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Thread: Should federal workers be protected?

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    Re: Should federal workers be protected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Person View Post
    I alter my view to: pass a law tweaking the definition of essential and non-essential services such that even if a service is deemed "non-essential", the workers have to get paid despite being ordered home.

    They don't deserve this ****. It's not their fight. And if the 'waste' of money involved in paying people to not work discourages shutdowns, good. This is no way to govern, especially in a constitutional scheme in which checking the executive is supposed to be a good thing...

    Would it be 100% of their pay?

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    Re: Should federal workers be protected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic Bob View Post
    Given that the federal government is the largest employer in the nation, should Congress pass legislation that federal workers can’t be evicted or have their utilities cut off and other basic protections during a shutdown?

    I think it would be a good thing to do and a necessary thing if the shutdown goes into February.
    Great “feel good” policy, but comes with all sorts of complications. You are basically taking a select group of people because they are government employees and applying a special privilege to them that goes into the private sector and tells those businesses to treat them differently.

    You are trying to create a protected class in economic terms that is subject to immediate challenge as the Constitution grants no authority to the government to force businesses to give products and services to their employees for free anytime those in charge shut the government down for political reasons.

    It is a problematic and messy idea that in some regards takes some of the onus off politicians themselves when deciding to shut government down, by applying the weight of the decision right onto the private sector. This happens anyway but the idea makes matters worse.

    At the same time you are also, knowingly or not, applying another privilege to public sector employees that the private sector does not have. Some degree of protection from idiots in charge.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Should federal workers be protected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic Bob View Post
    Given that the federal government is the largest employer in the nation, should Congress pass legislation that federal workers canít be evicted or have their utilities cut off and other basic protections during a shutdown?

    I think it would be a good thing to do and a necessary thing if the shutdown goes into February.
    No, I donít think so. Iíve worked in manufacturing before and if we didnít have any orders weíd have to close the plant. Itís really no different than any other job that temporarily shuts down for whatever reason, so why should they get special protections the millions of other workers in the country donít have?
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

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    Re: Should federal workers be protected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chillfolks View Post
    Would it be 100% of their pay?
    Why not? They want to work. Someone else is holding them hostage.

    That's kind of the point: it's got nothing to do with them, and it would probably discourage shutdowns (well, ok, not for a current GOP that has kicked deficits to a trillion/year in a good economy). And if not, it would at least be the decent thing to do.



    And don't worry, I pay plenty in taxes. It would cost me too.

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    Re: Should federal workers be protected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic Bob View Post
    Given that the federal government is the largest employer in the nation, should Congress pass legislation that federal workers canít be evicted or have their utilities cut off and other basic protections during a shutdown?

    I think it would be a good thing to do and a necessary thing if the shutdown goes into February.
    No, of course not. They already have it better than 90% of employees in this country who have no protection whatsoever if laid off.

    It would make more sense to legislate that federal employees can have no more protections, salary or benefits than the private sector does.

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    Re: Should federal workers be protected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chillfolks View Post
    Would it be 100% of their pay?
    Why not? They want to work. Someone else is holding them hostage.

    That's kind of the point: it's got nothing to do with them, and it would probably discourage shutdowns (well, ok, not for a current GOP that has kicked deficits to a trillion/year in a good economy). And if not, it would at least be the decent thing to do.

    And don't worry, I pay plenty in taxes. It would cost me too.



    Really, the only reason to say **** like this....

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    No, of course not. They already have it better than 90% of employees in this country who have no protection whatsoever if laid off.
    ....is not that you mean it. It can't be. Those days ended a while back. It's that you want it to hurt because you want hostages, and chances are if you want hostages it is because the same party has been doing it in the last decade or so: the GOP. So sure, not paying them sounds like a great idea if you think you can spin it to X% of the GOP base as something the Democrats are making you do.

    Do you feel that way? I hope not. I'm taking aim at the jokos, at least until I hear your view, Chill. But this shutdown isn't their fault, they shouldn't be pawns in someone else's game, and governance-by-shutdown needs to end no matter who thinks whom is right.




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    What's the one other situation that is commonly uttered in, to the point of being a tragic cliche?

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    Re: Should federal workers be protected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Person View Post
    Why not? They want to work. Someone else is holding them hostage.

    That's kind of the point: it's got nothing to do with them, and it would probably discourage shutdowns (well, ok, not for a current GOP that has kicked deficits to a trillion/year in a good economy). And if not, it would at least be the decent thing to do.



    And don't worry, I pay plenty in taxes. It would cost me too.
    If a private sector individual temporarily looses a job they do not get 100% of their pay even if they want to work. I don't mind the portion like someone would receive on unemployment but no one is forced to take a government job. You shouldn't have two different standards for people who are out of work because of others doings.

    If they want 100% pay they should be able to use any PTO or vacation time. If they don't want to do that then they receive a portion of their pay equivalent to what unemployment would pay for a non government employee.


    Little off topic but I think the Coast Guard should be considered essential personnel and no members of congress or the president and vp receive any pay or back pay for a shutdown. They don't get rewarded for their inability to do their job

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    Re: Should federal workers be protected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic Bob View Post
    Given that the federal government is the largest employer in the nation, should Congress pass legislation that federal workers canít be evicted or have their utilities cut off and other basic protections during a shutdown?

    I think it would be a good thing to do and a necessary thing if the shutdown goes into February.
    Kind of like the "Soldiers and Sailors Relief Act," of 1940. That makes sense to me.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Should federal workers be protected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Person View Post
    Why not? They want to work. Someone else is holding them hostage.

    That's kind of the point: it's got nothing to do with them, and it would probably discourage shutdowns (well, ok, not for a current GOP that has kicked deficits to a trillion/year in a good economy). And if not, it would at least be the decent thing to do.

    And don't worry, I pay plenty in taxes. It would cost me too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chillfolks View Post
    If a private sector individual temporarily looses a job they do not get 100% of their pay even if they want to work. I don't mind the portion like someone would receive on unemployment but no one is forced to take a government job. You shouldn't have two different standards for people who are out of work because of others doings.

    If they want 100% pay they should be able to use any PTO or vacation time. If they don't want to do that then they receive a portion of their pay equivalent to what unemployment would pay for a non government employee.

    Little off topic but I think the Coast Guard should be considered essential personnel and no members of congress or the president and vp receive any pay or back pay for a shutdown. They don't get rewarded for their inability to do their job
    This isn't a private sector worker losing their job, though. That's not the analogy.

    Neither would be a private sector worker being furloughed because the company is going out of business.


    These are people who could work, who could be paid to work, and who are only not working because an idiotic political fight (that could be resolved by giving the Dems something they want). They're pawns and it isn't right. It's completely different than anything going on in the private sector.

    That's the problem.





    Of course, there's a secondary problem: unless we really do want government to be just as inept as we say it is, we shouldn't do stuff that, like this, will operate to discourage people from working for it.

    What's the best way to get a **** workforce? Treat the good workers bad, hire the most desperate willing to fill in. An awful lot of people don't believe it, but there actually are committed people who want to work for the public and who take federal jobs. These people have to be sending out resumes at this point....

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    Re: Should federal workers be protected?

    No. It would further incentivize idiots in congress and idiots in the white house, to hold government workers hostage for petty nonsense.
    It should be prohibited in general (shutdown for nonsense reasons), or painful. Making it easier to endure, seems like its incentivizing the wrong thing.

    One might be able to argue that the reason the shutdown was even done or has persisted for so long, at such a high cost to taxpayers, is because the employees (not contractors and private business service folks, etc., all down the line), get back-pay. Why? they aren't working, why do they get paid? If an employer is so crappy that they can't make payroll, people need to be pissed, and quit, etc.

    Maybe if they didn't get back pay, Trump wouldn't have been so cavalier about shutting down government because Fox pundits scared him to hold to us stupid, phony campaign line.

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