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Is there a Senate rule to get around McConnell?

Middle_Ground

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We now have the longest government shutdown in our history.
No one knows what tha president wants. The house has been voting all week went from 5 Republicans voting with Democrats to 12 to actually fund 6 agencies. I know fox news has been saying all week that the people out of work or working without pay are all beurocrat paper pushers and maybe some are like IRS workers but come on air traffic controllers, TSA workers, some border patrol, park rangers, food inspectors those are all things we need.... right?
Is there some arcane Senate rule that allows a majority to bring bills to a vote without the Senate leader?
I'm truly worried about my fellow Americans safety. I'm worried about all the combat veterans that got some stability by working for the federal government now losing that stability and seeing an suicide rate increase.
At this point I don't care what Trump says or does. The house and the Senate have the votes to over ride him.
Do your ****ing job!
 
We now have the longest government shutdown in our history.
No one knows what tha president wants. The house has been voting all week went from 5 Republicans voting with Democrats to 12 to actually fund 6 agencies. I know fox news has been saying all week that the people out of work or working without pay are all beurocrat paper pushers and maybe some are like IRS workers but come on air traffic controllers, TSA workers, some border patrol, park rangers, food inspectors those are all things we need.... right?
Is there some arcane Senate rule that allows a majority to bring bills to a vote without the Senate leader?
I'm truly worried about my fellow Americans safety. I'm worried about all the combat veterans that got some stability by working for the federal government now losing that stability and seeing an suicide rate increase.
At this point I don't care what Trump says or does. The house and the Senate have the votes to over ride him.
Do your ****ing job!

Yes there is, it is called "Cloture."

I've posted this before:

Cloture Definition: How to Break a Filibuster Using the U.S. Senate Rulebook
https://www.thoughtco.com/the-definition-of-cloture-3367943

You simply need 60 votes. Of course the Republicans have 53 votes to the Dem's 47....

There is also the "Nuclear Option":

The nuclear option is a parliamentary procedure that allows the United States Senate to override a rule – specifically the 60-vote rule to close debate – by a simple majority of 51 votes...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option

However there is an "unwritten agreement" to limit this to Presidential appointments. To use it in this current effort would then allow the use for ANY situation by the minority to overcome what the majority oppose.
 
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I do believe that the president is trying to drive the Congress to do their ****ing job.
 
We now have the longest government shutdown in our history.
No one knows what tha president wants. The house has been voting all week went from 5 Republicans voting with Democrats to 12 to actually fund 6 agencies. I know fox news has been saying all week that the people out of work or working without pay are all beurocrat paper pushers and maybe some are like IRS workers but come on air traffic controllers, TSA workers, some border patrol, park rangers, food inspectors those are all things we need.... right?
Is there some arcane Senate rule that allows a majority to bring bills to a vote without the Senate leader?
I'm truly worried about my fellow Americans safety. I'm worried about all the combat veterans that got some stability by working for the federal government now losing that stability and seeing an suicide rate increase.
At this point I don't care what Trump says or does. The house and the Senate have the votes to over ride him.
Do your ****ing job!

Seriously?

EVERYONE knows what the President wants. He has been very clear about that.

Anyway. No. There isn't some "arcane Senate rule". If there were, the Senate Republicans would have used it many times when Dingy Harry was Senate Leader.
 
Yes there is, it is called "Cloture."

You are right, but very few GOPers in the Senate want to try and go around both McConnell and Trump and they need what 60 or maybe 67 votes to have cloture. It will never happen. So two people have the power to keep this government shut down. Even Gopers in the House and the Senate say there are enough votes in both to send the bills to the President, but McConnell will not do so as it would make Trump to either sign or veto the bill. Either of those actions will hurt Trump's ability to get reelected. If he signs, he loses his base. If he veto's he loses the independents and the Dems who voted for him in 2016.
 
Yes there is, it is called "Cloture."

I've posted this before:

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-definition-of-cloture-3367943

You simply need 60 votes. Of course the Republicans have 53 votes to the Dem's 47....

There is also the "Nuclear Option":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option

However there is an "unwritten agreement" to limit this to Presidential appointments. To use it in this current effort would then allow the use for ANY situation by the minority to overcome what the majority oppose.

A bill has to be brought to the floor for debate/vote before it can be filibustered or before cloture can be invoked. That is not the case here, since McConnell refuses to bring the House bills before the Senate.

This refusal is the same tactic that Harry Reid used so many times during the Obama days. It was quite effective then and it is effective now. The only real difference is that Reid didn't bother to give a reason for not bringing bills before the Senate. McConnell has given his reason.
 
A bill has to be brought to the floor for debate/vote before it can be filibustered or before cloture can be invoked. That is not the case here, since McConnell refuses to bring the House bills before the Senate.

This refusal is the same tactic that Harry Reid used so many times during the Obama days. It was quite effective then and it is effective now. The only real difference is that Reid didn't bother to give a reason for not bringing bills before the Senate. McConnell has given his reason.

Yes, I forgot that part. My mistake. :3oops:
 
A bill has to be brought to the floor for debate/vote before it can be filibustered or before cloture can be invoked. That is not the case here, since McConnell refuses to bring the House bills before the Senate.

This refusal is the same tactic that Harry Reid used so many times during the Obama days. It was quite effective then and it is effective now. The only real difference is that Reid didn't bother to give a reason for not bringing bills before the Senate. McConnell has given his reason.

The mere fact that McConnell is giving reasons for not doing so makes the present Senate more transparent and accountable than during dingy Harry Reid leadership.
 
Yes there is, it is called "Cloture."

I've posted this before:

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-definition-of-cloture-3367943

You simply need 60 votes. Of course the Republicans have 53 votes to the Dem's 47....

There is also the "Nuclear Option":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option

However there is an "unwritten agreement" to limit this to Presidential appointments. To use it in this current effort would then allow the use for ANY situation by the minority to overcome what the majority oppose.
As Mycroft pointed out, the Majority leader of the Senate sets the agenda. He/she can prevent a bill from ever being brought to the floor for debate, and so cloture never comes into play.
 
The mere fact that McConnell is giving reasons for not doing so makes the present Senate more transparent and accountable than during dingy Harry Reid leadership.

Transparent and accountable? The House's legislation easily has the votes for passage in the Senate, it probably has enough votes for a veto override. Which is why McConnell is desperate to keep it off the floor.
 
The mere fact that McConnell is giving reasons for not doing so makes the present Senate more transparent and accountable than during dingy Harry Reid leadership.
:lamo

His "reason" that the president won't sign the bill is a disgraceful cop-out, he's using in order to get of his constitutional duty. The Congress is a co-equal branch of government, which can override a presidents agenda if it so wishes, and is exactly why the founders made that option available to Congress.

Being the president's lackey is not the Leader of the Senate's job, his job is to be effective in making sure Congress serves the people.

Reid refusing to allow a vote on a floor vote was not unprecedented. Other Majority Leaders have done so, but on bills that they knew had nowhere near enought votes to pass, and were thus a waste of time. This the exact opposite of that and is disgracing the Senate.
 
Yes there is, it is called "Cloture."

I've posted this before:

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-definition-of-cloture-3367943

You simply need 60 votes. Of course the Republicans have 53 votes to the Dem's 47....

There is also the "Nuclear Option":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option

However there is an "unwritten agreement" to limit this to Presidential appointments. To use it in this current effort would then allow the use for ANY situation by the minority to overcome what the majority oppose.

Isn't cloture for when the bill is already brought to the floor?
Right now nothing is being presented for a vote of any kind.
 
Transparent and accountable? The House's legislation easily has the votes for passage in the Senate, it probably has enough votes for a veto override. Which is why McConnell is desperate to keep it off the floor.

:lamo

His "reason" that the president won't sign the bill is a disgraceful cop-out, he's using in order to get of his constitutional duty. The Congress is a co-equal branch of government, which can override a presidents agenda if it so wishes, and is exactly why the founders made that option available to Congress.

Being the president's lackey is not the Leader of the Senate's job, his job is to be effective in making sure Congress serves the people.

Reid refusing to allow a vote on a floor vote was not unprecedented. Other Majority Leaders have done so, but on bills that they knew had nowhere near enought votes to pass, and were thus a waste of time. This the exact opposite of that and is disgracing the Senate.

It's not going your way and you don't like it. Got it. But that happens to everyone. Republicans didn't like it when Reid did it too. :shrug:
 
Yes there is, it is called "Cloture."

I've posted this before:

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-definition-of-cloture-3367943

You simply need 60 votes. Of course the Republicans have 53 votes to the Dem's 47....

There is also the "Nuclear Option":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option

However there is an "unwritten agreement" to limit this to Presidential appointments. To use it in this current effort would then allow the use for ANY situation by the minority to overcome what the majority oppose.

Cloture IMO is not in play at this point. A "Motion to Proceed" would be the means to buck McConnell which is what is required at this point. A Cloture vote might come at some point but that cart is way before the horse. Without a successful "Motion to Proceed" vote, McConnell can stonewall the process. Yes, it would only take a few GOP Senators to vote with a solid Dem block to pass a Motion to Proceed. But even if all the Dems voted as a block it would take 6 Republicans to vote with them to pass a Motion to Proceed. At the point where McConnell knew those 6 votes would go against him he would likely bring the Bill to the floor himself as opposed to suffering the embarrassment of having lost control of his caucus.
 
I do believe that the president is trying to drive the Congress to do their ****ing job.

The Senate's job is not capitulate to the whims of the president. They unanimously passed legislation to avoid the shutdown which means they had the votes to override Trump's veto. The Senate is the problem here.
 
It's not going your way and you don't like it. Got it. But that happens to everyone. Republicans didn't like it when Reid did it too. :shrug:

When did Reid shut the government down and block votes on bills to re-open it with majority support?

I don't recall Reid throwing hundreds of thousands out of work, halting food inspections, disrupting air travel, delaying tax refunds, threatening those getting food assistance, and so on. If that's "your way" maybe re-examine your ideology.
 
We now have the longest government shutdown in our history.
No one knows what tha president wants. The house has been voting all week went from 5 Republicans voting with Democrats to 12 to actually fund 6 agencies. I know fox news has been saying all week that the people out of work or working without pay are all beurocrat paper pushers and maybe some are like IRS workers but come on air traffic controllers, TSA workers, some border patrol, park rangers, food inspectors those are all things we need.... right?
Is there some arcane Senate rule that allows a majority to bring bills to a vote without the Senate leader?
I'm truly worried about my fellow Americans safety. I'm worried about all the combat veterans that got some stability by working for the federal government now losing that stability and seeing an suicide rate increase.
At this point I don't care what Trump says or does. The house and the Senate have the votes to over ride him.
Do your ****ing job!

I'm concerned about all United States citizens. That's why we need to secure the border.
 
Well then I guess this will continue infinitum.
Sad situation for many. I heard on some show or the radio that something like 3 million people were effected by this and the cost to taxpayers by Monday would be over 5billion not including the lawsuits filed.
Oh well guess the wall is more important than actual citizens.
 
Transparent and accountable? The House's legislation easily has the votes for passage in the Senate, it probably has enough votes for a veto override. Which is why McConnell is desperate to keep it off the floor.

Yes. Transparent and accountable.

The reason you know about and can object to McConnell's reason for not bringing those House bills to the Senate floor is BECAUSE he has been totally open about his reasoning...transparent. He is also subject to support or objection from the American people for his reason...accountable.
 
Cloture IMO is not in play at this point. A "Motion to Proceed" would be the means to buck McConnell which is what is required at this point. A Cloture vote might come at some point but that cart is way before the horse. Without a successful "Motion to Proceed" vote, McConnell can stonewall the process. Yes, it would only take a few GOP Senators to vote with a solid Dem block to pass a Motion to Proceed. But even if all the Dems voted as a block it would take 6 Republicans to vote with them to pass a Motion to Proceed. At the point where McConnell knew those 6 votes would go against him he would likely bring the Bill to the floor himself as opposed to suffering the embarrassment of having lost control of his caucus.

Okay so there is a way to get these Bill's to the floor of the senate....motion to proceed. I'm going to see if I can find some more info on this. Thanks
 
Well then I guess this will continue infinitum.
Sad situation for many. I heard on some show or the radio that something like 3 million people were effected by this and the cost to taxpayers by Monday would be over 5billion not including the lawsuits filed.
Oh well guess the wall is more important than actual citizens.

It does appear this will continue for quite some time. But I disagree with your last statement. I think the wall is important FOR actual citizens. For their safety and security.
 
When did Reid shut the government down and block votes on bills to re-open it with majority support?

I don't recall Reid throwing hundreds of thousands out of work, halting food inspections, disrupting air travel, delaying tax refunds, threatening those getting food assistance, and so on. If that's "your way" maybe re-examine your ideology.

Moved goal posts, were talking about preventing legislation from coming to the floor of the Senate for debate, amendment and cloture.
 
Moved goal posts, were talking about preventing legislation from coming to the floor of the Senate for debate, amendment and cloture.

We're talking about massively disrupting the American economy with a prolonged government shutdown. What happened to "transparency and accountability"? Own up to the GOP's disastrous leadership. Reid never screwed the pooch like this.
 
Specifically the Majority Leader. Trump and McConnell are the only ones keeping the shutdown going.

Absolutely, but McConnell and the rest of the Republicans in the Senate bear more responsibility because they do have the votes to override a veto. This does not depend on Trump changing his mind.
 
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