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The Wall Will Not Cost Anything

Moderate Right said:
But the "path of least resistance" pretty much means the wall will make it much harder and work to some degree. The border patrol, those at ground zero, want a wall. No one knows the situation better than they do. I mean we have a wall now. It's there for a reason. Even a poll here on DP said we should not take the walls down that we already have. There's a reason for that and there is a reason why Obama was allowed to put up barriers while president and Trump isn't allowed to put up even one inch.
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And the reason is that they are in places where they can do the most good when integrated with complimentary border security assets. That is not an argument for what Trump wants whatever that might be at this point. He can't describe it the same way twice in a row. So sorry, no rational for funding a figment of Trump's imagination.
 
Fishking said:
While it remains to be seen if this would pass a court challenge, it does seem like it could technically be done. However, it would be a terrible precedent to set for presidential power. It would fall along in the similar vein of the horrible method in which Obamacare was passed, in that it wasn't their proper authority to do such a thing but they could force it on the people by calling it a tax.
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I agree. It should never reach this point. Democrats should bargain in good faith. They are playing partisan politics, pure and simple. Five billion is but a very small drop in the US economy and budget and Obama has put up walls on the border so there's no reason Trump can't too. Democrats are so much into the resistance and scoring political points against Trump that they don't give a rat's ass about government workers not getting their checks just so they can make Trump look bad.
 
jnug said:
And the reason is that they are in places where they can do the most good when integrated with complimentary border security assets. That is not an argument for what Trump wants whatever that might be at this point. He can't describe it the same way twice in a row. So sorry, no rational for funding a figment of Trump's imagination.
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But but but a wall will not work. Don't you remember? So how can you possibly say walls are in places where they can do the most good? Sounds to me like you're admitting that walls actually do work.
 
Moderate Right said:
I agree. It should never reach this point. Democrats should bargain in good faith. They are playing partisan politics, pure and simple. Five billion is but a very small drop in the US economy and budget and Obama has put up walls on the border so there's no reason Trump can't too. Democrats are so much into the resistance and scoring political points against Trump that they don't give a rat's ass about government workers not getting their checks just so they can make Trump look bad.
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What is there to bargain about? Trump will not go through the Appropriations process to get his wall funding. In truth, I don't think he can because he cannot even describe what this "Wall" thing is the same way twice in a row. So sorry, can't negotiate with a hostage taker. Can't negotiate with somebody that subverts the Appropriations process and then attempts to use the coercion of Government shutdown to get some mythical figment of his imagination that was never anything more than campaign rhetoric.
 
Moderate Right said:
if Trump declares a national emergency and pays for the wall out of funds that have already been approved by the Democrats for spending. Those dollars were not earmarked for anything in particular so they can be spent on anything. So, Congress does not have to approve additional spending for a wall.
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I don't think the party of resistance and the do nothing party will sit back and actually let someone such as Trump do something. They are better known for kicking the can down the road.

You know the way they are repairing the dikes in New Orleans after the flood. It wasn't until the dust from the dust bowl actually blew over DC for them to take action on that minor problem. It took 911 for them to take the terrorist issue serious. Now it is border security.

Then they make such a big deal about shutting government down. Oh they want to be paid for doing nothing. I say we pay those government workers that actually are doing their job and shut down congress only. I don't think we will even notice a difference.
 
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Moderate Right said:
But but but a wall will not work. Don't you remember? So how can you possibly say walls are in places where they can do the most good? Sounds to me like you're admitting that walls actually do work.
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in urban environments or areas of some measurable population where integrated with other complimentary assets they can slow human traffic enough to have some value as a delaying mechanism. Outside of that...NO!

We already have physical barrier in those places. Some of that could be upgraded. Outside of that....NO!

None of this discussion gets around the fact that Trump cannot describe what he wants or where he wants to put it twice in a row and is subverting the Appropriations process and has turned to coercion to try to get something he himself cannot define.
 
Moderate Right said:
I agree. It should never reach this point. Democrats should bargain in good faith. They are playing partisan politics, pure and simple. Five billion is but a very small drop in the US economy and budget and Obama has put up walls on the border so there's no reason Trump can't too. Democrats are so much into the resistance and scoring political points against Trump that they don't give a rat's ass about government workers not getting their checks just so they can make Trump look bad.
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Oh we cannot let the do nothing party off the hook either. They are every bit as good at kicking the can down the road rather than actually getting anything done. They will only take border security serious after something like 911 forces them to start waving the flag and act as if they actually care about the American people.
 
Fishking said:
While it remains to be seen if this would pass a court challenge, it does seem like it could technically be done. However, it would be a terrible precedent to set for presidential power. It would fall along in the similar vein of the horrible method in which Obamacare was passed, in that it wasn't their proper authority to do such a thing but they could force it on the people by calling it a tax.
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How else do you get anything done with congress. Between the resistance and the do nothing party kicking the can down the road and only focusing on hate for the other party and playing the blame game how else can something get done for the people.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
How else do you get anything done with congress. Between the resistance and the do nothing party kicking the can down the road and only focusing on hate for the other party and playing the blame game how else can something get done for the people.
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Projecting much???

Donald did not even try an Appropriations Process, one sure sign that he never had any earthly idea what he was talking about. It was all campaign rhetoric.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
Just remember, whatever precedent Trump starts in order to get around Congress, will likely be followed in the future by a President wanting to do something you DON’T like.
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Well no, because if a D does something similar, then they'll just bitch about how he's acting like a king and trying to usurp power. If an R does it, it's cool.
 
Moderate Right said:
if Trump declares a national emergency and pays for the wall out of funds that have already been approved by the Democrats for spending. Those dollars were not earmarked for anything in particular so they can be spent on anything. So, Congress does not have to approve additional spending for a wall.
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Then why isn't the government back open yet?
 
lurchadams said:
Then why isn't the government back open yet?
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It's not about reopening the government. The Trump Shutdown is about making the Democrats pay no matter the cost to the American People.
 
Ikari said:
Not the American People.
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If Chuck and Nancy win, then you are correct. The American people will not win.

We will still have illegal aliens entering and staying in our country.

We will still be victims of criminal illegal aliens.

We will still suffer from the effects of drug smuggling.

If Trump wins, all those things will be greatly reduced.
 
Thread: The Wall Will Not Cost Anything


"The Wall" has already cost hundreds of thousands of Americans a great deal of financial pain and will probably take some of their homes and savings before Uncle Donny stops holding his breath and stomping his feet to get some candy in the grocery store.
 
Mycroft said:
If Chuck and Nancy win, then you are correct. The American people will not win.

We will still have illegal aliens entering and staying in our country.

We will still be victims of criminal illegal aliens.

We will still suffer from the effects of drug smuggling.

If Trump wins, all those things will be greatly reduced.
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If we built some comprehensive wall along the US-Mexico boarder, those things will likely be affected somewhat, though to what degree cannot be stated and for how long cannot be estimated. We already have tunnels, tunnels beat walls. And the wall won't encompass the whole of the US boarder, so there are plenty of other ways in.

The biggest drug problem we have in America, the one costing the most lives, isn't from illegal drugs smuggled over the US-Mexico boarders, it's opioids. So even at best, we're talking fractional changes to the overall system. Meanwhile, Trump's Shutdown is causing problems that only exacerbate each day it goes on and is affecting real Americans.

Trump's shutdown is lose/lose for America.
 
jnug said:
What is there to bargain about? Trump will not go through the Appropriations process to get his wall funding. In truth, I don't think he can because he cannot even describe what this "Wall" thing is the same way twice in a row. So sorry, can't negotiate with a hostage taker. Can't negotiate with somebody that subverts the Appropriations process and then attempts to use the coercion of Government shutdown to get some mythical figment of his imagination that was never anything more than campaign rhetoric.
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Democrats have already said they will not negotiate regarding a wall. They have clearly said, no wall, no way so your implication that if Trump stopped the shutdown Democrats would negotiate is in error. They have already said no to the wall. They refuse to negotiate. Even though Obama built walls Democrats are on record as saying no wall, no way to Trump. Would you be willing to negotiate to the point of allowing some form of wall?
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
I don't think the party of resistance and the do nothing party will sit back and actually let someone such as Trump do something. They are better known for kicking the can down the road.

You know the way they are repairing the dikes in New Orleans after the flood. It wasn't until the dust from the dust bowl actually blew over DC for them to take action on that minor problem. It took 911 for them to take the terrorist issue serious. Now it is border security.

Then they make such a big deal about shutting government down. Oh they want to be paid for doing nothing. I say we pay those government workers that actually are doing their job and shut down congress only. I don't think we will even notice a difference.
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You're right there. And wrong. Congress does do something. Nonstop political investigations.
 
jnug said:
in urban environments or areas of some measurable population where integrated with other complimentary assets they can slow human traffic enough to have some value as a delaying mechanism. Outside of that...NO!

We already have physical barrier in those places. Some of that could be upgraded. Outside of that....NO!

None of this discussion gets around the fact that Trump cannot describe what he wants or where he wants to put it twice in a row and is subverting the Appropriations process and has turned to coercion to try to get something he himself cannot define.
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Fact is Obama built walls but Trump is not allowed to.
 
Moderate Right said:
Fact is Obama built walls but Trump is not allowed to.
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Obama built fences where they should be built under the auspices of the 2006 Border Fence Act an Act duly passed through the Congress.

But keep digging. You eventually get to where the Right always gets...way down some rathole, waiting for the earth to be shoved in over them.
 
lurchadams said:
Then why isn't the government back open yet?
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Honest answer: Trump's people have probably either told him that it wouldn't survive a legal challenge or that the legal challenge would take too long. And, he really doesn't want to rob from Peter to pay Paul.
 
Moderate Right said:
You're right there. And wrong. Congress does do something. Nonstop political investigations.
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That is just part of the hate and blame game they seem best at. When told by the Army core of engineers that the New Orleans dikes ware not adequate for even an average hurricane they did what they are best at. Kick the can down the road and then wait to see who they could blame when it happened.

Unfortunately it was a black mayor who did not evacuate the poor and left them in harms way and a woman governor who had no clue how to use FEMA so someone else had to take the blame. You have to be real careful you don't blame minorities other wise they hit you with the race card. But Bush who turned over FEMA just like every other president had in the past was not a minority and could be blamed for anything.
 
jnug said:
Obama built fences where they should be built under the auspices of the 2006 Border Fence Act an Act duly passed through the Congress.

But keep digging. You eventually get to where the Right always gets...way down some rathole, waiting for the earth to be shoved in over them.
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all opinion
 
Moderate Right said:
But the "path of least resistance" pretty much means the wall will make it much harder and work to some degree. The border patrol, those at ground zero, want a wall. No one knows the situation better than they do. I mean we have a wall now. It's there for a reason. Even a poll here on DP said we should not take the walls down that we already have. There's a reason for that and there is a reason why Obama was allowed to put up barriers while president and Trump isn't allowed to put up even one inch.
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The support for the wall came in the form of using it in strategic locations versus the shore to shore wall Trump has proposed.
 
Ikari said:
If we built some comprehensive wall along the US-Mexico boarder, those things will likely be affected somewhat, though to what degree cannot be stated and for how long cannot be estimated. We already have tunnels, tunnels beat walls. And the wall won't encompass the whole of the US boarder, so there are plenty of other ways in.

The biggest drug problem we have in America, the one costing the most lives, isn't from illegal drugs smuggled over the US-Mexico boarders, it's opioids. So even at best, we're talking fractional changes to the overall system. Meanwhile, Trump's Shutdown is causing problems that only exacerbate each day it goes on and is affecting real Americans.

Trump's shutdown is lose/lose for America.
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We have data that shows that wall that have been built are very effective. What makes you think new walls won't be just as effective?

Do you think opioids are not being smuggled across the border? You are wrong.

Although most heroin enters America from Mexico, there are really two trafficking routes. Addicts west of the Mississippi mostly use Mexican brown-powder or black-tar heroin, which is sticky and viscous, whereas eastern users favour Colombian white-powder heroin. According to the DEA, in 2014 over 90% of samples classified as South American heroin were seized east of the Mississippi, while 97% of Mexican heroin was purchased to the west. The line is blurring—Mexicans are pushing into the white-powder trade, and black tar is creeping east—but it still exists.

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2017/05/11/inside-the-opioid-epidemic
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I agree, though, Schumer's shutdown IS causing problems. He should end it.
 
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