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[W:270]President Trump makes a compelling argument

Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Nope, it is supposedly about the safety of Americans. That has been the argument put forth by Trump and his supporters.

So, again, if 539 murders justifies billions in spending on something that so many agree won't work, then shouldn't 11,000 murders receive even more attention? Why is keeping the brown people out more important than keeping our school children safe?
No matter how many times you want to avoid the question, it is 100% on topic, according to the argument put forth by Trump, as stated in the OP. Your refusal to reply speaks volumes.
Total red herring. Got nothing to do with "brown" or what ever other false flags you can wave. WE have legal procedures for people who want to immigrate to the US. We don't have legal procedures for people who want to kill other people; we DO, however, have laws that attempt to keep guns out of the hands of people wanting to shoot other people.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Evidence that border walls work in border towns, kind of why I gave you some...

You admitted the evidence was anecdotal. Not sure why you did that beyond maybe feeling guilty about presenting it...
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

I am discussing this one. I already explained to you how. Either respond honestly or stop posting dishonest responses. Either way is good with me.

This is supposedly about the safety of Americans. That's what I'm discussing. I'm using the statistics provided in the OP to make my argument. You won't reply for reasons we both understand well.

Again, you can respond to my question honestly or you can stop posting dishonest responses. Either way would work for me.

Yeahhhh, NOPE.

I am responding honestly, if you want to come down to gun control forum and get your head handed verbally, be my guest. I will not make this into a full on gun control topic, maybe you should stop trying to make it into one and ask yourself why that is...
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

You admitted the evidence was anecdotal. Not sure why you did that beyond maybe feeling guilty about presenting it...

Anecdotal evidence is still evidence. Maybe you could try to discuss why it is or isn't a good thing crime plummeted in El Paso after they built a wall...
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

No, you are not discussing the topic of the thread.
Yes, I am. I've already explained this. Please stop posting lies.
Total red herring.
It's really not, it's exposing the hypocrisy of this obviously insincere argument about safety.

The same people who shrug their shoulders when 20 first graders are murdered in their classroom, when 11,000 Americans die from guns in a year, suddenly are so very concerned about 539 murders. It's a lie. It's not about the crime, it's about some other factor. And since the same people chanting for a wall seem totally cool with immigration from countries where the people look like them, it sure does seem as if skin color has a lot to do with it.

It's not a red herring, one just has to be intelligent enough to understand the point of the argument. If 539 murders really was a "compelling argument", as put forth by several in this thread, then 11,000 murders should be as well. But, for those people who want to talk about 539 murders, the 11,000 is a number with which they seem unconcerned.

It's not a red herring, it's about pointing out insincerity and hypocrisy.
I am responding honestly
Nope. Every time you claim my post is not on topic, it is not honest.

Like I said, intellectual honesty is difficult for some people.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Yes, I am. I've already explained this. Please stop posting lies.
It's really not, it's exposing the hypocrisy of this obviously insincere argument about safety.

The same people who shrug their shoulders when 20 first graders are murdered in their classroom, when 11,000 Americans die from guns in a year, suddenly are so very concerned about 539 murders. It's a lie. It's not about the crime, it's about some other factor. And since the same people chanting for a wall seem totally cool with immigration from countries where the people look like them, it sure does seem as if skin color has a lot to do with it.

It's not a red herring, one just has to be intelligent enough to understand the point of the argument. If 539 murders really was a "compelling argument", as put forth by several in this thread, then 11,000 murders should be as well. But, for those people who want to talk about 539 murders, the 11,000 is a number with which they seem unconcerned.

It's not a red herring, it's about pointing out insincerity and hypocrisy.
Nope. Every time you claim my post is not on topic, it is not honest.

Like I said, intellectual honesty is difficult for some people.
A whole school of red herring. Not to mention a few appeals to emotion, false equivalencies, and a touch of personal attacks. Well done - a virtual smorgasbord of logical fallacies. Well done.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Yes, I am. I've already explained this. Please stop posting lies.
It's really not, it's exposing the hypocrisy of this obviously insincere argument about safety.

The same people who shrug their shoulders when 20 first graders are murdered in their classroom, when 11,000 Americans die from guns in a year, suddenly are so very concerned about 539 murders. It's a lie. It's not about the crime, it's about some other factor. And since the same people chanting for a wall seem totally cool with immigration from countries where the people look like them, it sure does seem as if skin color has a lot to do with it.

It's not a red herring, one just has to be intelligent enough to understand the point of the argument. If 539 murders really was a "compelling argument", as put forth by several in this thread, then 11,000 murders should be as well. But, for those people who want to talk about 539 murders, the 11,000 is a number with which they seem unconcerned.

It's not a red herring, it's about pointing out insincerity and hypocrisy.
Nope. Every time you claim my post is not on topic, it is not honest.

Like I said, intellectual honesty is difficult for some people.

Are you making the claim I am dishonest? Because it sure seems that way...
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Anecdotal evidence is still evidence. Maybe you could try to discuss why it is or isn't a good thing crime plummeted in El Paso after they built a wall...

So the only thing they did was build a wall, and nothing else, and then magic happened?
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

So the only thing they did was build a wall, and nothing else, and then magic happened?

I mean its really predictable, but did you even read it?
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

A whole school of red herring.
If you don't understand fallacies, don't accuse them. Just because you don't want to talk about something doesn't make it a red herring. I am discussing this very topic which, by the very definition of a red herring, means my statement is not.

Either reply honestly or not. Your choice. My argument is quite simple, which is the argument put forth by the OP is insincere and hypocritical. To make that argument, I provide context.

Just because you cannot refute the validity of my argument, don't go around falsely accusing fallacies you clearly do not understand.
Are you making the claim I am dishonest?
:lol:

Once again, you refuse to respond to my question. I am not surprised.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

If you don't understand fallacies, don't accuse them. Just because you don't want to talk about something doesn't make it a red herring. I am discussing this very topic which, by the very definition of a red herring, means my statement is not.

Either reply honestly or not. Your choice. My argument is quite simple, which is the argument put forth by the OP is insincere and hypocritical. To make that argument, I provide context.

Just because you cannot refute the validity of my argument, don't go around falsely accusing fallacies you clearly do not understand.
:lol:

Once again, you refuse to respond to my question. I am not surprised.
"accuse" fallacies? WTF are you talking about?
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Agree? Disagree? If the latter, document why DJT does not make a compelling case for border enforcements;/barriers/wall/steel slats.

1. If the case of the wall is to have less crime in the US, then we should OPEN the borders. Statistics show that immigrants (both legal and not) commit much FEWER crimes than native-born American. Here is just one example and you can find many more:

the rate per 100,000 residents in each subpopulation was 899 for undocumented immigrants, 611 for legal immigrants and 1,797 for native-born Americans

So a country composed of immigrants would have REDUCED the crime rate in fact.

2. Is border wall the MOST COST EFFECTIVE way to prevent illegal immigration? That's not answered by Trump's tweet even though many would argue that it's not. In some places (e.g. those to large cities) a wall is effective (and that's why we have it there). In other places, terrain itself is a large deterrent already and other means are more effective.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Agree? Disagree? If the latter, document why DJT does not make a compelling case for border enforcements;/barriers/wall/steel slats.

Conflating the argument with he's a "Russian spy" or a bloated orange buffoon does not count as a compelling argument. IOW, don't derail this thread with the usual sophomoric, anti-Trump banter.



Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

23% of Federal inmates are illegal immigrants. Border arrests are up 240%. In the Great State of Texas, between 2011 & 2018, there were a total of 292,000 crimes by illegal aliens, 539 murders, 32,000 assaults, 3,426 sexual assaults and 3000 weapons charges. Democrats come back!



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1084098258534891521

Given his record, why would anyone believe any stats Trump offers on this topic? He comes to the table with unclean hands.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Agree? Disagree? If the latter, document why DJT does not make a compelling case for border enforcements;/barriers/wall/steel slats.

Conflating the argument with he's a "Russian spy" or a bloated orange buffoon does not count as a compelling argument. IOW, don't derail this thread with the usual sophomoric, anti-Trump banter.



Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

23% of Federal inmates are illegal immigrants. Border arrests are up 240%. In the Great State of Texas, between 2011 & 2018, there were a total of 292,000 crimes by illegal aliens, 539 murders, 32,000 assaults, 3,426 sexual assaults and 3000 weapons charges. Democrats come back!



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1084098258534891521



Statistically, on a per capita basis, natural born citizens commit more crimes than illegals.

That makes the entire argument not compelling, and, in fact, it nullifies it completely.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Put up a wall.

It will not appreciably reduce violent crime in America.

Show me how I am wrong.

This thread is not about violent crime in America.
It is about illegals committing violent crimes.

A CONCRETE wall WILL significantly decrease illegal aliens coming here.
That in itself will reduce crimes committed by them.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

This thread is not about violent crime in America.
It is about illegals committing violent crimes.

A CONCRETE wall WILL significantly decrease illegal aliens coming here.
That in itself will reduce crimes committed by them.

By the same logic (and as I mentioned in another thread),

- Because SOME LEGAL immigrants commit murders, we should stop ALL LEGAL immigration.

- Because SOME people who had served time in prison commit murders upon release, we should ONLY give out LIFE sentences.

- Because SOME people with guns commit murders, we should stop allowing ALL gun ownership.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

By the same logic (and as I mentioned in another thread),

- Because SOME LEGAL immigrants commit murders, we should stop ALL LEGAL immigration.

- Because SOME people who had served time in prison commit murders upon release, we should ONLY give out LIFE sentences.

- Because SOME people with guns commit murders, we should stop allowing ALL gun ownership.

Nope. I do not agree with any of those three points.

A CONCRETE WALL will stop most illegals from crossing into our country by bypassing ports of entry like they do now.

I like illegals. I just believe we have enough of them here already.
They are a wonderful source of cheap labor....and they are very skilled at building too.
Who do you think I am going to hire to build a little shack out in the jungle for wildlife viewing.
It sure as hell will not be some labor union.
I will go to where the locals told me they all hang out, bring about four of them back here, show them the materials and a picture of the shack i want built.

Badda Bing...Badda Boom...Done :mrgreen:

We don't need any more NEW ILLEGALS. We have enough here already and they don't want anymore of them here either. They told me so on the last project I hired them to do. Unless he is family, if a new face shows up on their corner, they kick his ass and run him off. They told me that directly. They like their little niche here and jealously guard it.
 
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Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Nope. I do not agree with any of those three points.

You may not agree with those points but they are derived from the same logic as your earlier post, i.e.

A CONCRETE wall WILL significantly decrease illegal aliens coming here. That in itself will reduce crimes committed by them.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

You may not agree with those points but they are derived from the same logic as your earlier post, i.e.

You derived. I stated plainly.

Is this what some call a "diversion".
You say X, therefore you must mean Y.
Believe all the misconceptions you like.
When do i become "just like Hitler"?

I am waiting patiently for that one to come up soon.
Holding my comb up to my upper lip.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Agree? Disagree? If the latter, document why DJT does not make a compelling case for border enforcements;/barriers/wall/steel slats.

Conflating the argument with he's a "Russian spy" or a bloated orange buffoon does not count as a compelling argument. IOW, don't derail this thread with the usual sophomoric, anti-Trump banter.



Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

23% of Federal inmates are illegal immigrants. Border arrests are up 240%. In the Great State of Texas, between 2011 & 2018, there were a total of 292,000 crimes by illegal aliens, 539 murders, 32,000 assaults, 3,426 sexual assaults and 3000 weapons charges. Democrats come back!



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1084098258534891521

You should know if djt tweeted stats their meaningless.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

That assumes Donald actually knows what he wants to build and where he wants to build it which of course HE DOESN'T.

You can, of course, prove that or is just more TDS?
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

If you don't understand fallacies, don't accuse them. Just because you don't want to talk about something doesn't make it a red herring. I am discussing this very topic which, by the very definition of a red herring, means my statement is not.

Either reply honestly or not. Your choice. My argument is quite simple, which is the argument put forth by the OP is insincere and hypocritical. To make that argument, I provide context.

Just because you cannot refute the validity of my argument, don't go around falsely accusing fallacies you clearly do not understand.
:lol:

Once again, you refuse to respond to my question. I am not surprised.

Yes, I am. I've already explained this. Please stop posting lies.
It's really not, it's exposing the hypocrisy of this obviously insincere argument about safety.

The same people who shrug their shoulders when 20 first graders are murdered in their classroom, when 11,000 Americans die from guns in a year, suddenly are so very concerned about 539 murders. It's a lie. It's not about the crime, it's about some other factor. And since the same people chanting for a wall seem totally cool with immigration from countries where the people look like them, it sure does seem as if skin color has a lot to do with it.

It's not a red herring, one just has to be intelligent enough to understand the point of the argument. If 539 murders really was a "compelling argument", as put forth by several in this thread, then 11,000 murders should be as well. But, for those people who want to talk about 539 murders, the 11,000 is a number with which they seem unconcerned.

It's not a red herring, it's about pointing out insincerity and hypocrisy.
Nope. Every time you claim my post is not on topic, it is not honest.

Like I said, intellectual honesty is difficult for some people.

Your honor, the prosecutor is making a speech and has presented no question. Is it too much to expect that he will address the matter at hand rather than the price of tea in China?
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

Proponents of gun control have been asking people who identify politically similarly to you that very question for years.

Tell me, if you think "539 murders" is enough to justify spending billions on a "solution" many experts agree will not solve the very problem it is supposed to address, then shouldn't the over 11,000 homicides by firearm be enough to suggest a much greater national emergency and a much greater response?

There will always be Americans who kill and maim and cause mischief to other citizens. The government has to deal with that problem. It's part of the job and it's expectation.

But the government doesn't have to be indifferent about foreigners coming illegally into the country who kill and maim and cause mischief to American citizens. It's the job to keep them out and away from USA citizens. When it doesn't do that, it is failing part of its job.
 
Re: President Trump makes a compelling argument

You derived. I stated plainly.

Is this what some call a "diversion".
You say X, therefore you must mean Y.
Believe all the misconceptions you like.
When do i become "just like Hitler"?

I am waiting patiently for that one to come up soon.
Holding my comb up to my upper lip.

I applied your same logic to other situations and sounds like you did not like the outcome
 
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