democrats in the Senate so the democrats have the right to shut the hell up, like I said, to use an old democrat argument.
 
OscarLevant said:
We owed them the money, and the reason for cash was that because of sanctions, frozen bank accounts, we cannot send them money any other way.

(NYT)


WTFU and turn off Fox & Friends.
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"We" owed them the money? Obama had no right to put his dirty hands on that money no matter what he thought.
 
ecofarm said:
He caught that in a net? That's a big boat.

I caught tuna around 40 lbs (not a ton like that) off a 20 foot Sportscraft.
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Nope no net. He was actually a pretty famous marlin fisherman, too.
If I shared his name and you were to mention him anywhere on the East Coast, other marlin and tuna guys would know him.
He used to call fish like that "turbocharged footballs".

Ah what the Hell, like I said, he was famous...

"That man didn't need a radio, his voice really traveled."
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:lamo
Truer words were never spoken.
Oscar the Grouch, he was a wonderful guy.

When I was a little kid my first memory of him was him showing up at the back door with a full beard, and I SWEAR to God I thought he was the REAL "Bluto" from the Popeye cartoons.

latest


I was terrified of him till he took me out on the boat. What a blast.
 
KevinKohler said:
According to liberals, most Americans didn't want Trump for president, either.

Fortunately, we don't abide by mob rule.


On that note, however...I am NOT in favor of the wall. Go after the reasons people are willing to come here illegally in the first place. Cure the disease, don't treat the symptoms.
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That's a fact. Of the people that actually voted, most voted for Hillary. Meaning only a small fraction of Americans voted for Donald and he got a minority even among voters. You're not entitled to your own facts.
 
ecofarm said:
"Trolling" on the net actually comes from fishing. For the first few months on the Gulf Stream, coming out of Biscayne Bay, I was fed tuna sandwiches for lunch so my sea sickness would result in chum.
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ROFLMAO, the shortcut was if your skipper forced you to eat a chum sandwich.
 
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