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[W:270]President Trump makes a compelling argument

Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

What the thread is about has already been stated in the thread op: Does "DJT … make a compelling case for border enforcements;/barriers/wall/steel slats."
And the "compelling case" was about the safety of Americans. As I have said.
Whether or not you think the argument for more border security because of criminal illegals is persuasive, your argument over the need to support gun control in not Germaine - one could easily agree with both arguments OR disagree with both, or only agree with one of the two arguments.
You need to actually read what I have said in this thread. It will help. Thank you.
Like what? We have 300 million firearms. They aren't going anywhere nor can they be confiscated. We CAN cut people crossing the border to a trickle. We CAN put programs in place to deal with visa overstays and deport those people. We CAN deport every illegal alien who commits a felony. We CAN deport every person who came here illegally after a certain date. The right to own firearms is in the Constitution. It's one of the benefits of citizenship. There is no right to sneak in here illegally. All we lack is political will.

That's nice, thank you for sharing.
Yes, I used it
So then it was dishonest to claim I was running away from my arguments when you were the one who started that.

Goodness, at least remember your own words.
You have no compunctions against lying.
I have not lied once. You, however, have repeatedly posted things which are flatly untrue.

This thread is about immigration control
It is about the safety of Americans. As I've said. Stop misrepresenting the "compelling argument" argument made in the OP.

If you in fact ever believe I have made a personal attack against you
You literally just called me a liar. :doh

hit the triangle, you know what to do.
Uhh, I don't have to report you to point out you have repeatedly attacked me personally. I cannot believe I have to state the obvious.

Attempting to use it here is just another scumbag tactic on your part.
And now you are calling me a scumbag. Like I said, personal attacks.

At the end of the day, you know I am correct. The "compelling argument" was about the safety of Americans, but if that TRULY was a compelling argument, then gun violence would be a higher priority for those who want the wall. But it's not, which exposes the "compelling argument" as the sham that it is.

This isn't hard to understand.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

And the "compelling case" was about the safety of Americans. As I have said.
You need to actually read what I have said in this thread. It will help. Thank you.

Well then, we will eagerly wait to read your discussion of the safety of Americans in regards to vaccines, cancer, smog, hitch-hiking, sniffing glue, house fires, and airplane crashes and how you found a nexus to the compelling case of border barriers against illegal immigrants.

Tell us when you start feeling foolish...
 
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Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

And the "compelling case" was about the safety of Americans. As I have said.
You need to actually read what I have said in this thread. It will help. Thank you.

The compelling case was in regards to immigration and how it relates to the safety of Americans. You seem to think we are supposed to believe you do not understand this.


That's nice, thank you for sharing.
So then it was dishonest to claim I was running away from my arguments when you were the one who started that.

You lied and made it seem as though I connected the word unfettered with gun ownership when you did so.

Goodness, at least remember your own words.
I have not lied once. You, however, have repeatedly posted things which are flatly untrue.

I just showed how you did.

It is about the safety of Americans. As I've said. Stop misrepresenting the "compelling argument" argument made in the OP.

The argument in the OP is in regards to immigration as a safety issue to Americans.

You literally just called me a liar. :doh

I literally said "You have no compunctions against lying."

That is not calling you a liar, even though you have lied, yet again.

Uhh, I don't have to report you to point out you have repeatedly attacked me personally. I cannot believe I have to state the obvious.

You have to report me to prove I am attacking you personally by the rules of the forum. You are well aware I am not doing so, so you are, again, lying.

And now you are calling me a scumbag. Like I said, personal attacks.

Nope, I said scumbag tactics. I didn't call you a scumbag. Lying yet again...

At the end of the day, you know I am correct. The "compelling argument" was about the safety of Americans, but if that TRULY was a compelling argument, then gun violence would be a higher priority for those who want the wall. But it's not, which exposes the "compelling argument" as the sham that it is.

At the end of the day you have no wish to examine whether Trump's proposal was going to have any impact on the safety of Americans which is why you have made every effort possible to derail this thread into an argument about gun control. The argument to control our nation's borders versus the argument of violating the rights of citizens isn't a compelling comparison.

This isn't hard to understand.

You are right, your inability to discuss the actual topic isn't hard to understand at all.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Yes, I used it to describe our immigration issue not gun ownership, this sort of dishonest distortion is why I don't like to engage with you on any level. You have no compunctions against lying.

This thread is about immigration control, specifically the wall. Perhaps you don't know what the **** you are doing.

If you in fact ever believe I have made a personal attack against you, hit the triangle, you know what to do. Attempting to use it here is just another scumbag tactic on your part.

I tend to be more generous. Either he is lying to us or himself, or he is unable to understand the argument being discussed. For example, he may not be able to comprehend that "a compelling case" for any specific argument is determined by evidence and a logically consistent and coherent narrative. If he can't get tis, then he would have no choice but to resort to questioning the motivations or sincerity of the person conveying the argument (Trump) because that person is NOT talking about his favorite subject of gun control.

So yes, most of us understand the op is not general; it is not about the American people's safety from just any threat, or anything to do with gun control - it is about the specific threat to the safety of the American people by illegals AND the inference that more physical barriers are needed to prevent their entry.

The OP writer knows this, we know this, most people in the thread knows this. Why SFox does not get it, or pretends to not get it, remains a mystery.
 
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Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Well then, we will eagerly wait to read your discussion of the safety of Americans in regards to vaccines, cancer, smog, hitch-hiking, sniffing glue, house fires, and airplane crashes and how you found a nexus to the compelling case of border barriers against illegal immigrants.

Tell us when you start feeling foolish...
From this post, it is incredibly obvious you have not bothered to read my posts or understand the argument I was making. I am not surprised. If you feel you want to have an actual honest discussion, figure what my point is and then get back to me.
The compelling case was in regards to immigration
The "compelling case" for a wall was the safety of Americans. If you cannot even be honest about that, then there's no use in continuing.

You can either honestly address my posts and arguments or you can continue doing what you've been doing. Your choice.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

From this post, it is incredibly obvious you have not bothered to read my posts or understand the argument I was making. I am not surprised. If you feel you want to have an actual honest discussion, figure what my point is and then get back to me.
The "compelling case" for a wall was the safety of Americans. If you cannot even be honest about that, then there's no use in continuing.

You can either honestly address my posts and arguments or you can continue doing what you've been doing. Your choice.
This type of tactic is why you lose arguments, you know the overriding issue is the impact illegal immigration has on the safety of Americans. Knowing that to be a fail argument, you endlessly divert down this blind alley.

You want dishonest? That's dishonest.

Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

This type of tactic is why you lose arguments, you know the overriding issue is the impact illegal immigration has on the safety of Americans.
But that is not your concern, because if it was (as I've said) then people who believe politically as you would be loudly protesting gun violence in this country (since 11,000 American deaths is much greater than 539). But people like you don't want to talk about reducing gun violence in any meaningful way so it is clear your intentions of a wall have little to do with safety of Americans.

I have said this repeatedly. How is it you still don't understand? Or, perhaps more accurately, why do you still pretend like you don't understand?

Knowing that to be a fail argument, you endlessly divert down this blind alley.
Your inability to demonstrate an understanding of my argument is a you problem.

You want dishonest?
No, I'd LOVE for you to honestly address my point. If that were to happen, I'd be quite happy. But it happening is up to you.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

But that is not your concern, because if it was (as I've said) then people who believe politically as you would be loudly protesting gun violence in this country (since 11,000 American deaths is much greater than 539). But people like you don't want to talk about reducing gun violence in any meaningful way so it is clear your intentions of a wall have little to do with safety of Americans.

Of course, why let little things like the constitution get in the way of passing something to violate the rights of citizens and then we have myopic partisan ****show positions that say comparing the two is a valid talking point. Protect the border or violate the right to self defense...

I have said this repeatedly. How is it you still don't understand? Or, perhaps more accurately, why do you still pretend like you don't understand?

I understand perfectly, your bull**** isn't valid.

Your inability to demonstrate an understanding of my argument is a you problem.

Your inability to construct a valid argument is a you problem.

No, I'd LOVE for you to honestly address my point. If that were to happen, I'd be quite happy. But it happening is up to you.

I did address your point and nothing we can pass that will be ruled constitutional is going to make an appreciable dent in gun violence. Only by violating the rights of law abiding citizens can that be accomplished. Fortunately for us peons the Democratic party is fully prepared to violate the **** out of our right to keep and bear arms.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Of course, why let little things like the constitution get in the way
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the Constitution and its ability to be altered?

of passing something to violate the rights of citizens
Nothing in the Constitution says anything about background checks or databases.

Protect the border or violate the right to self defense...
Pretty certain it is about the safety of Americans, but only one situation we're discussing truly is an emergency. The other is just thinly veiled racism.

I understand perfectly
Then why do you consistently demonstrate a lack of understanding? Is it intentional?

Your inability to construct a valid argument is a you problem.
My argument is sound. But since you still seem to think it is about guns, it is clear you don't understand it.

I did address your point
Not really, as I've explained and you've demonstrated multiple times.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the Constitution and its ability to be altered?

Current polling on the question indicates only 1/3rd of voters even want to alter the 2nd amendment.
Nothing in the Constitution says anything about background checks or databases.
False, permanent databases on those exercising their 2nd amendment rights is a violation of those rights via illegal search and seizures because government is constrained from keeping records on citizens without due cause.

Pretty certain it is about the safety of Americans, but only one situation we're discussing truly is an emergency. The other is just thinly veiled racism.

It is about a Presidential proposal regarding immigration and how to curtail it or control it. There it is, toss the race card, much easier than making an argument.

Then why do you consistently demonstrate a lack of understanding? Is it intentional?

I know a red herring when I see one.

My argument is sound. But since you still seem to think it is about guns, it is clear you don't understand it.

You want to keep your so called argument in the area of safety to keep yourself from getting dinged.

Not really, as I've explained and you've demonstrated multiple times.

Tangential bull**** aside, explain why you feel a wall will fail.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

This type of tactic is why you lose arguments, you know the overriding issue is the impact illegal immigration has on the safety of Americans.

But cities with more undocumented immigrants have less crime. So, what's the argument?

Trump's argument is irrational because he only points to various examples of criminal acts committed by undocumented immigrants. That doesn't do anything to prove that undocumented immigrants are more prone to violence than regular citizens.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

But that is not your concern, because if it was (as I've said) then people who believe politically as you would be loudly protesting gun violence in this country (since 11,000 American deaths is much greater than 539). But people like you don't want to talk about reducing gun violence in any meaningful way so it is clear your intentions of a wall have little to do with safety of Americans.

I have said this repeatedly. How is it you still don't understand? Or, perhaps more accurately, why do you still pretend like you don't understand? Your inability to demonstrate an understanding of my argument is a you problem.

I'm sure he understands your opinion, as do I, but as has been pointed out to you in previous posts your argument on the sincerity of people's advocacy of a wall is IRRELEVANT to the question posed. The truth of anyone's argument is not a matter of trust in someone's motivations, or if they give a hoot over gun control, the truth of an argument exists independently of the speaker and their motivation.

Among the minimally educated this is not a novel concept; in fact, they teach it in High School debate forensics. If you wish to attack the argument, you do not attack those making the case for their alleged insincere motivation OR because they do not wish to discuss your favorite hobby horse.

And, by the way, the case for a wall/fence/ security zone across the border is not only compelling, it is conclusive - no matter how many times you want to talk about gun control.
 
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Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

And, by the way, the case for a wall/fence/ security zone across the border is not only compelling, it is conclusive

not its not LMAO it fails at every turn and is destroyed by facts.

everybody honest, educated and objective sees that.

if a person is HONESTLY concerned about illegal immigrants and immigration and thinks is a national emergence focusing on a border wall is one of the most "large scale", retarded, unintelligent and counterproductive wastes of time they can pick. Its a complete joke and totally laughable. Its a political ploy that as already failed.

the majority of immigrants do not come here via illegal secret border crossings. the majority come here by over staying their legal stays and or passage through LEGAL ports via air land or see by defraudation. Focusing on a wall is like like putting a bandaid on a skinned knee when you has two bullet wounds a stab wound and cancer. Its beyond stupid.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

not its not LMAO it fails at every turn and is destroyed by facts.

everybody honest, educated and objective sees that.

if a person is HONESTLY concerned about illegal immigrants and immigration and thinks is a national emergence focusing on a border wall is one of the most "large scale", retarded, unintelligent and counterproductive wastes of time they can pick. Its a complete joke and totally laughable. Its a political ploy that as already failed.

the majority of immigrants do not come here via illegal secret border crossings. the majority come here by over staying their legal stays and or passage through LEGAL ports via air land or see by defraudation. Focusing on a wall is like like putting a bandaid on a skinned knee when you has two bullet wounds a stab wound and cancer. Its beyond stupid.

Now that we have your stupid, worthless opinion, go get some facts to back it up.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Now that we have your stupid, worthless opinion, go get some facts to back it up.
LMAO awesome!

translation: you cant support your claim ("not only compelling, it is conclusive") or refute the facts I stated about how illegals come her
Please let me know when you can, thanks!
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

LMAO awesome!

translation: you cant support your claim ("not only compelling, it is conclusive") or refute the facts I stated about how illegals come her
Please let me know when you can, thanks!

Your counter claim is lacking any support. My claim has already been supported by the accounts from El Paso. Peddle your partisan pile of propaganda elsewhere.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Put up a wall.

It will not appreciably reduce violent crime in America.

Show me how I am wrong.

Even if a wall does not reduce crime inside America, it will definitely cause problems for those wanting to come into America illegally. That is basic common sense.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Even if a wall does not reduce crime inside America, it will definitely cause problems for those wanting to come into America illegally. That is basic common sense.

So spend billions of tax payers dollars so we can "cause problems" for some people (who are committing misdemeanors)?

:2razz:
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Just to be clear, when do the numbers matter to you? How many victims do we need for it to "count"?

Maybe as many mass shooting victims as it takes to make it count. No other numbers support the numbers you are posting. I'm also pretty sure no wall has ever been built that wasn't eventually breached. If you can find an example please enlighten all of us.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Can't answer the question huh?

This topic is about using statistics to justify action. If 539 murders is enough to justify action, why isn't over 11,000?

Like I said, proponents of gun control have been asking the same question of people like you for years. Interesting how when it comes to preventing the murder of children, those who believe politically similarly to you give a big yawn, yet when it comes to keeping brown skinned people out of the country, suddenly no number is small enough to use for purposes of fear mongering.
Because owning a gun is a right and living in the US as a non citizen is not. You might as well ask when we’re going to ban cooking oil since high blood pressure kills more then illegal aliens. If it weren’t guns you’d just move to the next excuse on the list.

It’s 100% irrelevant anyway
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

So spend billions of tax payers dollars so we can "cause problems" for some people (who are committing misdemeanors)?

:2razz:

We can spend billions on a wall to slow illegal immigration or we can spend billions on feeding, clothing, housing and medicating millions of illegal immigrants once they get here. Americans want illegal immigration stopped, no matter what democrats are now claiming as opposed to what they said before Trump got elected.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

We can spend billions on a wall to slow illegal immigration or we can spend billions on feeding, clothing, housing and medicating millions of illegal immigrants once they get here. Americans want illegal immigration stopped, no matter what democrats are now claiming as opposed to what they said before Trump got elected.

I do not think they've changed their minds. I think they don't want a wall. I would personally be open to some additional barriers, but I have seen zero details about the proposal. So as a taxpayer, I do not want my money going towards something that is nothing more than a vague concept at this point.

Tell your politicians to come up with a plan we can study, then we'll see if they can have some money for it.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Because owning a gun is a right and living in the US as a non citizen is not. You might as well ask when we’re going to ban cooking oil since high blood pressure kills more then illegal aliens. If it weren’t guns you’d just move to the next excuse on the list.

It’s 100% irrelevant anyway
It never ceases to amaze me how often people jump into a discussion when they have no idea what the point is. Please re-read my posts in this thread so you can understand why this post of yours was worthless to me. Thanks!
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

I do not think they've changed their minds. I think they don't want a wall. I would personally be open to some additional barriers, but I have seen zero details about the proposal. So as a taxpayer, I do not want my money going towards something that is nothing more than a vague concept at this point.

Tell your politicians to come up with a plan we can study, then we'll see if they can have some money for it.

While the bobble heads are flipping Trump off in the White House they never seem to be prepared to offer a reasonable alternative to a wall that border control agents can accept.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Your counter claim is lacking any support. My claim has already been supported by the accounts from El Paso. Peddle your partisan pile of propaganda elsewhere.

Aaaaaand another dodge LMAO thats what I thought
translation: you cant support your claim ("not only compelling, it is conclusive") or refute the facts I stated about how illegals come her
Please let me know when you can, thanks!
 
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