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[W:119]Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Logical1 finally admits he is a pro-choice supporter! Logical1 supports same sex marriages, transgenders in the military, legalized reefer, strict separation of church and state, the right to kneel during the national anthem at public events, freedom of the press and nude selfies among consenting adults.

Rock it, bro.

Not to mention arsenic in the water, child labor and drinking while driving.
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

This post is a total lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have go admit that, if you are pro life (and I am) you do support less personal freedom to obtain an abortion which was his point. Liberals and conservatives both support reduced freedom depending on the topic.
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Nope, can you count them? How many should there be? My point was, and remains, that without addressing a specific rule or regulation, or even a specific class of them, there is little possibility of a rational discussion.

See my post #39!!!!!
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

A liberal on this forum said seriously the government should start controlling the prices of drugs.

Are you a diabetic?
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Trump promised to tackle rocketing pharmaceutical prices.

Trump also promised to repair the US physical infrastructure.

We have seen no progress whatsoever in either and yet they are critical.

Not to overlook Trump just named a Big Pharma executive to lead the Health and Human Services Department....:shock:
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

IF the government controls the price of drugs, lots of companies would go out of business.

When the government told car manufacturers that they had to start using safety glass:

"This will bankrupt the car companies! It will put them out of business!"

When they required dual system redundancy on brakes:

"This will bankrupt the car companies! It will put them out of business!"

When they required collapsible steering columns:

"This will bankrupt the car companies! It will put them out of business!"

When they mandated seat belts:

"This will bankrupt the car companies! It will put them out of business!"

When they outlawed leaded gasoline and required catalytic converters:

"This will bankrupt the car companies! It will put them out of business!"

I fail to see how outlawing charging 500 bucks a month for insulin will put Eli Lilly out of business.
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

I dont. I subscribe to what Jefferson said.-----------------the best possible government is the LEAST possible government.

So then you do support pro-choice, same sex marriage and a strict separation of church and state? Good for you!
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Simple-------------go back to regular old fashion math. It worked well for more than 200 years in this country.

Math is only one aspect of education. What part does government play in all of education?
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Trump promised to tackle rocketing pharmaceutical prices.

Well, there is forcing previously hidden pricing information into the market.

Trump Administration Rules to Show Hospital Prices Online
https://www.nextavenue.org/hospital-prices-online/

Aug 30, 2018 - Patients will be able to see a list of a hospital's standard charges online starting Jan. 1, under guidelines proposed by the Trump administration.

Hospitals to post prices online under new Trump administration rule
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/.../hospitals-to-post-prices-online-under-new-tr...
Aug 3, 2018 - Hospitals will be required to post the prices they charge for surgeries and other medical procedures online under a new Trump administration ...

Trump is reforming healthcare with his push for online hospital pricing
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/.../trump-is-reforming-healthcare-with-his-push...
Aug 7, 2018 - Last Thursday, the Trump administration came out with a new rule that requires hospitalsto post online the prices they charge for medical ...Missing: list ‎| ‎Must include: ‎list

Let the free market work, force open competition on pricing. Could be a step in a better direction, depending on how the market responds.

Trump also promised to repair the US physical infrastructure.

We have seen no progress whatsoever in either and yet they are critical.
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

I do not think you are paying attention. Pharmaceutical companies are struggling left and right.

Johnson and Johnson had to pay 4.7 billion because allegedly they had asbestos in their baby powder products which cause ovarian cancer. Completely false. There is actually no evidence that talc even causes cancer.

:lamo That is the funniest thing I've heard in days. Big Pharma is struggling! Haha! Maybe struggling to hit the huge amount of profit they hit the previous year (doubtful). 4.7 billion is not making them 'struggle' since they've had a 8.7 increase in revenue in their second quarter of 2018. And just guess what their money maker is?

Pharmaceuticals, particularly cancer drugs, have fueled J&J’s success. In the quarter, the business posted $10.4 billion in revenue, a 20 percent year-over-year increase that topped expectations of $9.95 billion, according to consensus estimates from StreetAccount. Excluding the net impact of acquisitions and divestitures, worldwide sales rose 17.6 percent.

Worldwide sales of oncology drugs reached $2.46 billion, an increase of 42.2 percent, or 38.7 percent when excluding currency, from the year-ago quarter.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/16/johnson-and-johnson-q2-2018-earnings.html
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

You have go admit that, if you are pro life (and I am) you do support less personal freedom to obtain an abortion which was his point. Liberals and conservatives both support reduced freedom depending on the topic.

Thanks, X. Your explanation is exactly my point. And, yes, liberals and conservatives both support reduced freedom depending on the topic.
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Was it Donald Trump?

Trump's Dramatic New Proposal To Lower Medicare Drug Prices By Linking To An International Index

I guess I agree with him. Canada does it. Why should Americans have to sneak across to border to get affordable drugs?

Well guess what?

20180519_LDC486.png
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Simple-------------go back to regular old fashion math. It worked well for more than 200 years in this country.


Which is why American students score lower on standardized math exams than almost any other country?

https://www.oecd.org/unitedstates/PISA-2012-results-US.pdf

Among the 34 OECD countries, the United States performed below average in mathematics in 2012 and is ranked 27th (this is the best estimate, although the rank could be between 23 and 29 due to sampling and measurement error). Performance in reading and science are both close to the OECD average. The United States ranks 17 in reading, (range of ranks: 14 to 20)

I wonder why you think it is working so well?
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Well, there is forcing previously hidden pricing information into the market.

Trump Administration Rules to Show Hospital Prices Online
https://www.nextavenue.org/hospital-prices-online/

Aug 30, 2018 - Patients will be able to see a list of a hospital's standard charges online starting Jan. 1, under guidelines proposed by the Trump administration.

Hospitals to post prices online under new Trump administration rule
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/.../hospitals-to-post-prices-online-under-new-tr...
Aug 3, 2018 - Hospitals will be required to post the prices they charge for surgeries and other medical procedures online under a new Trump administration ...

Trump is reforming healthcare with his push for online hospital pricing
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/.../trump-is-reforming-healthcare-with-his-push...
Aug 7, 2018 - Last Thursday, the Trump administration came out with a new rule that requires hospitalsto post online the prices they charge for medical ...Missing: list ‎| ‎Must include: ‎list

Let the free market work, force open competition on pricing. Could be a step in a better direction, depending on how the market responds.

Would you support the idea of reducing the number of pharmaceuticals advertised on television? IMHO mass marketing of pharmaceuticals is not in the consumer's best interest, including overall drug costs.
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

I dont. I subscribe to what Jefferson said.-----------------the best possible government is the LEAST possible government.

Yeah. That's exactly what a Marxist would say who's trying to hide the fact that he's a Marxist. That's not what Jefferson said, and it's not what the person who said it actually said.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_(Thoreau)
 
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Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Not to overlook Trump just named a Big Pharma executive to lead the Health and Human Services Department....:shock:

Another Swamp appointment! What is worse is the fact that much (not everyone) of the GOP doesn't seem to care at all. Trump's base, the people who voted for Trump to drain the swamp never understood what they wanted to begin with.
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Thanks, X. Your explanation is exactly my point. And, yes, liberals and conservatives both support reduced freedom depending on the topic.

Well, at least you read it. I don’t think the OP did. Happy New Year, Risky.
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Well, at least you read it. I don’t think the OP did. Happy New Year, Risky.

LOL! Happy New Year and all the best to you as well, old friend.

It gives me hope that Americans can disagree and still respect and listen to one another. It won't be easy but we are all going to make it. OK, maybe not apstd.
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Why do liberals want a huge costly over bearing government that tries to control every aspect of our lives? For every rule or regulation the government comes up with people lose more freedom. What is it with the liberal psyche that makes them want to totally control the lives of other people? Why do liberals think they need to tell me what I should do or not do in minute detail????????????

I'm certainly not a liberal, but my opinion, and take it as you wish, is that they are just overly-emotional children seeking a new mommy or daddy figure to take care of them because reality is just too challenging for them to handle. They don't want to be responsible for themselves, they want to be coddled. They won't agree, of course, but that seems to be the reality of it.

I disagree with liberals on oh so many things, but saying that they advocate the total control of people’s lives by the government is a gross misrepresentation.

When liberals can't get their policy, political or social agenda passed by legislation, they resort to the courts.
The examples of this are legion.

When they can't get it past the courts, they resort to extortion.
Credit-Card Companies Can’t Stop Mass Shootings

In this latest, liberals are pressuring credit card companies into ceasing to do legal business with legal and legitimate firearms manufacturers with legal and legitimate firearms purchasers exercising their second amendment rights as a means to choke access to legal purchasers of firearms to to do legal business with legal firearms manufacturers, simply because they don't like firearms, and no one is asking or demanding that they purchase one.

Yet, the liberals demand that everyone buys ObamaCare, for example.

The media appointed 'new face' of the democratic party supports a new 'green revolution' (read political buddy's taxpayer funded payoff - same tactic as Obama), with economy destroying 80% tax rate.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Ambitious Plan to Save the Planet | The ...
https://newrepublic.com/article/.../alexandria-ocasio-cortezs-ambitious-plan-save-plane...
Jul 3, 2018 - “The Green New Deal we are proposing will be similar in scale to the ... But those stories also note the political obstacles in Ocasio-Cortez's way. ... If @Ocasio2018 wins, it'll be a historic victory for the climate movement.

So X Factor, I don't think you've been paying attention to the tactics of the liberals and the left.

Do you have ANY idea how many rules and regulations big government has come up with? Many are outlandishly ignorant.

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.
Book III, 27
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tacitus

The liberals / left have historically been a source of excessive and needless (except in their minds) laws and regulations.

Where clearly the better direction is:
"That government is best which governs least...", was actually found in Thoreau's Civil Disobedience. Thoreau was apparently paraphrasing the motto of The United States Magazine and Democratic Review: "The best government is that which governs least."[SUP][17][/SUP] Thoreau expanded it significantly:

I heartily accept the motto,—"That government is best which governs least;" and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which I also believe,—"That government is best which governs not at all;" and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have. Government is at best but an expedient; but most governments are usually, and all governments are sometimes, inexpedient.
— Thoreau, Civil Disobedience[SUP][18][/SUP]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_(Thoreau)

I guess my libertarian streak is showing.
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Would you support the idea of reducing the number of pharmaceuticals advertised on television? IMHO mass marketing of pharmaceuticals is not in the consumer's best interest, including overall drug costs.

Yes I would. A patient without the knowledge necessary shouldn't be going to a doctor's office demanding this pill or that pill just because a 30 second commercial convinced them that's what they needed.

Further, I don't think that drug reps giving away all kinds of freebies to doctors is appropriate either. Medications are distilled and concentrated poisons, that just happen to be prescribed at the appropriate dose. Serious stuff, and it needs to be treated exactly that seriously.

The doctor, with his education and his Hippocratic oath, should be solely interested in their patient's well being and healing, and little more.
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Would you support the idea of reducing the number of pharmaceuticals advertised on television? IMHO mass marketing of pharmaceuticals is not in the consumer's best interest, including overall drug costs.

Why is their money not as good as any other advertiser? Why shouldn't anyone who wants to be able to put an ad on TV? I mean, in theory, I agree with you, but you're effectively cutting into the market of radio, television and Internet companies.
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Why do liberals want a huge costly over bearing government that tries to control every aspect of our lives? For every rule or regulation the government comes up with people lose more freedom. What is it with the liberal psyche that makes them want to totally control the lives of other people? Why do liberals think they need to tell me what I should do or not do in minute detail????????????

Every law is an impingement on someone's freedom. Every single law.

Now, unless you are of the opinion that all laws are bad, then all we are going to discuss are which laws are good/bad.

The Right is typically railing against government overreach such as the EPA or banking regulations, etc.

"DEREGULATION!" is their mantra, and they point to some 'outrage' that has occured as a result of government regulations of one sort of another.

What they fail to do, IMO, is go back and ask themselves "Why does this regulation or law exist in the first place? Why was something that was legal made illegal?" and "What is the likelihood that making it legal again will result in the consequences that brought about the regulation or law in the first place?"

I'm old enough to remember when the EPA was created. Before the EPA and its myriad regulations, it was legal for a polluter in one state to dump its toxins into a river in that state. Those toxins then made their way into the water supply of downstream states. Those states were being poisoned by a polluter in another state and there was almost nothing they could do about it, save go to court, a process that could literally take years. All the while the citizens and the crops of the downstream states had to be exposed to those toxins. The EPA was created to stop these kinds of problems.

If it were up to the automobile industry, there would be no emissions standards and we could all suck up blue exhaust today. Emissions standards reduce air pollution, but they cut into profits. The industry leaders literally and proudly argued against seat belts and airbags and crash standards. Sure, they save lives, but again, they cut into profits. Government regulations overcame industry objections when, through scientific studies, it was proved that seat belts and airbags and crash standards not only saved lives but saved states money by reducing county emergency costs.

The crash of 1929 came as a result of bankers and brokers turning the stock markets and banks into casinos with other people's money, the money of their depositors. Millions of citizens lost their life savings, their pensions, everything they had. All because greedy and irresponsible people were not restrained from dangerous banking and investing practices. In response, we now have the FDIC, which insures depositors funds in the event a bank goes under. To be a part of the FDIC, bankers have to agree to certain prudent practices regarding their depositors' funds. Failure to adhere to prudent practices will result in the loss of their membership in the FDIC and who would bank with such an outfit?

These are just a few examples of how and why we have federal regulations, what some like to call "nanny-state' laws. I'm not saying that regulations should never be reviewed or reconsidered. I am saying that most laws and regulations exist for a good reason.

Say what you will, but I like the fact that toy manufacturers can't sell Lawn Darts any more. I like the fact that many cities have cleaner air and water than they did back in the 50s and 60s. I like the fact that food suppliers have to tell us what we are eating - before we eat it. I'm glad we have a choice in phone service providers, something that did not and could not exist before the government broke up AT&T.
 
Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Why is their money not as good as any other advertiser? Why shouldn't anyone who wants to be able to put an ad on TV? I mean, in theory, I agree with you, but you're effectively cutting into the market of radio, television and Internet companies.

It would be cutting into radio, television and Internet markets. I won't deny that. Still I believe that it would be an idea worthy of consideration.

When I am outside the US I can't say that I watch much television. Hell, I don't watch that much in the US. It appears to me, however, that no nation on earth advertises pharmaceuticals like the US. Some television programs would not exist were it not for pharma ads.

Marketing pharmaceuticals in the US a huge business, though all said and done it probably is more harmful than not. Big pharma creates maladies and pimps pills and potions to make it all better. Big pharma is out of control and they are making a killing.

Cigarettes haven't been advertised on television for decades but television survived the ban of cigarette advertising. There are many products that can't be advertised on TV or are severely restricted in terms of content. Truth is Big Pharma, marketing and ad agencies and television and radio would and perhaps already do lobby the **** out of any meaningful and responsible change in the marketing of legal drugs in America.
 
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