Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 82

Thread: Future "National Emergencies" from the left

  1. #1
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:30 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    104,105

    Future "National Emergencies" from the left

    If Trump declares his national emergency over border security and it is supported by the Republicans who simply want to give Trump a way out of the hopeless corner he has painted himself into and it is held up by the Courts - what happens down the road when a liberal Democrat is President and decides to pull the same measure regarding an issue like climate change or gun policy or something that Republicans are not eager to accede to? If a Court has already stated that the President indeed has the powers Trump claims, what is to stop future presidents from using them to effectively seriously weaken the powers of Congress in these areas?

    And given this argument, how can Republicans in Congress stand by and encourage Trump to do this and not loudly object to it?

    Is the momentary benefit to Trump so important that they would risk the very powers of the Congress as established by the Constitution?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  2. #2
    Powered by diesel
    EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Grapeview, Washington
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    10,486

    Re: Future "National Emergencies" from the left

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If Trump declares his national emergency over border security and it is supported by the Republicans who simply want to give Trump a way out of the hopeless corner he has painted himself into and it is held up by the Courts - what happens down the road when a liberal Democrat is President and decides to pull the same measure regarding an issue like climate change or gun policy or something that Republicans are not eager to accede to? If a Court has already stated that the President indeed has the powers Trump claims, what is to stop future presidents from using them to effectively seriously weaken the powers of Congress in these areas?

    And given this argument, how can Republicans in Congress stand by and encourage Trump to do this and not loudly object to it?

    Is the momentary benefit to Trump so important that they would risk the very powers of the Congress as established by the Constitution?
    The national emergency statutes do not permit the president to change law, it permits the president to do certain things including the construction of military facilities and fortifications. I guess the president can order the military to construct bulletproof doors in schools or seawalls for climate change, but a declaration of national emergency does not give the executive unilateral lawmaking authority
    What socialized medicine REALLY means, sometimes the mask slips!
    Quote Originally Posted by Atheist 2020 View Post
    I do not see were a woman has the right to take a child to full term.
    "Be careful of averages, the average person has one breast and one testicle"
    -Dixy Lee Ray

  3. #3
    Conservative Independent
    DarkWizard12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Tyler TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,295

    Re: Future "National Emergencies" from the left

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If Trump declares his national emergency over border security and it is supported by the Republicans who simply want to give Trump a way out of the hopeless corner he has painted himself into and it is held up by the Courts - what happens down the road when a liberal Democrat is President and decides to pull the same measure regarding an issue like climate change or gun policy or something that Republicans are not eager to accede to? If a Court has already stated that the President indeed has the powers Trump claims, what is to stop future presidents from using them to effectively seriously weaken the powers of Congress in these areas?

    And given this argument, how can Republicans in Congress stand by and encourage Trump to do this and not loudly object to it?

    Is the momentary benefit to Trump so important that they would risk the very powers of the Congress as established by the Constitution?
    The problem is that, on those issue, they are entirely time-based. A democrat could only declare an emergency on those issues for, at most, 8 years. Once the wall is built however well...it's built. There is no need to have a national emergency for 8 years with it. The other issues are simply too time-transcedent to have any real effect. As soon as a democrat is replaced, people buy guns and run gas guzzling cars once again.

  4. #4
    Sometimes wrong
    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    45,661

    Re: Future "National Emergencies" from the left

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If Trump declares his national emergency over border security and it is supported by the Republicans who simply want to give Trump a way out of the hopeless corner he has painted himself into and it is held up by the Courts - what happens down the road when a liberal Democrat is President and decides to pull the same measure regarding an issue like climate change or gun policy or something that Republicans are not eager to accede to? If a Court has already stated that the President indeed has the powers Trump claims, what is to stop future presidents from using them to effectively seriously weaken the powers of Congress in these areas?

    And given this argument, how can Republicans in Congress stand by and encourage Trump to do this and not loudly object to it?

    Is the momentary benefit to Trump so important that they would risk the very powers of the Congress as established by the Constitution?
    I certainly hope not, yet the constitution does not require (but does allow) 60 votes in the Senate to pass a bill either.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  5. #5
    User
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    138

    Re: Future "National Emergencies" from the left

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    The problem is that, on those issue, they are entirely time-based. A democrat could only declare an emergency on those issues for, at most, 8 years. Once the wall is built however well...it's built. There is no need to have a national emergency for 8 years with it. The other issues are simply too time-transcedent to have any real effect. As soon as a democrat is replaced, people buy guns and run gas guzzling cars once again.
    Do you mean this wall? Or the one they sawed a big hole in?
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm...-sawed-n956856

    WashedOutWall.jpg

  6. #6
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,683

    Re: Future "National Emergencies" from the left

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I certainly hope not, yet the constitution does not require (but does allow) 60 votes in the Senate to pass a bill either.
    Correct so the courts will also look at the fact the senate could have invoked the nuclear option. They didn’t.
    Quote Originally Posted by Praxas
    Yes, we know that you don't care Trump bragged about walking in on underage girls naked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    And that bothers you because????????
    -In 2017, conservatives said they were concerned about women being assaulted in bathrooms. In 2018 conservatives showed women they wouldn’t believe them if they were.

  7. #7
    HoHoHo
    tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    50,439

    Re: Future "National Emergencies" from the left

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If Trump declares his national emergency over border security and it is supported by the Republicans who simply want to give Trump a way out of the hopeless corner he has painted himself into and it is held up by the Courts - what happens down the road when a liberal Democrat is President and decides to pull the same measure regarding an issue like climate change or gun policy or something that Republicans are not eager to accede to? If a Court has already stated that the President indeed has the powers Trump claims, what is to stop future presidents from using them to effectively seriously weaken the powers of Congress in these areas?

    And given this argument, how can Republicans in Congress stand by and encourage Trump to do this and not loudly object to it?

    Is the momentary benefit to Trump so important that they would risk the very powers of the Congress as established by the Constitution?
    Morons like Jim Jordan, Mark Meadows, and Kevin McCarthy aside, I just don't see the Republicans in Congress allowing Trump to declare this national emergency.

    And you do make a very good point. I agree with everyone who says we should somehow fix the immigration process. Not because I'm in a panic that some immigrant wants to kill me but because I'm a firm believer in processes and the law. But I don't see this as a national crisis, much as Trump wants to make it out to be one.

    The biggest reason I think the GOP won't let him get away with it is that they are not stupid. Anyone who isn't so blinded by Trump knows that the Republicans controlled the House, Senate and White House until last week. This "national crisis" didn't become a "national emergency" until the Dems took control of the House. People who don't admit that are liars.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  8. #8
    Professor
    MrShangles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Posts
    1,950

    Re: Future "National Emergencies" from the left

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If Trump declares his national emergency over border security and it is supported by the Republicans who simply want to give Trump a way out of the hopeless corner he has painted himself into and it is held up by the Courts - what happens down the road when a liberal Democrat is President and decides to pull the same measure regarding an issue like climate change or gun policy or something that Republicans are not eager to accede to? If a Court has already stated that the President indeed has the powers Trump claims, what is to stop future presidents from using them to effectively seriously weaken the powers of Congress in these areas?

    And given this argument, how can Republicans in Congress stand by and encourage Trump to do this and not loudly object to it?

    Is the momentary benefit to Trump so important that they would risk the very powers of the Congress as established by the Constitution?
    The democrats wanted wanted this law in 1976 so sit back and let a grownup handle things


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    A sinister place...
    OrphanSlug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Atlanta
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    13,258

    Re: Future "National Emergencies" from the left

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If Trump declares his national emergency over border security and it is supported by the Republicans who simply want to give Trump a way out of the hopeless corner he has painted himself into and it is held up by the Courts - what happens down the road when a liberal Democrat is President and decides to pull the same measure regarding an issue like climate change or gun policy or something that Republicans are not eager to accede to? If a Court has already stated that the President indeed has the powers Trump claims, what is to stop future presidents from using them to effectively seriously weaken the powers of Congress in these areas?

    And given this argument, how can Republicans in Congress stand by and encourage Trump to do this and not loudly object to it?

    Is the momentary benefit to Trump so important that they would risk the very powers of the Congress as established by the Constitution?
    I tend to agree with others that the National Emergencies Act of 1976 does not necessarily allow a President to change law, but it does grant fairly broad powers to the President on what to do with funding allocated to various departments within the Executive Branch.

    Constitutionally speaking, there is very little to discuss here. The Constitution grants little to no power to the President for "national emergencies," Congress has been responsible for allowing this over the years to the point of the National Emergencies Act trying to reign back in how far prior Presidents abused the authority. If anything the act allows Congress to terminate the National Emergency, they just have to agree and that is not too common these days.

    What Trump is doing is the same thing as just about every other President, pushing to new limits their authority to do something. We talk all the time about the Constitution and rule of law being a tool of restriction but very often politicians are looking for means to wiggle their way into greater authority. Congress playing into the Judicial Branch, the Supreme Court playing into the Legislative Branch, and of course the President playing into everything they can get their hands on.

    All Trump is doing is using that authoritarian nationalist tone of his pushing a national security to obtain a border wall. Our issue is what doors that opens up for the next President to use the authority for some other questionable means. Very rarely does this effort to expand power find some plateau and stop, the effort is expanded at the expense of Constitutionality. We have zero evidence that the next President (or even Trump himself later in this Presidency) will all of a sudden stop looking to push their limits of authority for some political reason.

    We should be concerned, very concerned, about what we are seeing.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

  10. #10
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:30 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    104,105

    Re: Future "National Emergencies" from the left

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    The national emergency statutes do not permit the president to change law, it permits the president to do certain things including the construction of military facilities and fortifications. I guess the president can order the military to construct bulletproof doors in schools or seawalls for climate change, but a declaration of national emergency does not give the executive unilateral lawmaking authority
    So you say. And others say that Trump cannot do what he says he is likely to do.

    No disrespect to you, but your opinion is cold comfort given that Trump is likely to take billions and billions of dollars appropriated for other expenditures and apply them to something that they have not been approved for.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •