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bye sarah

Xelor said:
Red:
It's also "cleaner" because the impact of one's choice is very limited and is comparatively easy to, if need be, undo, attenuate and/or recover from. When one buys a baseball bat, boat or building, very few folks will gain or lose as a result of one's thoughts and deeds that resulted in the purchase. Accordingly, that one makes the decision based, to a greater or lesser degree, on emotional influences.

When choosing the persons who will determine public policy, it's a wholly different matter. A vote has the potential to affect literally thousands, if not millions, of other people. Despite that being so, I doubt most folks put as much dispassionate thought into for whom they'll vote as they put into whether to buy "this" or "that" car.
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I would say "impulsive influences" at least for tangible product marketing. Yea, depending on the tangible product, you need good product literature to support the product. But you are really trying to hit resonant cords that is so closely in tune that the customer just falls into your lap. Intangible products marketing generally tries to play more to emotion combined with the Marketeer realizing that his customer is probably taking a longer view not only of the specific intangible product but even his participation as a customer in the intangibles marketplace.

Where political campaigns are getting murky is that they are now also trying to play to impulses. A Trump that literally claims to not have had any planks to his platform and just threw stuff out into the crowd noting what hit and what didn't really speaks to using marketing designed to play to impulse having really taken hold. That is actually pretty scary to your point.
 
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PleasantValley said:
A whole lot of people, here and elsewhere, believe only the right does it.
That is why I thought i would say otherwise.
If you look at some that quoted me on this post, you will see exactly that.
They do not believe the left ever does it.
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Of course the left does it. Left and right largely operate the same.
 
jnug said:
I would say "impulsive influences" at least for tangible product marketing. Yea, depending on the tangible product, you need good product literature to support the product. But you are really trying to hit resonant cords that is so closely in tune that the customer just falls into your lap. Intangible products marketing generally tries to play more to emotion combined with the Marketeer realizing that his customer is probably taking a longer view not only of the specific intangible product but even his participation as a customer in the intangibles marketplace.

Where political campaigns are getting murky is that they are now also trying to play to impulses. A Trump that literally claims to not have had any planks to his platform and just threw stuff out into the crowd noting what hit and what didn't really speaks to using marketing designed to play to impulse having really taken hold. That is actually pretty scary to your point.
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You know what marketers most heavily rely on emotional marketing techniques? Luxury goods marketers.
The do because, quite simply, emotion is really the only lever they have....After all, there's no logically good reason to buy a luxury version of a product that's also available as a non-luxury one. Nobody strictly following reason would, for instance, buy an MB E-Class instead of a Camry, Accord or Avalon. Reason isn't why one buys a Loro Piana cashmere sweater or an Hermes leather product instead of far more modestly constituted and priced competing products, maybe a Macy's cashmere sweater and a "typical" brand's saddles, boots and other tack. (Scare quotes on "typical" because nothing about equestrian sports is a non-luxury pursuit.)

It's not a big leap from the "feel good" messaging needed to market country clubs and luxury hotels to using the same tactics to promote Donald Trump. Does/has Trump read research literature like that linked-to above or has Trump merely got a "second sense" of sorts for marketing? I have no idea, but I suspect it's the latter. Whichever be the case, there's no way round the fact that the man is adept at marketing and messaging. There's no substance after the message delivery, but he's quite good at the messaging part of the process. One can't really deny him that, no matter how detestable one finds him.
 
justabubba said:
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/to...trump-press-secretary-sarah-huckabee-sanders/

who will the president appoint as the acting press secretary while all the prospects say 'no thanks'?

will be curious to learn sister sarah's next position

also wonder if she has spoken with Mueller yet
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I think Bozo the clown is still around, maybe.....


All kidding aside. This has got to be the worst presidency of all time. What's really bizarre is that the "base" are totally mezmerized, as if under some kind of warlock's spell. No.....you don't think......well, no one really knows, do they?
 
Xelor said:
You know what marketers most heavily rely on emotional marketing techniques? Luxury goods marketers.
The do because, quite simply, emotion is really the only lever they have....After all, there's no logically good reason to buy a luxury version of a product that's also available as a non-luxury one. Nobody strictly following reason would, for instance, buy an MB E-Class instead of a Camry, Accord or Avalon. Reason isn't why one buys a Loro Piana cashmere sweater or an Hermes leather product instead of far more modestly constituted and priced competing products, maybe a Macy's cashmere sweater and a "typical" brand's saddles, boots and other tack. (Scare quotes on "typical" because nothing about equestrian sports is a non-luxury pursuit.)

It's not a big leap from the "feel good" messaging needed to market country clubs and luxury hotels to using the same tactics to promote Donald Trump. Does/has Trump read research literature like that linked-to above or has Trump merely got a "second sense" of sorts for marketing? I have no idea, but I suspect it's the latter. Whichever be the case, there's no way round the fact that the man is adept at marketing and messaging. There's no substance after the message delivery, but he's quite good at the messaging part of the process. One can't really deny him that, no matter how detestable one finds him.
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The luxury market is a different animal. It is playing to things like status, exhibitions of wealth and power, place on the totem. But in truth, all they have to do is lay out the "luxury" features such that they are easily comparative to the standard fair and the price, obviously bearing a premium, and the customer who is going to be tweaked in that way tweaks himself. He has got the check written before he shows up and when he shows up he is fawned over until the transaction is completed, just as he expects he should be.

It is more of a product design and engineering exercise than it is a marketeer's market. There really is not all that much for a marketeer to do.
 
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jnug said:
The luxury market is a different animal. It is playing to things like status, exhibitions of wealth and power, place on the totem. But in truth, all they have to do is lay out the "luxury" features such that they are easily comparative to the standard fair and the price, obviously bearing a premium, and the customer who is going to be tweaked in that way tweaks himself. He has got the check written before he shows up and when he shows up he is fawned over until the transaction is completed, just as he expects he should be.

It is more of a product design and engineering market than it is a marketeer's market. There really is not all that much for a marketeer to do.
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To see what I mean, someday when you have time, go to a BMW or MB store and try out a 320i. Then go to a Honda store and check out an Accord. Compare the features, the drive, etc. Even in the online configurator tool, you can see that one'll pay a heck of a lot more for the BMW than for a comparably equipped Accord. (A 3er isn't exactly a luxury car, but it is a luxury brand; thus 3er buyers are buying brand cachet, but not brand cachet and "cush" as are 6er or 7er buyers.)

Hell, BMW wouldn't in their ads even make the comparison I just did because they know theirs is a luxury brand and Honda isn't. Indeed, BMW promotes itself as so luxurious that it mostly doesn't even mention other brands in its ads. By not doing so, BMW defines itself as sui generis. So do other luxury brands and those that aspire to be seen, to whatever extent (remember that brands don't have to be binarilly "this" or "that."), as such. It doesn't matter whether a BMW is sui generis; that is it, however, is part of BMW's message. For this discussion, that's what matters.

Luxury goods marketers have several key goals and all three are abetted by emotional marketing messages, not functional ones:
  • Shift the potential customer from demanding a "standard" product to demanding a luxury one. This is basically getting the customer to include the "I'm worth it" feeling as part of or wholly what they aim to purchase by buying a given product.
  • Keep XYZ emotional themes high on the customers "list" of utilities satisfied by buying the product. This has to do with keeping potential buyers from letting their better judgment kick-in.
  • Close the sale by convincing the buyer that "this" luxury good more completely provides the utility the buyer demands than does "that" luxury good.
All of that depends on branding, which is the foundation of emotional marketing. (That is why everything Trump sells has his name on it.)

Now think about those three bullet points in terms of Trump's political messages. They're all largely focused on something other triggering emotions? Not that I've noticed. Hell, MAGA is a purely emotional message and, in "textbook" emotional marketing fashion, it only alludes to something but it lets the message-receiver define what "great" meant before.

Think about it. Has Trump ever stated when America was great? No, because the instant he does that, the message loses its allure for all but those who agree that in whatever time period he notes, America was great. By leaving it to the listener, Trump will by that person be seen as making America great as it was whenever they thought it was. For someone like me, that might be the late '70s to the '90s. For Momma, it'd be the '30s and '40s. For others it may be a five or ten year period instead of a twenty or thirty year one.
 
D_NATURED said:
Uhhh...the left is not the mindless mob, they are the most fragmented and disorganized group. If we were on the same page, the Republicans wouldn't win ANY elections.

There's a lot of irony in a member of the group that brought our nation genuine idiots like Trump, Palin and others calling the left "mindless". As for eating your own, we'll see who walks away full when Trump's fat ass is on the spit. There's going to be a LOT of people denying they voted for him when he gets locked up.
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The quality of your post is graded by who gave it a LIKE.
 
JMR said:
I think her little girl might have caught her on TV and asked "Why you tell lies Mommy?" It was a question Sarah just couldn't field.
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Yeah, because little girls pay attention to politics like that.
 
Xelor said:
To see what I mean, someday when you have time, go to a BMW or MB store and try out a 320i. Then go to a Honda store and check out an Accord. Compare the features, the drive, etc. Even in the online configurator tool, you can see that one'll pay a heck of a lot more for the BMW than for a comparably equipped Accord. (A 3er isn't exactly a luxury car, but it is a luxury brand; thus 3er buyers are buying brand cachet, but not brand cachet and "cush" as are 6er or 7er buyers.)

Hell, BMW wouldn't in their ads even make the comparison I just did because they know theirs is a luxury brand and Honda isn't. Indeed, BMW promotes itself as so luxurious that it mostly doesn't even mention other brands in its ads. By not doing so, BMW defines itself as sui generis. So do other luxury brands and those that aspire to be seen, to whatever extent (remember that brands don't have to be binarilly "this" or "that."), as such. It doesn't matter whether a BMW is sui generis; that is it, however, is part of BMW's message. For this discussion, that's what matters.

Luxury goods marketers have several key goals and all three are abetted by emotional marketing messages, not functional ones:

  • [*]Shift the potential customer from demanding a "standard" product to demanding a luxury one. This is basically getting the customer to include the "I'm worth it" feeling as part of or wholly what they aim to purchase by buying a given product.
  • Keep XYZ emotional themes high on the customers "list" of utilities satisfied by buying the product. This has to do with keeping potential buyers from letting their better judgment kick-in.
  • Close the sale by convincing the buyer that "this" luxury good more completely provides the utility the buyer demands than does "that" luxury good.
All of that depends on branding, which is the foundation of emotional marketing. (That is why everything Trump sells has his name on it.)

Now think about those three bullet points in terms of Trump's political messages. They're all largely focused on something other triggering emotions? Not that I've noticed. Hell, MAGA is a purely emotional message and, in "textbook" emotional marketing fashion, it only alludes to something but it lets the message-receiver define what "great" meant before.

Think about it. Has Trump ever stated when America was great? No, because the instant he does that, the message loses its allure for all but those who agree that in whatever time period he notes, America was great. By leaving it to the listener, Trump will by that person be seen as making America great as it was whenever they thought it was. For someone like me, that might be the late '70s to the '90s. For Momma, it'd be the '30s and '40s. For others it may be a five or ten year period instead of a twenty or thirty year one.
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Except there is no shifting required. The luxury customer is already where the luxury product provider wants him to be. It comes with the territory. It becomes much more a product design, engineering and development effort, with little inventive Marketing since the path to the luxury customer is well known with few if any even unknown knowns. The exercise really tends to jump from product design, engineering and development over anything inventive on the Marketing end to a Sales Environment that reinforces everything the luxury buyer is already bringing to the transaction which of course includes not just a willingness but an insistence on paying a premium price which actually enhances the luxury customer's experience. In fact, luxury providers often do very little marketing and advertising for the luxury ends of their product offerings. See much marketing or advertising effort for a 7 series BMW? If you do see any is it anywhere but in a luxury focused periodical which a buyer also has to seek out?

If there is a dichotomy it is that the luxury customer, assuming he is monied, is often fairly "economical" to the point of being considered cheap in every other transactional environment other than his or her luxury purchases.
 
Hopefully the POTUS will tap JOHN BOLTON, or JAY SEKULOW...
 
holbritter said:
Yeah, because little girls pay attention to politics like that.
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But I bet they hear it at school.

It has to be pretty tough on her children, being raised in a very Christian home, where lying means a trip to Hell, and the children are discovering their mother is a professional liar. On the other hand, I suppose they're learning the true meaning of their parent's religion.
 
jnug said:
Except there is no shifting required. The luxury customer is already where the luxury product provider wants him to be. It comes with the territory. It becomes much more a product design, engineering and development effort, with little inventive Marketing since the path to the luxury customer is well known with few if any even unknown knowns. The exercise really tends to jump from product design, engineering and development over anything inventive on the Marketing end to a Sales Environment that reinforces everything the luxury buyer is already bringing to the transaction which of course includes not just a willingness but an insistence on paying a premium price which actually enhances the luxury customer's experience. In fact, luxury providers often do very little marketing and advertising for the luxury ends of their product offerings. See much marketing or advertising effort for a 7 series BMW? If you do see any is it anywhere but in a luxury focused periodical which a buyer also has to seek out?

If there is a dichotomy it is that the luxury customer, assuming he is monied, is often fairly "economical" to the point of being considered cheap in every other transactional environment other than his or her luxury purchases.
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Shifting is most certainly required, and aspirational marketing, a sui generis emotional marketing strategy, is among the main tools marketers use to effect the shift.

There is, of course, a segment of the luxury marketplace where shifting (from "standard" goods/brands to luxury ones) isn't required, but that segment is comparatively very small. To continue the car theme, BMW just barely "plays" in that segment.


Blue:
No, but that merely indicates that BMW isn't primarily positioning the 7er as an aspirational luxury product.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Yeah. That my pillow guy is a creepy sumbitch. He’d be perfect. And he always has that cross on a short chain hanging purposely out of his collar. Pimping Jesus to sell pillows.
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I never noticed the cross until I read your post and saw one of his ads, just now!

:thumbs:
 
Rudy G. He lies with the best of them.
 
I don't know if anybody notices. Sara just came out for her 10 minute Press Conference and just dug a way deeper hole for Flynn who is a guy I think they like over there at that end of Penn Av.

She just intoned the whole "he was framed nonsense" which Flynn has got to leave in his rearview at this point or he is going to be screwed over royally by Judge Sullivan.

This WH cannot even get it right when they "think" they are trying to help somebody. What a clown show!
 
JMR said:
Little girls can usually tell when Mommy is lying. In my experience.
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Probably. So when the little girl asks her mommy a question about Trump or the state of the nation, because that's what all little girls ask their moms, she'll probably know if mommy is lying. Got it.
 
Xelor said:
What you've described above is the act of analysis and reasoning and the will the acknowledge your own strengths and weaknesses and comport yourself so as to maximize the returns of your strengths and use them also to abate the impact of your weaknesses. Does your malady mean you have to work harder to overcome or "get" certain things? Yes, it sure does. That is what it is...what is there to do about that? The Serenity Prayer, which is what we all are supposed to say about the respective personal challenges we face. Some of us do and some don't.

Purple: I think you meant "holistic?" That's what I interpreted it as. Shouldn't I have?



So people have been doing exactly that for ages. Even kids do it. To wit:
  • My kids know me well enough to know what my "hot buttons" are and they know that on most, if not all, important matters, emotional appeals don't work with me. As a consequence, they framed their appeals for my approbation of "this or that" that they wanted to do/receive based on some sort of case that didn't go near emotion.

    Parents and teachers use exactly the same tactics when appealing to their kids/charges. What parent hasn't used so-called reverse psychology, for instance, to get their kids to behave in a given way? One can't do that if one doesn't know what are the kid's "hot buttons." (Of course, parents and teachers have additional means that kids/students don't.)
In business learning a client's "hot buttons" is part of what relationship management is about -- one gathers the very same data, albeit not as digital data as is done on social media, and performs the very same analysis as do psychographics, but one does it one's head because doing so is instinctive and learned from childhood.

While you're correct that poli-sci can be precise to an individual level, as a practical matter, political strategists/scientists aren't ever going to drill the tactics to an individual level. They won't simply because it's uneconomic for them to do so. Marketers do drive to that level in selected selling situations; however, mass-appeal selling situations aren't the ones in which marketers drill to that level.
  • Economic individual level "drill" --> High return on a given "sale;" small target audience; "buyers" tends to present themselves to the "seller"
  • Uneconomic individual-level "drill" --> Low return on a given "sale;" large target audience; "buyers" rarely have the opportunity to present themselves to the "seller"
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" Holographic" is the word I've used to visualize how I process things in my head. Holistic might be used as well. Its like every new thing arrives in a space and multiple subroutines examine it from all angles. Lookiung for connections to what is already established. Resolving conflicts that may arise. Does the new thing "fit"? If not is it incorrect or do existing "facts" need revision?

I prefer accuracy over the kinds of attachments most people have. I don't get a lot of the neurochemical rewards others do. So I don't have to hold onto things to keep those chemicals flowing.

I'm trying to keep my responses specific to your replies. So yes, some of this stuff is pretty commonplace. And psychographics as well.

Bjt there are an array of cognitive tools in play as well. Exploits of various "glitches" in our cognitive processes. Things gleaned from stage magicians' manipulation of attention. How con men work their marks. Why they can hit the same mark more than once. How to stimulate the release of various neurochemicals.

Religions were the first groups to really work these angles. Music/singing. Large interior spaces, all of the finery, and most of all, the anticipation of reward. In experiments, the dopamine reward comes when one starts the work that leads to a reward. Not when it is completed.

There are also elements that have to do with written versus spoken information. We have sophisticated BS filters for the spoken word, evolved over millennia. But almost none for the written word. As this information uses different channels in the sprain. Money as well, as a concept, affects our minds strangely, there was no "wealth" as we conceive of it when we were evolving. What we see today as "greed" is actually hunger for status. Status in the group confers better access to resources and the member of any species with the best access to resources is the most likely to reproduce. So these behaviors are strongly rewarded. Those rewards are addictive. This phenomenon explains a lot of what goes on in the modern world.

And I feel that Public Relations should he included in this conversation. That's the "Communications" degree track. Basically performing the kind of service to businesses that poly sci people do for political operations.

Now I'm gonna go back to recovering from this bug while I process part 3.
 
Do your job!:lamo:lamo:lamo
 
My vote is still for Palin! That would be great!!
 
Risky Thicket said:
Holy smokes! Offer is cut from the same bolt of cloth as Donald Trump. Why would anyone buy anything Offer flogs on television? But then charlatanry is still working for Trump.

What the hell kind of guy puts his tongue in a hooker's mouth? That is all I need to know about Offer. :2sick1:
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Red:
Well, for me, and assuming I want a Shamwow to begin with that'd depend on whether he's merely the "face" of Shamwow or whether he's the owner or otherwise collects a share of the sales.


WTH is a Shamwow? I presume it's that rag he's holding. I'm not sure why one'd buy a cleaning rag from anyone, but then I have many a towel and old t-shirt, and I have no shortage of containers that hold soapy water. Maybe not everyone is so blessed....


Blue:
LOL...Well, there is that too....
 
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