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How to end this with most being "winners"?

Grokmaster said:
The House Dems cannot override a veto. Not even CLOSE.

So be "WE", you mean the ILLEGALOCRATS, not the American People.
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You already have 8 Gopers jump ship on these bills. If McConnell shows a williingness to have a vote, I think you would easily have a veto proof vote with many of the GOPers in the House going with the Dems.
 
independentusa said:
The country spends 25 billion dollars it does not have and will have to borrow from the Chinese. And to top that all off, the wall will not stop anything.
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We already spend $100 billion a year on illegal aliens. Sounds like a hell of a savings, to me.
 
independentusa said:
Have the House pass all of the bills with sufficient votes to over ride a veto and without the wall but with 7 billion in additional funding for border security. Then McConnell allows a vote on the bills and insure that there are sufficient number of GOP votes to over ride a veto. The Senate GOPers who would vote for the bills would be those with a great number of government workers in their districts that could give them cover for their votes. Trump could allow the bills to lay on his desk for the days needed for them to become law without his signature. The government would open and the Dems could claim they did not give in to the wall. Trump could claim he did not give in to the Dems and that the Legislative branch forced his hand and he would somehow get the wall built in the future. All of the legislators could go back to their districts and say they have helped secure our borders by the huge increase in funding for that purpose. No one would lose and the American people would be back in business.
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We don't negotiate with terrorists.
 
apdst said:
We already spend $100 billion a year on illegal aliens. Sounds like a hell of a savings, to me.
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You still believe those numbers, eh?
 
independentusa said:
Have the House pass all of the bills with sufficient votes to over ride a veto and without the wall
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If it's without the wall that isn't a compromise. So that is not a win for everybody.

This isn't about presenting an alternative to the wall it's about blocking Trump from building the wall because that was one of his campaign issues. That's all this is.
 
Dems get DACA
Trumps gets $5 Bil for border security
 
apdst said:
We already spend $100 billion a year on illegal aliens. Sounds like a hell of a savings, to me.
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Link on the 100 billion please. sounds like you made that one up.
 
Deuce said:
We don't negotiate with terrorists.
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Who are the terrorists, Trump or the Dems? And when did negotiations between the parties become negotiating with terrorists? You do know how stupid that sounds don't you?
 
Amelia said:
What does that mean?

If someone takes something they have no right to, and you pay them money to get it back, then that's not give and take.

But if you refuse to pay them money to get it back, you get told it takes two to tango?



Whatever.
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Both sides have to be willing to compromise. One side alone won't work.
 
independentusa said:
I think I read that McConnell's last polling in Kentucky showed him at 18%. Nothing he does can save him and he will be primaried no matter what. He can use this to look like the country's savior rather than an ineffective Trump boot licker.
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I don't think that matters much. If Trump backs him in the primary, the majority of Republicans in Kentucky are Trump supporters, McConnell wins. Then whomever is the Democratic nominee must beat McConnell in a state 15 points more Republican than the national average. History shows that 90% of Republicans and Democrats for that matter, they vote for their party's candidates.

To defeat McConnell, the Democratic nominee must win a huge majority of independents. If my numbers are right, at least 60% plus.
 
CLAX1911 said:
If it's without the wall that isn't a compromise. So that is not a win for everybody.

This isn't about presenting an alternative to the wall it's about blocking Trump from building the wall because that was one of his campaign issues. That's all this is.
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"Give me what I want or I will hurt people" isn't compromise. That's terrorism.
 
independentusa said:
Who are the terrorists, Trump or the Dems? And when did negotiations between the parties become negotiating with terrorists? You do know how stupid that sounds don't you?
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Trump is intentionally harming people to coerce others into giving him what he wants.
 
Deuce said:
Trump is intentionally harming people to coerce others into giving him what he wants.
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And it add insult to injury he is doing this harm to coerce others into giving him something he pledged he would never ask for.
 
Amelia said:
And it add insult to injury he is doing this harm to coerce others into giving him something he pledged he would never ask for.
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He thinks it's harming mostly Democrats. As do most right wingers. So they think this is good, unless it hurts them directly. Because ultimately, conservatism is an ideology based on inflicting harm onto one's perceived enemies.

“I voted for him, and he’s the one who’s doing this,” Minton told Mazzei. “I thought he was going to do good things. He’s not hurting the people he needs to be hurting.”
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Deuce said:
He thinks it's harming mostly Democrats. As do most right wingers. So they think this is good, unless it hurts them directly. Because ultimately, conservatism is an ideology based on inflicting harm onto one's perceived enemies.
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I consider myself a moderate so not a con, but I think you are wrong. Many of the real conservatives in this country are appalled at what they see Trump and his followers are doing both to the country and to the GOP which these conservatives built. They went off the tracks when they allowed the Tea Party to take over the party and now have to live with that decision. That decision has lead them to a party who now considers everyone who does not think as they do as the enemy and tries to destroy them. They have become the win at any cost, even to befriending an enemy of this country to help them win an electiion, because winning and the party seems to be more important than country.
 
independentusa said:
Have the House pass all of the bills with sufficient votes to over ride a veto and without the wall but with 7 billion in additional funding for border security. Then McConnell allows a vote on the bills and insure that there are sufficient number of GOP votes to over ride a veto. The Senate GOPers who would vote for the bills would be those with a great number of government workers in their districts that could give them cover for their votes. Trump could allow the bills to lay on his desk for the days needed for them to become law without his signature. The government would open and the Dems could claim they did not give in to the wall. Trump could claim he did not give in to the Dems and that the Legislative branch forced his hand and he would somehow get the wall built in the future. All of the legislators could go back to their districts and say they have helped secure our borders by the huge increase in funding for that purpose. No one would lose and the American people would be back in business.
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If money grew on hackberry trees
If time wasn't such a luxury
If love was lovesick over me
That'd be alright
If I could keep the wind in my sails
Keep a hold of the tiger by the tail
A half a ham sandwich in my lunch pail
That'd be alright
That'd be alright
That'd be alright
If everybody everywhere had a lighter load to bear
And a little bigger piece of the pie
We'd be livin' us a pretty good life
That'd be alright
Go heavy on the good light on the bad
A hair more happy and a shade less sad
Turn all the negative down just a tad
That'd be alright
If my dear ol' dog never got old
If my family farm never got sold
If another bad joke never got told
That'd be alright
That'd be alright
That'd be alright
If everybody everywhere had a lighter load to bear
And a little bigger piece of the pie
We'd be livin' us a pretty good life
That'd be alright
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independentusa said:
I consider myself a moderate so not a con, but I think you are wrong. Many of the real conservatives in this country are appalled at what they see Trump and his followers are doing both to the country and to the GOP which these conservatives built. They went off the tracks when they allowed the Tea Party to take over the party and now have to live with that decision. That decision has lead them to a party who now considers everyone who does not think as they do as the enemy and tries to destroy them. They have become the win at any cost, even to befriending an enemy of this country to help them win an electiion, because winning and the party seems to be more important than country.
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Until they vote out these people, any claims to such moderation are just words.
 
Deuce said:
"Give me what I want or I will hurt people" isn't compromise. That's terrorism.
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Well the house didn't even try to compromise. They said absolutely no funding at all for the wall. I would have walked out of that too that's a bad deal. someone gets everything they want and you get nothing.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Well the house didn't even try to compromise. They said absolutely no funding at all for the wall. I would have walked out of that too that's a bad deal. someone gets everything they want and you get nothing.
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More people in this country do not want the wall or to pay for it. If Trump can get Mexico to pay for the wall, so be it. Until then let us spend the money we have available for the methods that work to keep our borders safe. No one with a brain thinks that the wall will help in keeping our borders safe. It is nothing but a political promise that Trump sees as his way of getting reelected.
 
independentusa said:
More people in this country do not want the wall or to pay for it. If Trump can get Mexico to pay for the wall, so be it. Until then let us spend the money we have available for the methods that work to keep our borders safe. No one with a brain thinks that the wall will help in keeping our borders safe. It is nothing but a political promise that Trump sees as his way of getting reelected.
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this will only look good for Trump and Republicans. If Democrats block the wall he can say he tried the Democrats obstructed. Either way he comes out smelling like roses.
 
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