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The Wall Will Not Cost Anything

NebraskaFtball said:
I disagree. I believe it requires objective data to prove it inherent. The concept may be subjective, but the declaration requires substance. There is no substance here.
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But your opinion doesn't count. Mine doesn't count either. The opinions of the court Democrats go to will count when they don't allow Trump to do it and the opinions of SCOTUS will count when they overturn the liberal court's opinion.
 
OscarLevant said:
There will be a price paid, though, by the shorting of resources earmarked by the Military, so national security might be affected. If he can pull the dough from a pork barrel deal, that might work, but many of the constituents of the senator who got the pork deal through, they probably will suffer. Somebody has to pay, you don't get something for nothing.
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Most of you lefties and Libertarians think the Pentagon spends too much anyway. In any event, more money isn't going to be spent, a shell game will be played with the money already available.
 
Moderate Right said:
Most of you lefties and Libertarians think the Pentagon spends too much anyway. In any event, more money isn't going to be spent, a shell game will be played with the money already available.
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Note to "you righties":

If it comes from pork I can live with it.

If it affects military Readiness that would not be good
 
Moderate Right said:
Democrats were going to give him no wall. Pelosi and Schumer have said as much. They would only commit to more money for border security as long as it was not for a wall of any kind and they wouldn't even give him 5.7 for more border security. And don't give me any crap about previous deals they were working on. We're working on this now. A hatred of Trump is no reason to be 100% resistant.
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You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own vocabulary. I said it was the hostage taking stunt.
Any other president that did that also earned my anger as well. Any other congressman or senator, same thing.

BoehnerCryingGod.jpg
 
Moderate Right said:
if Trump declares a national emergency and pays for the wall out of funds that have already been approved by the Democrats for spending. Those dollars were not earmarked for anything in particular so they can be spent on anything. So, Congress does not have to approve additional spending for a wall.
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The Wall Will Not Cost Anything

...especially when we don't build it.
 
Moderate Right said:
But your opinion doesn't count. Mine doesn't count either. The opinions of the court Democrats go to will count when they don't allow Trump to do it and the opinions of SCOTUS will count when they overturn the liberal court's opinion.
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That’s fair. I don’t know that Trump will even pursue this route anyway. It’s looking more and more like he is abandoning the idea out of an understanding of it failing legally. Which I’m sure has been explained to him six ways from Sunday now by anyone and everyone with even a hint of legal expertise. So this is likely all moot anyway.
 
Moderate Right said:
if Trump declares a national emergency and pays for the wall out of funds that have already been approved by the Democrats for spending. Those dollars were not earmarked for anything in particular so they can be spent on anything. So, Congress does not have to approve additional spending for a wall.
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Exactly. Trump will get portions of the wall built regardless. He is using the democrat obstruction to weaken democrats in the eyes of the public for keeping the government shut down for reasons supported by only a small fraction of the total population of the US. It looks like a shrewd 2020 strategy.
 
marke said:
Exactly. Trump will get portions of the wall built regardless. He is using the democrat obstruction to weaken democrats in the eyes of the public for keeping the government shut down for reasons supported by only a small fraction of the total population of the US. It looks like a shrewd 2020 strategy.
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Got to differ with you there. It is Trump and the Republicans who are looking weaker in the eyes of the public because of the shutdown. Trump shouldn't have picked a fight he couldn't win regarding the shutdown. He is going to have declare the national emergency to build the wall because Chuck and Nancy ain't gonna budge on a physical wall.
 
Moderate Right said:
Got to differ with you there. It is Trump and the Republicans who are looking weaker in the eyes of the public because of the shutdown. Trump shouldn't have picked a fight he couldn't win regarding the shutdown. He is going to have declare the national emergency to build the wall because Chuck and Nancy ain't gonna budge on a physical wall.
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Trump picked a fight the democrats said he couldn't win when he challenged Hillary in the 2016 election.
 
marke said:
Trump picked a fight the democrats said he couldn't win when he challenged Hillary in the 2016 election.
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Not really sure what your point is there. A big majority of Americans are blaming Trump and the Republicans for the shutdown and the longer it goes on the more Trump and the Republicans are going to pay a higher and higher price. Chuck and Nancy are full aware of this and that is why they are holding out. That's just the reality.
 
marke said:
Trump picked a fight the democrats said he couldn't win when he challenged Hillary in the 2016 election.
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To be fair, had he not engaged in an illegal conspiracy to commit multiple felonies and cheated with Cohen and Pecker of AMI, considering he barely squeaked out an EC victory by less than 78,000 votes across three key states, then he likely does not beat Clinton.

Regardless, he cannot break the law and cheat his way out of this one. The public continues to blame the GOP and Trump for the shutdown. And as more and more people become affected, which they will exponentially as it drags on, then the blame will continue to reside with the ones responsible for not opening government.
 
NebraskaFtball said:
To be fair, had he not engaged in an illegal conspiracy to commit multiple felonies and cheated with Cohen and Pecker of AMI, considering he barely squeaked out an EC victory by less than 78,000 votes across three key states, then he likely does not beat Clinton.

Regardless, he cannot break the law and cheat his way out of this one. The public continues to blame the GOP and Trump for the shutdown. And as more and more people become affected, which they will exponentially as it drags on, then the blame will continue to reside with the ones responsible for not opening government.
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He hasn't broken the law. And, the courts would eventually decide if he has the power to declare a national emergency and build the wall or not and don't forget conservatives have a 5-4 advantage on the Supreme Court. By the way, Obama overreached his authority and the Supreme Court ruled 9-0 that he did.
 
Moderate Right said:
He hasn't broken the law.
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I vehemently disagree. Trump is an unindicted co-conspirator (Individual-1) to a criminal conspiracy, committing multiple felonies to effect the outcome of the 2016 election in his favor. His own personal attorney and fixer, Michael Cohen is going to prison in part because of his role in this illicit scheme. The owner of AMI (National Enquirer) David Pecker was provided with a non-prosecution agreement for his role in this conspiracy. Both of which have provided corroborating evidence to the Prosecutors of the SDNY, appointed by Trump himself mind you, who then presented that corroborating evidence to a Federal Court, and which a Federal Judge accepted as fully truthful and accurate. Trump faces serious legal jeopardy once out of office for these crimes.

And, the courts would eventually decide if he has the power to declare a national emergency and build the wall or not and don't forget conservatives have a 5-4 advantage on the Supreme Court. By the way, Obama overreached his authority and the Supreme Court ruled 9-0 that he did.
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Agreed, the courts would ultimately decide. And while it is just a guess, the precedence here, and the available data, coupled with the statements from Trump himself saying that he would essentially only declare a National Emergency as a means to fulfill a campaign promise, will result in him being shot down by the court.

And the ideological makeup of the court should have no bearing here. I thought the point of nominating originalist jurists was so that they did not legislate from the bench. You seem to be advocating, or expecting the exact opposite of that, and seem to hope they do legislate from the bench? Am I misreading you?
 
NebraskaFtball said:
I vehemently disagree. Trump is an unindicted co-conspirator (Individual-1) to a criminal conspiracy, committing multiple felonies to effect the outcome of the 2016 election in his favor. His own personal attorney and fixer, Michael Cohen is going to prison in part because of his role in this illicit scheme. The owner of AMI (National Enquirer) David Pecker was provided with a non-prosecution agreement for his role in this conspiracy. Both of which have provided corroborating evidence to the Prosecutors of the SDNY, appointed by Trump himself mind you, who then presented that corroborating evidence to a Federal Court, and which a Federal Judge accepted as fully truthful and accurate. Trump faces serious legal jeopardy once out of office for these crimes.



Agreed, the courts would ultimately decide. And while it is just a guess, the precedence here, and the available data, coupled with the statements from Trump himself saying that he would essentially only declare a National Emergency as a means to fulfill a campaign promise, will result in him being shot down by the court.

And the ideological makeup of the court should have no bearing here. I thought the point of nominating originalist jurists was so that they did not legislate from the bench. You seem to be advocating, or expecting the exact opposite of that, and seem to hope they do legislate from the bench? Am I misreading you?
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Your opinion is of no value. If Trump has broken laws then why hasn't he been arrested? Answer: He hasn't broken any. Oh yeah. That's right. The Mueller investigation isn't over yet. It's right around the corner. Be patient.

2020 is coming up. Face the fact, nothing will happen to Trump and he will be your president until at least January 2021. Do you really think 2/3's of the Senate are going to vote to remove Trump from office? Are you really that delusional?
 
Moderate Right said:
Your opinion is of no value. If Trump has broken laws then why hasn't he been arrested? Answer: He hasn't broken any.
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It is not my opinion. It is fact as laid out by SDNY in Federal Court. You're clearly not familiar with what an unindicted co-conspirator is. Google Richard Nixon sometime for reference.

He has not been arrested because of DOJ guidance that suggests a sitting President cannot be indicted while in office. Once out of office, all bets are off. Trump is facing serious legal jeopardy. The Prosecutors in SDNY would have NEVER laid out the evidence that shows him as an accessory to this criminal conspiracy if their intention was not to act. They have a legal obligation to act. And once DOJ guidance allows them, they will act.

Oh yeah. That's right. The Mueller investigation isn't over yet. It's right around the corner. Be patient.
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The Mueller investigation has nothing to do with the criminal activity Trump committed with Cohen and Pecker.

2020 is coming up. Face the fact, nothing will happen to Trump and he will be your president until at least January 2021. Do you really think 2/3's of the Senate are going to vote to remove Trump from office? Are you really that delusional?
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I never claimed anything you suggest about me here.
 
Moderate Right said:
Not really sure what your point is there. A big majority of Americans are blaming Trump and the Republicans for the shutdown and the longer it goes on the more Trump and the Republicans are going to pay a higher and higher price. Chuck and Nancy are full aware of this and that is why they are holding out. That's just the reality.
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Maybe Piglossy and Schemer will win their gamble and reap big wins in 2020. I suspect that is what this is all about. They do not really oppose border controls. They are just out to get Trump and those adversely affected by the shutdown are made to suffer the consequences
 
NebraskaFtball said:
To be fair, had he not engaged in an illegal conspiracy to commit multiple felonies and cheated with Cohen and Pecker of AMI, considering he barely squeaked out an EC victory by less than 78,000 votes across three key states, then he likely does not beat Clinton.

Regardless, he cannot break the law and cheat his way out of this one. The public continues to blame the GOP and Trump for the shutdown. And as more and more people become affected, which they will exponentially as it drags on, then the blame will continue to reside with the ones responsible for not opening government.
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Democrats keep blaming Trump for stealing the secrets from the DNC and giving them to Assange, sinking Hillary's hopes because of the DNC wickedness that was exposed in those dirty secrets. They cannot prove that lie is the truth but they have great motivation to keep propagating that lie as if it is true.
 
marke said:
Maybe Piglossy and Schemer will win their gamble and reap big wins in 2020. I suspect that is what this is all about. They do not really oppose border controls. They are just out to get Trump and those adversely affected by the shutdown are made to suffer the consequences
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Well, I totally agree that Democrats are just out to get Trump and the Republicans at all costs and could care less about government workers without paychecks because Democrats know that most of the country won't blame them for it so screw the government workers. Democrats don't and never have cared about spending 5 billion dollars and built walls under Obama. This is all a political game to them and government workers are just expendable pawns in a political game. BUT, the reality is, Trump and the Republicans have picked a fight they can't win. You shouldn't pick fights you can't win because if you can't win that means you lose.
 
marke said:
Democrats keep blaming Trump for stealing the secrets from the DNC and giving them to Assange, sinking Hillary's hopes because of the DNC wickedness that was exposed in those dirty secrets. They cannot prove that lie is the truth but they have great motivation to keep propagating that lie as if it is true.
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First, I’m not a Democrat. Second, re-read my post. It had nothing to do with the theft of emails from the DNC, the Clinton campaign, or with respect to Julian Assange. It has to do with what the SDNY was able to corroborate in Federal Court.
 
Moderate Right said:
Well, I totally agree that Democrats are just out to get Trump and the Republicans at all costs and could care less about government workers without paychecks because Democrats know that most of the country won't blame them for it so screw the government workers. Democrats don't and never have cared about spending 5 billion dollars and built walls under Obama. This is all a political game to them and government workers are just expendable pawns in a political game. BUT, the reality is, Trump and the Republicans have picked a fight they can't win. You shouldn't pick fights you can't win because if you can't win that means you lose.
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Trump is doing the right thing. If he fails to "win" he can still rest his head at night knowing he did what was right.
 
NebraskaFtball said:
First, I’m not a Democrat. Second, re-read my post. It had nothing to do with the theft of emails from the DNC, the Clinton campaign, or with respect to Julian Assange. It has to do with what the SDNY was able to corroborate in Federal Court.
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What did they corroborate, a crime committed by Trump? Why have they not indicted him then? Everybody knows they desperately want to.
 
Moderate Right said:
Well, reality is that this would be a part of the wall. Part is better than nothing.
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It would be because as has been proven already, people will go find the path of least resistance. Trump has earmarked $43 million for technology and hiring 5,000 more BP agents; the latter doesn't sound like enough to cover the border with or without the wall.
 
Moderate Right said:
if Trump declares a national emergency and pays for the wall out of funds that have already been approved by the Democrats for spending. Those dollars were not earmarked for anything in particular so they can be spent on anything. So, Congress does not have to approve additional spending for a wall.
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While it remains to be seen if this would pass a court challenge, it does seem like it could technically be done. However, it would be a terrible precedent to set for presidential power. It would fall along in the similar vein of the horrible method in which Obamacare was passed, in that it wasn't their proper authority to do such a thing but they could force it on the people by calling it a tax.
 
marke said:
Trump is doing the right thing. If he fails to "win" he can still rest his head at night knowing he did what was right.
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But that is a far cry from having most of America's support. Anyone with a cause could say the very same thing, no matter how much in the minority their cause is.
 
ElChupacabra said:
It would be because as has been proven already, people will go find the path of least resistance. Trump has earmarked $43 million for technology and hiring 5,000 more BP agents; the latter doesn't sound like enough to cover the border with or without the wall.
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But the "path of least resistance" pretty much means the wall will make it much harder and work to some degree. The border patrol, those at ground zero, want a wall. No one knows the situation better than they do. I mean we have a wall now. It's there for a reason. Even a poll here on DP said we should not take the walls down that we already have. There's a reason for that and there is a reason why Obama was allowed to put up barriers while president and Trump isn't allowed to put up even one inch.
 
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