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Why A Government Shutdown Over The Wall?

Mycroft said:
You should read more.

Trump told everyone how to make Mexico pay for the wall way back during his campaign.

I guess you never read about that, eh?
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Trump said he alone would do it. He would make them pay for it. He lied and like you cons, he is not to be trusted EVER. Trump supporters are so dishonest.
 
Why is it taking so long for the public to get this?

Trump does not want the Wall. He has never wanted the Wall. The very first thing he said to us publicly as President after being elected was that he was throwing stuff against ANY wall during his campaign. The Wall was one of the thing that stuck and so he just kept repeating it rally after rally. "We will build the wall and Mexico will pay for it" became as popular as "lock her up" only with even less credibility and actual policy framework. It was just one of the things that the rally crowds liked to hear by Trump's own admission.

Notice he never talks about how long he wants the wall to be and where exactly he wants it to be and exactly how much it is costing (even the current fence repairs are over budget if anybody wants to know). He does not provide any of that for reference because he doesn't know and he doesn't care.

Trump now just wants to fight about the Wall...just as he wants to fight about DACA. He does not actually want a solution for either. He just wants to fight publicly about both. One day the portion of the population that has never understood Donald will finally understand...probably after he has left the WH in 2020.
 
Saladin4 said:
All the Red States should pay for it if they want so bad...Mexico isn't....As much as trump has told his brain dead base of morons...they would
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I guess we shouldn't expect the people who support lawless people entering our country illegally to support the securing of our borders and the enforcement of our laws.
 
Mycroft said:
So...there you go.

The Dems don't mind shutting down the government because that will cost less than giving Trump the money he wants.

Of course, unlike you, the Dems don't care about the money. They just don't want to give Trump anything he wants. It's all about opposition.

Shutdown...money...national security...Chuck and Nancy don't care. Trump getting what he wants...NO WAY!!
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Trump told us in the meeting with Pelosi and Schumer that he'll be the one doing the shutdown. So good on Trump for owning the problems with a government shutdown. Thanks Donald!

And the GOP tried to pass immigration this summer, including funding for the Great Wall of Trump, and failed, so why are you blaming this on Democrats. Pelosi told him he didn't have the votes in the House with GOP control, dared the House to pass what Trump wanted, and she was correct. You more or less said the same thing - that the GOP stabbed him in the back.

So explain to me why this is Democrats' fault?

Besides, it's not Congress' job to give POTUS everything on his wish list. It's never happened that way and sure as hell isn't going to happen now. Democrats weren't elected in droves last month to gain back the House to cross off Trump's wish list - the opposite is true in fact.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
I guess we shouldn't expect the people who support lawless people entering our country illegally to support the securing of our borders and the enforcement of our laws.
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Pelosi and Schumer both agreed with Trump that they want better border control, just not a wall. Wall makes no sense, cost too much...
 
Mycroft said:
You should read more.

Trump told everyone how to make Mexico pay for the wall way back during his campaign.

I guess you never read about that, eh?
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It's because he changes his mind about how they're going to pay for it by the week, and none of them are easy, which is why none of them even reached beyond the incoherent BS scribbled on a greasy napkin phase, or the alternative, incoherent ramblings on Twitter in the middle of the night phase.

Here's one version of the late night Twitter proposals, from a tweet about a year ago (time stamped - 3:25am :2razz:)

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/953951365532876800

The Wall will be paid for, directly or indirectly, or through longer term reimbursement, by Mexico, which has a ridiculous $71 billion dollar trade surplus with the U.S.
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Oh, well, now that we know the payment will be direct OR indirect Or through unnamed "longer term reimbursement" arrangements somehow related to trade it's so clear, and that sounds so easy!
 
JasperL said:
It's because he changes his mind about how they're going to pay for it by the week, and none of them are easy, which is why none of them even reached beyond the incoherent BS scribbled on a greasy napkin phase, or the alternative, incoherent ramblings on Twitter in the middle of the night phase.

Here's one version of the late night Twitter proposals, from a tweet about a year ago (time stamped - 3:25am :2razz:)

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/953951365532876800



Oh, well, now that we know the payment will be direct OR indirect Or through unnamed "longer term reimbursement" arrangements somehow related to trade it's so clear, and that sounds so easy!
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That was all more Trump BS obviously. There is no means to make Mexico pay for the Stupid Wall which Trump does not actually want anyway. This is classic Trump. He gets so far down the rathole that you are no longer discussing a Wall that he does not want and never intended building but instead discussing mystical payments from Mexico that he does not have the means to collect and never intended collecting.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
I guess we shouldn't expect the people who support lawless people entering our country illegally to support the securing of our borders and the enforcement of our laws.
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I guess you're talking about the GOP who as you know had the House, Senate and WH for the past two years and did...well, nothing, apparently.
 
jnug said:
That was all more Trump BS obviously. There is no means to make Mexico pay for the Stupid Wall which Trump does not actually want anyway. This is classic Trump. He gets so far down the rathole that you are no longer discussing a Wall that he does not want and never intended building but instead discussing mystical payments from Mexico that he does not have the means to collect and never intended collecting.
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I know, I just think it's hilarious that some people actually believed his stupid promises. On this thread:

Building a wall...making Mexico pay for it...those are both very easy things to do.
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:lamo
 
Mycroft said:
So...there you go.

The Dems don't mind shutting down the government because that will cost less than giving Trump the money he wants.

Of course, unlike you, the Dems don't care about the money. They just don't want to give Trump anything he wants. It's all about opposition.

Shutdown...money...national security...Chuck and Nancy don't care. Trump getting what he wants...NO WAY!!
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So Trump failed to get Mexico to pay for it, he failed to get his party to pay for it, but now it’s the Democrats fault that he can’t get his way?

Yah.

Sure.
 
Jetboogieman said:
So Trump failed to get Mexico to pay for it, he failed to get his party to pay for it, but now it’s the Democrats fault that he can’t get his way?

Yah.

Sure.
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If honesty and logic were strong attributes of Trump supporters, they wouldn't be Trump supporters.
 
Mycroft said:
Building a wall...making Mexico pay for it...those are both very easy things to do. But both require Congress to get them done.

When Trump campaigned on those two issues, he counted on Congressional Republicans. Those Republicans stabbed him in the back. As a consequence, he has dropped the notion of Mexico paying for the wall and he is focusing on getting the wall built.

So you can just drop the "Mexico is supposed to pay for it" stuff...thanks to Congress. (unless, of course, you want to dishonestly continue to make it an issue)

Now...regarding the shutdown. Tell me...exactly how much does it cost to shut down the government? Hmmm? If it's much more than the $5 billion Trump wants for the wall right now, then wouldn't it be better for the Senate Dems to give him the money than to force the shutdown?
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Absolutely amazing defense of Trump lies. How precisely did the Republicans stab him in the back? And of course you noticed that as recently as TODAY he stated Mexico is going to pay for the wall.
 
chuckiechan said:
The general population is in favor of the wall. No one ever asked voters if they wanted Americas demographic to change this way, and Trump did run on building a wall in response to this. The democrats want to use illigal immigration to swamp the conservative middle class and be done with conservatives once and for all when they are in position to grant amnesty to an unknown number of illegals - somewhere between 14 million to 24 million depending on who’s figures you choose. And that is before chain migration is factored in.

As far as “pay for it”, money is fungible. Most will accept the wall, and understand the “If you like your doctor” nature of the boast.
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The latest poll I could find had 33% of Americans in favor of a wall, and 48% completely against a wall. Why do you believe "the general population is in favor of a wall"?
 
Mycroft said:
Building a wall...making Mexico pay for it...those are both very easy things to do. But both require Congress to get them done.

When Trump campaigned on those two issues, he counted on Congressional Republicans. Those Republicans stabbed him in the back. As a consequence, he has dropped the notion of Mexico paying for the wall and he is focusing on getting the wall built.

So you can just drop the "Mexico is supposed to pay for it" stuff...thanks to Congress. (unless, of course, you want to dishonestly continue to make it an issue)

Now...regarding the shutdown. Tell me...exactly how much does it cost to shut down the government? Hmmm? If it's much more than the $5 billion Trump wants for the wall right now, then wouldn't it be better for the Senate Dems to give him the money than to force the shutdown?
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Not to mention the expense of having a standing army down on our border which is probably what Trump will do until he gets the funding


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Jetboogieman said:
I am very confused, can Trump supporters please explain this to me.

Why is it, the President of the United States is threatening to shut down his own government because of the Border Wall, when he assured us all, that Mexico was going to pay for it...





Shutdowns actually end up costing more money for Taxpayers than if the government just stays open due to a number of factors.

So not only would building the wall be a massive waste of money, but Trump is threatening to waste even more money in an attempt to waste more money.

The utter stupidity of contemporary American politics is astounding.
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For the same reason obama shut down "his own government", because it's the dems not playing along.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I never expected Mexico to pay for the wall. From the start I considered that just campaign rhetoric.
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His proposal for how he would pay for his signature project is "just campaign rhetoric"? So if Bernie is president and his taxes don't pay for free tuition for all we can just say it was "just campaign rhetoric." You're blind support for this man has forced you into intellectually embarrassing positions.

Captain Adverse said:
3. End the lottery system, as well as prohibit any and all future "amnesty" programs.
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What is the lottery system and why do we need to end it?

Most Trump supporters actually believe there is a lottery where anyone can buy a ticket and if they get lucky they're in. The lottery part only applies to those who qualify. And it's just a way to diversify the immigrants we get because different countries have different populations. There are billions in China and India alone. And visa lottery winners actually do well here.

The idea that rich Swedish people are going to come to America is a fantasy. People prefer to live in their home countries unless there are serious problems. It seems you're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

African immigrants are actually very successful and they help to enrich the African American community. I'm surprised that you want to reduce African immigration like Trump despite the overwhelming success of African immigrants. I hope you know that the real intent of ending the visa lottery system is to reduce African immigration for no real reason other than their race.

It hasn’t been easy — the racist stereotypes are far from gone. Last year, President Donald Trump reportedly said in an Oval Office discussion that Nigerians would never go back to “their huts” once they saw America. But overt racism hasn’t stopped Nigerian-Americans from creating jobs, treating patients, teaching students and contributing to local communities in their new home, all while confidently emerging as one of the country’s most succesful immigrant communities, with a median household income of $62,351, compared to $57,617 nationally, as of 2015.
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https://www.ozy.com/fast-forward/the-most-successful-ethnic-group-in-the-us-may-surprise-you/86885
 
trouble13 said:
Not to mention the expense of having a standing army down on our border which is probably what Trump will do until he gets the funding


Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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It's actually alot more cheaper than having them deployed overseas
 
Jetboogieman said:
I am very confused, can Trump supporters please explain this to me.

Why is it, the President of the United States is threatening to shut down his own government because of the Border Wall, when he assured us all, that Mexico was going to pay for it...





Shutdowns actually end up costing more money for Taxpayers than if the government just stays open due to a number of factors.

So not only would building the wall be a massive waste of money, but Trump is threatening to waste even more money in an attempt to waste more money.

The utter stupidity of contemporary American politics is astounding.
Click to expand...


The stupidity seems to live in his head and then trickles down to his fans.
 
Jetboogieman said:
So Trump failed to get Mexico to pay for it, he failed to get his party to pay for it, but now it’s the Democrats fault that he can’t get his way?

Yah.

Sure.
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Trump stated...correctly...in that meeting that right now he has enough votes in the House to pass funding for the wall. He said what he lacks is enough votes in the Senate because he needs some Dem votes. (because of the required 2/3 majority) He said he doesn't want to waste his time since the Senate Dems won't give him the votes. Chuck sat right there and said that no Senate Dem will vote for the funding to build the wall.

So yes...If the Dems wanted to, building the wall would be easy.

Regarding making Mexico pay for it...nobody, Rep or Dem, is bothering with that because the Dems are preventing the wall from even being built.

If the Dems wanted to, they could fund the wall...construction would get underway...Congress and the President could work on methods to recoup the money from Mexico...and Mexico would be paying for the wall. It would be easy.

(If the Dems wanted to.)
 
I think it's stupid to shut down the government for any reason....past and present.
 
Acadia said:
Well, you know how when Presidential candidates campaign and they make campaign promises and the people think, "Wow! I'd like that one candidate to win and keep those promises because I agree with them" and then that one candidate wins and omg the people that voted for him actually expect him to follow through with his promises because elections have consequences and all that stuff and they were perhaps expecting since "their guy" was in office that their agenda would be carried out especially that big-ticket item that their guy who won made a keystone issue of his campaign?

Yano? That^^
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YaIno.

Except this isn't that.
 
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