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Why Trump followers will continue to support him no matter what!!

independentusa said:
What if the Dems select let say, Joe Biden? Would you still feel he is too far left for you?
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Honestly, I am not a fan of Biden, but it would be a closer call. I'd prefer to see someone more likely to survive the job, but who would think Trump could have avoided a heart attack this far?
 
Nap said:
Depending on your views, certainly. If you don't agree with the agenda a person is pushing forward, then why would you vote for them?
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To keep a madman out of office.
 
Nap said:
I wouldn't say the worst GOPer is better than any Democrat. I don't like the Republican party either, I just dislike them less than the average Democrat. For instance, I would vote for Tulsi Gabbard over many in the Republican party because I share some of the views she is passionate about (mainly anti-war). The average Republican vs average Democrat, I am taking the Republican.
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Like I said, you are definitely a never a Dem. You will always tell yourself that the GOP candidate is better or at least no worse ans then go in and pull the lever for the GOP.
 
independentusa said:
Trump will never admit to having made a mistake and his followers are the same. They can not admit to having made a mistake, even when the evidence says otherwise. That is why they go along with his "fake news". They have to see any negative articles about trump as fake news or they have to admit to having made a mistake voting for him which they will not allow themselves to do. So don't expect Trump's true believers to ever back away from their worship of trump.
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Did they? With the choices provided, it was pick or choose one mistake or the other mistake. The only one's who liked either candidate were their supporters. You had 89% of Democrats vote for Hillary, 88% of Republicans vote for Trump. Normal numbers based on percentages of the history of how each party votes for their candidates. It was independents that gave Trump the Oval Office, not Republicans or Trump supporters. Only 27% of the total electorate identified with the Republican Party in November of 2016 vs. 31% with the Democratic Party. 40% of the electorate as independents. Trump won the independent vote, hence the presidency. Trump wouldn't be president if he hadn't won the independent vote pure and simple.

Most independents in 2016 didn't vote for either Trump or Clinton because they wanted one or the other to win. They voted for the candidate they least wanted to lose. You can see this in the fact Trump was seen negatively by 57% of independents, but Clinton was worse, 70% of independents viewed her unfavorably or negatively. Questions 10 and 11.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/l37rosbwjp/econTabReport_lv.pdf

Now you aren't going to change Trump's support among the avid Trumpers, just like you weren't going to change Obama supporters or G.W. Bush's or Bill Clinton supporters against them. That's politics, probably partisan party politics. Those you can change are the independents, the swing voters, those who are less or non-partisan, those who don't affiliate with either party. You have seen a change among them. But they aren't avid Trumpers or partisan party supporters.

You seen it in the fact independents went from voting 46-42 in favor of Trump to voting 54-42 for Democratic congressional candidates. You seen it in how independents view Trump, 48% favorable Trump at the end of January 2017 down to 38% today.

Which in my opinion isn't surprising. You had 42% of independents who disliked Trump so much they voted for Hillary. You had another 12% in 2016 who disliked both major party candidates so much they voted third party. You could look at their votes as having 54% of independents against Trump on election day, 58% of independents against Hillary Clinton if you want to use votes instead of favorable/unfavorable stats. Hillary is gone, wasn't on the ballot in 2018. So guess what, her 42% she received plus the 12% who voted third party, all anti Trumpers comes out to 54%. The exact number of independents who voted for Democratic congressional candidates in 2018.

Bottom line, no one is going to change an avid Trumper into an anti-trumper. No one could ever change a pro-Obamaite into an anti-Obamaite. But you can change swing voters, independents. I'd concentrate on them and forget the avid Trumpers. It was independents who put Trump into the White House, it will be independents who defeat him in 2020. That is unless the democrats nominate another Hillary Clinton. Another candidate as much disliked by America as a whole as Trump is.

So the question is, have the Democrats learned from 2016? Will they nominate a candidate that appeals to independents, Hillary didn't. Obama did. Obama won, Hillary lost. Think about it.
 
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Perotista said:
Did they? With the choices provided, it was pick or choose one mistake or the other mistake. The only one's who liked either candidate were their supporters. You had 89% of Democrats vote for Hillary, 88% of Republicans vote for Trump. Normal numbers based on percentages of the history of how each party votes for their candidates. It was independents that gave Trump the Oval Office, not Republicans or Trump supporters. Only 27% of the total electorate identified with the Republican Party in November of 2016 vs. 31% with the Democratic Party. 40% of the electorate as independents. Trump won the independent vote, hence the presidency. Trump wouldn't be president if he hadn't won the independent vote pure and simple.

Most independents in 2016 didn't vote for either Trump or Clinton because they wanted one or the other to win. They voted for the candidate they least wanted to lose. You can see this in the fact Trump was seen negatively by 57% of independents, but Clinton was worse, 70% of independents viewed her unfavorably or negatively. Questions 10 and 11.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/l37rosbwjp/econTabReport_lv.pdf

Now you aren't going to change Trump's support among the avid Trumpers, just like you weren't going to change Obama supporters or G.W. Bush's or Bill Clinton supporters against them. That's politics, probably partisan party politics. Those you can change are the independents, the swing voters, those who are less or non-partisan, those who don't affiliate with either party. You have seen a change among them. But they aren't avid Trumpers or partisan party supporters.

You seen it in the fact independents went from voting 46-42 in favor of Trump to voting 54-42 for Democratic congressional candidates. You seen it in how independents view Trump, 48% favorable Trump at the end of January 2017 down to 38% today.

Which in my opinion isn't surprising. You had 42% of independents who disliked Trump so much they voted for Hillary. You had another 12% in 2016 who disliked both major party candidates so much they voted third party. You could look at their votes as having 54% of independents against Trump on election day, 58% of independents against Hillary Clinton if you want to use votes instead of favorable/unfavorable stats. Hillary is gone, wasn't on the ballot in 2018. So guess what, her 42% she received plus the 12% who voted third party, all anti Trumpers comes out to 54%. The exact number of independents who voted for Democratic congressional candidates in 2018.

Bottom line, no one is going to change an avid Trumper into an anti-trumper. No one could ever change a pro-Obamaite into an anti-Obamaite. But you can change swing voters, independents. I'd concentrate on them and forget the avid Trumpers. It was independents who put Trump into the White House, it will be independents who defeat him in 2020. That is unless the democrats nominate another Hillary Clinton. Another candidate as much disliked by America as a whole as Trump is.

So the question is, have the Democrats learned from 2016? Will they nominate a candidate that appeals to independents, Hillary didn't. Obama did. Obama won, Hillary lost. Think about it.
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I don't think if things keep on going the way they are for Trump, the Dems may not be able to put a candidate up for the presidency that is disliked as much as Trump.
 
independentusa said:
I don't think if things keep on going the way they are for Trump, the Dems may not be able to put a candidate up for the presidency that is disliked as much as Trump.
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I don't know. 2020 in my opinion will be like 2016 was, an election that is the Democrats to lose. I don't think Trump won the election in 2016 as Hillary lost it. I don't think Trump can win in 2020, but the Democrats could lose it. One advantage the Democrats have for 2020, Trump is a known commodity. In 2016 he wasn't.

As a friend of mine put it, in Trump we had the devil we didn't know. He was a businessman, not a politician. We had no idea what he would or wouldn't do. We choose the devil we didn't know over the devil we did. We knew exactly what Hillary would do, she was a well known commodity. Perhaps too well known.

In 2020, Trump will be that well known commodity, perhaps as my friend stated, too well known. You have a very valid point. Matter of fact, I would guarantee a Democratic victory if the Democrats nominate a fresh young face. If that fresh young face is from flyover country, so much the better. I'd stay away from the Northeast. The Democrats won with a fresh young face in Obama, Illinois, Bill Clinton, Arkansas and Jimmy Carter, Georgia. They lost with candidates from the Northeast, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Micheal Dukakis.

I know already I won't be voting for Trump in 2020, but I don't know if I'll be voting Democratic or third party yet. I think like so many of those 8 million third party voters from 2016, 6% of the total electorate. 12% of all independents, swing voters. They are probably thinking along the same lines as me. Candidates matter, we'll see come 2020 if the democrats learned that lesson from 2016.
 
independentusa said:
Like I said, you are definitely a never a Dem. You will always tell yourself that the GOP candidate is better or at least no worse ans then go in and pull the lever for the GOP.
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Considering I said I would vote Tulsi Gabbard, clearly I'm not a never dem. Though I am not far from it.
 
Keridan said:
Honestly, I am not a fan of Biden, but it would be a closer call. I'd prefer to see someone more likely to survive the job, but who would think Trump could have avoided a heart attack this far?
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Apparently Melania is concerned about his health - especially after SNL.:roll:
 
independentusa said:
Trump will never admit to having made a mistake and his followers are the same. They can not admit to having made a mistake, even when the evidence says otherwise. That is why they go along with his "fake news". They have to see any negative articles about trump as fake news or they have to admit to having made a mistake voting for him which they will not allow themselves to do. So don't expect Trump's true believers to ever back away from their worship of trump.
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I voted for Trump and will never say it was a mistake.
Hillary sitting in the oval office would have been a much worse mistake.

Watch the South park episode about an election between " Douche VS. Turd Sandwich " if you want an accurate explanation of the 2016 election.
With me, it was..."the more bread you have, the less crap you have to eat". So I voted for the orange Turd Sandwich because i have a lot of bread.
The blonde Douche did not get my vote. It would have been worse.

but...no matter who would have won, it would not have affected my personal life in any way.
No presidential election ever has.
 
Perotista said:
As a friend of mine put it, in Trump we had the devil we didn't know. He was a businessman, not a politician. We had no idea what he would or wouldn't do. We choose the devil we didn't know over the devil we did. We knew exactly what Hillary would do, she was a well known commodity. Perhaps too well known.
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Funny you should use those terms. Read P.J. O'Rourke's 2016 column:

P.J. O'Rourke: I'm Endorsing Hillary Clinton, the Devil We Know

(EXCERPT)

I endorse Hillary Clinton for president. She is the second-worst thing that could happen to America.
I endorse her. And all her pomps. And all her empty promises.
Better the devil you know than the Lord of the Flies on his own 757. Flying to and fro in the earth, with gold-plated seatbelt buckles, talking nativist, isolationist, mercantilist, bigoted, rude, and vulgar crap.
[...]
Hillary is wrong about everything. She is to politics and statecraft what Pope Urban VIII and the Inquisition were to Galileo. She thinks the sun revolves around herself.

But Trump Earth™ is flat. We’ll sail over the edge. Here be monsters.
[...]

Speaking of which… Like a toddler in a home with a loaded handgun, sooner or later Donald will find the briefcase with the nuclear launch codes. Better set the combination lock code to “411” before he does—he’ll never think of that. Donald hates information.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Funny you should use those terms. Read P.J. O'Rourke's 2016 column:

P.J. O'Rourke: I'm Endorsing Hillary Clinton, the Devil We Know

(EXCERPT)

I endorse Hillary Clinton for president. She is the second-worst thing that could happen to America.
I endorse her. And all her pomps. And all her empty promises.
Better the devil you know than the Lord of the Flies on his own 757. Flying to and fro in the earth, with gold-plated seatbelt buckles, talking nativist, isolationist, mercantilist, bigoted, rude, and vulgar crap.
[...]
Hillary is wrong about everything. She is to politics and statecraft what Pope Urban VIII and the Inquisition were to Galileo. She thinks the sun revolves around herself.

But Trump Earth™ is flat. We’ll sail over the edge. Here be monsters.
[...]

Speaking of which… Like a toddler in a home with a loaded handgun, sooner or later Donald will find the briefcase with the nuclear launch codes. Better set the combination lock code to “411” before he does—he’ll never think of that. Donald hates information.
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Quite interesting. I thought my friends choosing, the devil we don't know, was a good metaphor for why independents went with Trump over Clinton. In other words, they knew what they didn't want as epitomized by Hillary Clinton, so they took a chance on someone completely unknown in the hopes he would be better. Nothing to base that hope on, just that someone from outside of politics would provide change in how things worked and operated. No one knew if that change would be better or worst, only change was certain under Trump.

Remember Obama's hope and change campaign motto? He didn't deliver the change, we got the same type of governing with the same type of influences groups reigning, politics and government as usual. Sure, more left than right as under Bush, but to a lot of independents that was all cosmetic. You still had political party agenda's being pushed which wasn't seen as America's agenda.

So time to throw the dice and see what comes up. I asked him if he would change his vote today, knowing what he knows today if the 2016 election was held today. He said no, it was time to take a chance, even though we didn't know how that would work out, it was time. He'd still vote for Trump today. Myself, I voted against both Trump and Hillary by voting third party, I'd do the same today.

History shows O'Rourke right about one thing, at least using favorable's as a ranking. Trump and Clinton had the lowest favorable ratings by any major party candidate for president since FDR. They are:

2016 Trump 36%
2016 Hillary Clinton 38%
1964 Barry Goldwater 43%
1992 G.H.W. Bush 46%

No other major party presidential candidate has had a favorable rating of below 51% other that those four since FDR. It just happened the two worst were matched against each other in 2016.
 
PleasantValley said:
I voted for Trump and will never say it was a mistake.
Hillary sitting in the oval office would have been a much worse mistake.

Watch the South park episode about an election between " Douche VS. Turd Sandwich " if you want an accurate explanation of the 2016 election.
With me, it was..."the more bread you have, the less crap you have to eat". So I voted for the orange Turd Sandwich because i have a lot of bread.
The blonde Douche did not get my vote. It would have been worse.

but...no matter who would have won, it would not have affected my personal life in any way.
No presidential election ever has.
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I want to ask, how could Hillary been worse? I am not joking, I want you to tell me how you think Hillary could be worse? The congress would have been investigating her, but what difference would that make to what we have now. She would not have given such huge tax cuts to the wealthy, so our deficit would not set a record for November. She would not have put tariffs on friend and foe alike and damaged our economy as can be seen in what is happening right now. She might have actually worked with our friends to go after China together. She would not have damaged our friendship with our allies and made us the laughing stock of the world. She would not have cosied up to every dictator in the world. I guess there must be things that you hate about Hillary, but I want to know how she could have done tings worse than Trump.
 
independentusa said:
I want to ask, how could Hillary been worse? I am not joking, I want you to tell me how you think Hillary could be worse? The congress would have been investigating her, but what difference would that make to what we have now. She would not have given such huge tax cuts to the wealthy, so our deficit would not set a record for November. She would not have put tariffs on friend and foe alike and damaged our economy as can be seen in what is happening right now. She might have actually worked with our friends to go after China together. She would not have damaged our friendship with our allies and made us the laughing stock of the world. She would not have cosied up to every dictator in the world. I guess there must be things that you hate about Hillary, but I want to know how she could have done tings worse than Trump.
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I prefer to not spend the next several decades explaining to you how Hillary could have been worse than Trump.
The wisdom of my years of living and on the internet tells me not one person on any forum has ever had their mind changed by a post....or a hundred posts with links and evidence.
You are 100% convinced Trump is Hitler, Stalin, Satan, and the devil incarnate and there is nothing i can or will post that will change your mind.
I have my opinion and you have yours.
I voted my choice and you voted yours.
I believe Hillary would have done things much more horrible to this country and had a corruption filled presidency much worse than Trump's.
That is one reason she lost in over 90% of all the counties in the country.
Her "majority" popular vote was only because a few densely populated counties near New York City voted for her.
Everyone else rejected her over corruption and that is why she lost, but she will never admit it, but instead has 1,000 other excuses as to " What Happened".
 
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