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Thread: Russians rigging 2016 elections - another piece revealed

  1. #21
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    Re: Russians rigging 2016 elections - another piece revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by Slavister View Post
    Would you stick to that point if it's proven that Russians changed the critical vote counts? Does "playing the game better" include getting help from another nation to change votes that benefit you? Maybe so...
    No. If it made a difference in the actual outcome, than that would be a big problem. But I don't think it did.
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    Re: Russians rigging 2016 elections - another piece revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Are you saying that he directed Manafort to share the polling data with Russian Intelligence?
    No. I'm saying selling hats and doing massive meet-and-greets with average working stiffs instead of schmoozing with rich campaign donors in 5-star hotels in New York, Washington, and California was brilliant.
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    Re: Russians rigging 2016 elections - another piece revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    No. I'm saying selling hats and doing massive meet-and-greets with average working stiffs instead of schmoozing with rich campaign donors in 5-star hotels in New York, Washington, and California was brilliant.
    What does that have to do with the Trump campaign sharing polling data with Russian Intelligence?

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    Re: Russians rigging 2016 elections - another piece revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by Slavister View Post
    I've already discussed before that it's very likely Russians attempted and succeeded in rigging at least some vote counts in 2016 elections (Russians attacking vote counts). Recent (accidental) revelations about Manafort sharing proprietary polling data with Russians is just another piece that falls into place here.

    We also know Russian hackers stole Clinton's proprietary models as well:



    So, how would Russian hackers use these data analytics models from both sides? Why did they really want to have all that info?

    Knowing which polling places to target and break into is the most obvious answer IMO.

    Then, of course there is this:



    and this



    etc, etc..
    polling data is public knowledge.
    umm lets see.

    election propaganda is amazing and you realize that the US very much does the same thing in other countries?
    we have been doing it for years so the fact that well someone does it to us gives us little room to cry about it.

    overall the influence was non-existent and not a factor. people were either going to vote for trump or not vote for trump
    based on what he said vs propaganda spewed.

    unless someone can show with evidence that russia actually changed vote counts on voting machines or voting systems
    their was nothing rigged.

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    Re: Russians rigging 2016 elections - another piece revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    What does that have to do with the Trump campaign sharing polling data with Russian Intelligence?
    Nothing, other than one made a difference in the outcome of the election while the other didn't, unless one believes in the Easter Bunny, Sasquatch, the Tooth Fairy, and Hillary. And sharing polling data with Russian intelligence? Really? Or are you referring to the Ukrainian political consultant with alleged ties to Russian intelligence? Until we get to the bottom of Russian intelligence's links to Christopher Steel's Orbis Business Intelligence and it's role in providing information for the Trump Dossier, I can't get too excited about Manafort and polling data. I mean, if the Russians really wanted Trump elected (and didn't just desire to disrupt our elections), why feed dirt on Trump, true or not, to people with links to Hillary's campaign?
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    Re: Russians rigging 2016 elections - another piece revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    What does that have to do with the Trump campaign sharing polling data with Russian Intelligence?
    Nothing...He just wanted to babble about New York and California...A poor diversion to cover for the traitors he supports

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    Re: Russians rigging 2016 elections - another piece revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    polling data is public knowledge.
    As was widely reported, some was public but some was private. The same kind of private data analytics that Russians had to steal from Clinton's campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    election propaganda is amazing and you realize that the US very much does the same thing in other countries?
    we have been doing it for years so the fact that well someone does it to us gives us little room to cry about it.
    First, if other countries find their leaders colluding with US military to influence their elections, and they disqualify those leaders, I'd have no problem with it.

    Second, I am talking about changing vote counts, not just propaganda.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    overall the influence was non-existent and not a factor.
    You have no idea

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    unless someone can show with evidence that russia actually changed vote counts on voting machines or voting systems their was nothing rigged
    We know Russians tried (see links in OP and others in earlier OP).
    We know they are masterful in cyber attacks, maybe the best.
    We know this would be their FIRST priority, not just because of the culture (affecting vote counts is in Russian blood) but also because it would clearly get to their objective in most direct way.
    We know Trump would have no problems helping them help him.
    We know Trump administration would NOT want to investigate this matter and would love to hide any hints of such affected vote counts.
    We know security has been lacking on many voting systems and officials did not care too much about it.
    We know of reports confirming lack of security awareness of voting staff

    And even with all that, we see more and more evidence rising related to Russian attacks on vote counts.

    At some point, even if FBI or DHS uncovers sufficient evidence, what do you think are the chances Trump appointees would make it public? The only hope is the leaks (which will of course be immediately discredited by the administration). And those that leak THIS kind of info would know they are risking their life.

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    Re: Russians rigging 2016 elections - another piece revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by Slavister View Post
    I've already discussed before that it's very likely Russians attempted and succeeded in rigging at least some vote counts in 2016 elections (Russians attacking vote counts). Recent (accidental) revelations about Manafort sharing proprietary polling data with Russians is just another piece that falls into place here.
    And yet another small piece: Trump paid for rigging of polls in his favor. Not surprising of course. Anyone thinks he would mind rigging vote counts or to pay someone to do it?

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    Re: Russians rigging 2016 elections - another piece revealed

    No surprises here... another piece of evidence from the Mueller report...

    Mueller Report Draws Attention To Russian Election Interference In Florida : NPR
    In particular, the report said, "We understand the FBI believes that this operation enabled [Russian military intelligence] to gain access to the network of at least one Florida county government" during the 2016 campaign.
    ...
    The special counsel's report also said that Russian intelligence had installed malware on the vendor's network, something VR Systems denies.
    ...
    VR Systems also was the supplier of electronic poll books that malfunctioned on Election Day in Durham County, N.C., in 2016. The state believes user error by election and poll workers was responsible but says it has not definitively determined the cause.
    ...
    The Mueller report notes another successful breach in the summer of 2016, involving Illinois' voter registration system.
    ...
    some cybersecurity experts have raised the possibility that hackers planted malicious software that remains undetected.

    Of course Russian efforts have continued and will continue...

    Russian Hackers Have Attacked Several 2018 Campaigns, Microsoft Says | Fortune
    A group of hackers believed to be tied to Russia’s military have launched spear-phishing campaigns against at least three candidates running for election in 2018, a Microsoft executive said Thursday.
    Now that Mueller is done, I have doubts Trump administration will be spearheading more investigations into the extent to which Russians hacked the voter systems and counting systems to benefit Trump...

    Hackers do NOT want to leave a trace after making their changes. The examples we see above are just the attempts that FAILED in that we found out about them. How many attempts did NOT fail?

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