Would Ronald Reagan be a RINO today?

1751Texan said:

Reagan spent like a Republican. The difference between R and D is who pays the bill.

Dems want 1%

Republicans don't bill anyone.

Runaway deficits.

Reagan was no conservative.

Carter did not decimate the military...we needed cuts after the bloat of Vietnam.

Vietnam ended in '75...what the hell did we need with a war time military?

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Will respectfully disagree as I see history being on the side of my point of view. Do have a pleasant afternoon.

AlbqOwl said:

I think Vladimir envies us a great deal and likes to make mischief. But does he present a serious military threat? I don't see that.

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Envy us? He is richer than Jeff Bezos and has more unchecked power than Trump. One could argue many Russians may envy Americans, but I highly doubt Putin is among them. His life is about as sweet as it gets. I do agree he likes making mischief, though.

Skeptic Bob said:

I do agree he likes making mischief, though.

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Which only makes it more awesome.

DamnYankee said:

I agree. I also believe Reagan had a way of taking his agenda directly to the people, by passing the media in essences.

He probably would be handling the far leftist whack-o's like DJT does.

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He sure knew how to work that bully pulpit. Presidents Clinton and Obama were very good public speakers, but Reagan was a master.

Fearandloathing said:

Like most of these invented labels, it has no meaning anymore. The term itself has been used and over used to such an extent that it could mean anything...and now does because of the American propensity to hate one's neighbor above all else. It is an arrow, a bolt, a shot fired for the express purpose of calling down another person...about as effective as the term "hippie".

Second, the Ronald Reagan I knew wouldn't likely run in this environment.

One of the reasons I think there are no 'stars' for either party anymore is that those with enough brains for the job are too smart to want the ****ing thing.

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There is a lot of truth in that. There is a part of me that almost wishes we could draft someone into the Presidency.

Ikari said:

Reagan would not be tolerated in today's GOP. He was too willing to work with Dems and compromise when necessary.

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LOL.....one word!... TEFRA

trixare4kids said:

I never thought Ronald Reagan was a pure conservative. Granting amnesty in 1986 to illegal aliens isn't conservative policy. Yeah, RINO is an apt description for him.
He would have sat down with the Immigration gang of 8 in 2013.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2013/01/28/immigrations-gang-of-8-who-are-they/

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Reagan was advised that if he gave amnesty, it would solve the problem once and for all.

he was told the amnesty would legalize 1 million people....instead we got 3 million.

here we are decades later with millions more illegal, and if they grant amnesty again, we will have more people come illegally

Skeptic Bob said:

Envy us? He is richer than Jeff Bezos and has more unchecked power than Trump. One could argue many Russians may envy Americans, but I highly doubt Putin is among them. His life is about as sweet as it gets. I do agree he likes making mischief, though.

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Yes, he is among the richest men in the world; maybe IS the richest. Since nobody knows for sure it is all speculation so it depends which list of the world's richest you consult.

But I think he envies us and our success in the world, something his Russia cannot emulate. He envies our prestige, the fact that we are included among all the world's prestigious organizations, the fact that the world sometimes grudgingly admires and respects us in a way they do not admire or respect Russia.

Russia has some great things going for it. Moscow's subway system is absolutely fantastically beautiful and efficient for instance. But most Americans don't see that and in the overall big picture Russia doesn't have much to boast about. Putin wants to be seen as the world's greatest and most important leader and he just can't quite accomplish that. As much as President Trump is hated by the left, he enjoys more prestige than Putin. So I think we can expect a somewhat petulant Putin to keep trying to make a bit of mischief to embarrass or distract us now and then. I think it is probably more sport to him than intentionally destructive though.

Master PO said:

Reagan was advised that if he gave amnesty, it would solve the problem once and for all.

he was told the amnesty would legalize 1 million people....instead we got 3 million.

here we are decades later with millions more illegal, and if they grant amnesty again, we will have more people come illegally

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We got a lot more than 3 million. There are millions that never came forward and registered for amnesty.
Couldn't agree more with the rest of your post.

Skeptic Bob said:

Envy us? He is richer than Jeff Bezos and has more unchecked power than Trump. One could argue many Russians may envy Americans, but I highly doubt Putin is among them. His life is about as sweet as it gets. I do agree he likes making mischief, though.

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I wouldn't mind being President of the US, but I wouldn't want to be Trump. I wouldn't want to be "President" of Russia, but I wouldn't mind being Putin.

AlbqOwl said:

Yes, he is among the richest men in the world; maybe IS the richest. Since nobody knows for sure it is all speculation so it depends which list of the world's richest you consult.

But I think he envies us and our success in the world, something his Russia cannot emulate. He envies our prestige, the fact that we are included among all the world's prestigious organizations, the fact that the world sometimes grudgingly admires and respects us in a way they do not admire or respect Russia.

Russia has some great things going for it. Moscow's subway system is absolutely fantastically beautiful and efficient for instance. But most Americans don't see that and in the overall big picture Russia doesn't have much to boast about. Putin wants to be seen as the world's greatest and most important leader and he just can't quite accomplish that. As much as President Trump is hated by the left, he enjoys more prestige than Putin. So I think we can expect a somewhat petulant Putin to keep trying to make a bit of mischief to embarrass or distract us now and then. I think it is probably more sport to him than intentionally destructive though.

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Greetings, AlbqOwl. :2wave:

A good friend of mine visited the Hermitage in St. Petersburg, Russia - one of the most prestigious museums in the world - while there on a business trip, and marveled that a person could spend an hour every day of their life and not see everything there! :thumbs:

Skeptic Bob said:

Would Ronald Reagan be considered a RINO in today’s political climate if he were around today and held the same type of political views? I am most interested in what Republican voters have to say. Thanks!

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Reagan's Godlike reverence within the GOP is being replaced as we speak.

AlbqOwl said:

Russia's GDP is a small fraction of ours. Their military has an advantage on us in a very few areas--nuclear not being one of them--but overall has a fraction of the quality and capability of our military. His population is much more concentrated than ours--11 million people in Moscow alone. Putin can't lob a intercontinental missile at us without being immediately and completely obliterated.
Russia vs United States Military Stats Compared

Russia bears watching of course, just as all the other major military powers in the world today, but we are not afraid of Russia militarily. Putin may be an egotistical blowhard, but he is no fool. He will not risk losing what little of the empire remains. The odds of him initiating any kind of military action are slim to none.

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Russia can easily obliterate USA and all of Earth with nuclear capabilities alone. It does not matter whether we can obliterate Earth 100 times and they can only do so 10 times. That does not mean anything of value. Both countries are on exact same footing as before - MAD is still in place for both countries. So yes, they are still superpower in that sense even though their GDP sucks and whether rest of your points are correct or not.

USA will also not be able to lob a intercontinental missile at Russia without being immediately and completely obliterated.

AlbqOwl said:

He envies our prestige, the fact that we are included among all the world's prestigious organizations, the fact that the world sometimes grudgingly admires and respects us in a way they do not admire or respect Russia.

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Which is why he has worked hard to undermine all of the above... successfully.



So much for that admiration and respect...

Skeptic Bob said:

Would Ronald Reagan be considered a RINO in today’s political climate if he were around today and held the same type of political views? I am most interested in what Republican voters have to say. Thanks!

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Sure. No doubt. I mean he worked with Democrats. Isn't that the definition of a RINO?

Skeptic Bob said:

Would Ronald Reagan be considered a RINO in today’s political climate if he were around today and held the same type of political views? I am most interested in what Republican voters have to say. Thanks!

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Yup. That's probably been the case for some time now. They don't even pay lip service much to Reagan these days.

2010: https://www.redstate.com/diary/thed...ld-reagan-the-great-rino-of-american-history/
2011: https://www.npr.org/sections/itsall...7/ronald-reagan-would-be-a-rino-in-todays-gop

polgara said:

Greetings, AlbqOwl. :2wave:

A good friend of mine visited the Hermitage in St. Petersburg, Russia - one of the most prestigious museums in the world - while there on a business trip, and marveled that a person could spend an hour every day of their life and not see everything there! :thumbs:

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Yes there is much to admire in Russia. But most of us would not choose to live there because there are still many negatives as well. I have heard of the Hermitage though and would love to visit it as I am definitely a museum and history person. Our own Smithsonian is much the same in size as nobody would likely see every exhibit in a lifetime. But I believe the Hermitage is one very large magnificent building while the Smithsonian is many buildings.

Slavister said:

Russia can easily obliterate USA and all of Earth with nuclear capabilities alone. It does not matter whether we can obliterate Earth 100 times and they can only do so 10 times. That does not mean anything of value. Both countries are on exact same footing as before - MAD is still in place for both countries. So yes, they are still superpower in that sense even though their GDP sucks and whether rest of your points are correct or not.

USA will also not be able to lob a intercontinental missile at Russia without being immediately and completely obliterated.

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Yes, they could do massive damage to us though it would be harder because we are a lot more spread out militarily than they are. But it is precisely because each country can obliterate the other that neither will ever do so.

Slavister said:

Which is why he has worked hard to undermine all of the above... successfully.

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So much for that admiration and respect...

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I think you do not understand what admiration and respect means. It does not mean approval. It does mean that we are taken seriously and we are not left out of international negotiations. Those countries who presume to scorn us all know their very survival depends on our military and willlingness to use it if necessary in their defense. Nobody but maybe one or two or so miserable despotic countries outside of the mainstream look to Russia to defend them.

But yes, they really don't approve of a President who puts America first and insists that they pony up their fair share in international agreements. The former President gave them everything they wanted so yeah, he was a great guy. Not respected or admired necessary but very much approved.

AlbqOwl said:

Yes, they could do massive damage to us though it would be harder because we are a lot more spread out militarily than they are.

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While I agree about population concentration, from military perspective, I'd think it's the opposite since they have larger area to spread across (and more borders to defend).

AlbqOwl said:

But it is precisely because each country can obliterate the other that neither will ever do so.

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... unless unhinged child / wanna be dictator comes to power in one of the countries and decides to believe a certain new channel that his button is bigger and better ... But hopefully, MAD is a good enough deterrent indeed. In any case, I think you should just agree with my original point:

Slavister said:

he presents AS serious of a threat as USSR did - he still can destroy USA and all of Earth many times over... Militarily, it's just as much of a "superpower" as it was, and probably more by now.

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AlbqOwl said:

It does mean that we are taken seriously and we are not left out of international negotiations.

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Oh really?? Trump gets us out of TPP which makes other countries negotiate their own deal and LEAVE US OUT of the negotiations... so you mean like how these used-to-be allies left USA out because Trump decided to quit on them?

In its original incarnation as the TPP, the accord was conceived as a counterweight to China
...
When President Obama was advocating the deal, he said that “America should call the shots” instead of China... Now, signatories are opening the door for China to join. Heraldo Muñoz, Chile’s foreign minister, told reporters on Thursday afternoon that Chinese officials had been weighing the possibility of signing on.

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and who is OUT now? USA. China sends their regards...

Skeptic Bob said:

He sure knew how to work that bully pulpit. Presidents Clinton and Obama were very good public speakers, but Reagan was a master.

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He was my bio pic in a post grad class I took. He was ultimately not most of what was said about him. I have said he was the last "decent" president as he conveyed his decisions and thinking to the people with genuine concern and emotion.

Ultimately he was as said "the great communicator" who instinctively knew what needed to be said; that talent surfacing in a student campus demonstration where he successfully led a protest to curtail planned tuition increases - it was his first "car bumper" oratory. The story that stays with me is the one about "tear down this wall"; it was written by his favorite speech writer, a Canadian whose name escapes me, who had written "Mr. Gorbachov, just tear down this wall" inserted as a joke for those hearing it in rehearsal, when he read it the room broke up in laughter as the story goes Reagan the actor gave it some "english".

"I'll take that out, sir" said the writer. "No, you will not. It's the best line of the speech.

I opposed just about everything he did, I admired how he kept his family and the presidency from being dragged through the dirt; he was likely one of the top three presidents of that century if not the best; although a dying cripple who held the nation together in a world war still gets my vote. Can you imagine Trump in that position?

OrphanSlug said:

Reagan would be no more electable for Republicans today than JFK would be electable for Democrats today, political climate in concert with political ideological goals makes it near impossible to bring these guys speaking the way that they did into today's circus of stupidity.

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What in the New Frontier would make JFK unelectable for Democrats?

Skeptic Bob said:

There is a lot of truth in that. There is a part of me that almost wishes we could draft someone into the Presidency.

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I hate to say this, as Americans always resist the long game and go for instant gratification. It's not the president that is wrong with your country it is the presidency itself. Political Sci 101 - the presidency was never intended to have anywhere near the power it has taken on. What has happened was exactly what the 'floundering fathers' did not want, an office with enough power to become corrupt and out of reach of the law.

Americans threw out the monarchy and then immediately built a castle for the president - he is the only 'non-royal' individual who is ceremoniously piped into the room with Sousa march "Pomp and Circumstance". For all intents and purposes you have an elected king who is above the law, cannot even be charged with a crime and, theoretically can pardon himself.

In a parliamentary democracy Trump would have been saddled with a minority government, where he would have to compromise (and if he lied in the commons would be kicked out), which is exactly what America needs...everybody give a little bit,care a little bit about the future of the country, not whether you can 'get even' with (fill in the blank).

IF anything, what Trump has shown the world is that the much touted 'experiment' of a 'new nation' is bust. Greed and selfishness are the religion of Washington, lobbyists determine what gets passed and the buck simply doesn't stop anywhere.

Trump has one gear: divide. I wonder, with this example at mid terms, whether the world needs to see 2020. Ugly is is only starting.

Skeptic Bob said:

Would Ronald Reagan be considered a RINO in today’s political climate if he were around today and held the same type of political views? I am most interested in what Republican voters have to say. Thanks!

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Without equivocation:
YES