• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Sixty-two percent of jobs don't support middle-class life after accounting for cost of living

Stop being delusional. It is impossible for everyone to become rich, that would lead to hyperinflation. And if nobody owes you anything then LEAVE and go live in the jungle with the rest of the animals, they're obviously your level. The difference between you and a mindless savage is you have access to a keyboard.

RIF, why do you think you are special enough to make up your own facts? Where did I say everyone can get rich? It takes hard work in which most people aren't willing to do. Most want to pretend like they are victims and are too dumb and shiftless to put forth the effort. Your attitude and beliefs are disgusting.
 
Yes, nearly 2/3rds.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...ll-short-middle-class-standard-us/1809629002/

How are people supposed to get ahead when this is what they have to work with? Lemme guess, work harder and take on second and third jobs, amirite?

Also, if you have something negative to say about the study, criticize its methods fairly, don't just say that you don't like it.

Work and live smarter. Dont waste money on useless education, dont take on debt, dont have kids. Move somewhere with a better job market and lower costs.
 
But then good paying jobs are almost nonexistent in rural areas.

But then cost of living reflects that. "Middle Class" isn't an income bracket, it is a lifestyle measure.

When I lived in Vienna VA a two bedroom condo cost $400k. Now I live 60 miles south and $400k can get you an acre+ of land and a 4000 square foot home.

The trade off is do you want ample public transportation and be close to work, or own a nicer car, a nicer house, nicer furniture at the expense of a longer commute?

The same disparity exists across all income brackets between these two regions.
 
A person I know told a typical small business story. Losing a factory assembly line job to the business closing, the person used her last paycheck to buy a used lawn mower. Putting it the truck of her old car – that she slept in, she went door to door, offering to do people's yards for $10. If they wanted her to come back it was $25. With this income, she bought a used edger, clippers. Within a few weeks was asking guys along the street on foot “Want to make $10 cash a hour? Hop in.”

That was many years ago. Her house –large and waterfront - is paid for. It is full of antiques and collectibles. Her last new car is one of the most expensive Mercedes made.Did she accomplish this by mowing yards? No. That was just the beginning.

Today she owns numerous businesses – each one bringing in the money. She said she never really worries about having income even if someday they all failed. Why? “I still have that lawn mower.”

THAT is an entrepreneur.
 
Work and live smarter. Dont waste money on useless education, dont take on debt, dont have kids. Move somewhere with a better job market and lower costs.

Yeah, if you don't like the life you are living then figure out what it is you want and then find the place that meets your demands.

My only disagreement with you would be the "don't have kids".... there is a strong correlation between having kids and earning more money. From experience I know it was having kids that kicked my ass in gear to make a better life for my family.
 
You don't want to look at history, which shows all governments eventually fail. You don't want to look at the present, which shows how governments are currently in debt and on the way to failure. Theory is all we have, since you guys won't let anarchy happen, and we disagree on what the theory says.

Anarchy doesn't work, it's not a sustainable system. The "Free Market" depends on how people are defining it. Something like laissez-faire doesn't work and is not free. What we run now is Corporate Capitalism, which also is not free. The "Free Market", much like the Free State, requires some amount of appropriate government regulation.
 
This is due to government. A free market wouldn't have these issues. Let me guess...your solution is more government?

Yawn. There is no 'free market'. It's a mythical animal that only exists on chalkboards and PowerPoint presentations.
 
Yawn. There is no 'free market'. It's a mythical animal that only exists on chalkboards and PowerPoint presentations.

I don't know as we are allowed to utter such blasphemy.
 
Oh go back to your roof-less trailer park and stick it. States run by Republicans are bigger welfare mooches than us Blue states. Don't talk to me about carrying anything - you carry nothing except whatever blubber you have jiggling under your soiled wife beater. We liberal states support you right wing welfare sucking asses more than you will ever support ours.
:lamo

The conservative wage earners and successful businessmen in those blue states carry even your pathetic sorry ass. Please stop pretending you do anything more than whine and piss yourself over how unfair life is. You are just embarrassing yourself and frankly...you are boring and basic as ****.
 
Hire more and pay more then... what are you waiting for?

I pay my employees and subcontractors very well. Of course they are highly skilled as well. I would love to be able to hire more because that would mean my business is growing. :)
 
It's all about choices.



If you were that machinist, what would be the best choice for you regarding where you live?

Of course, the choice isn't that simple. There are other factors involved in making the choice that require setting priorities and making trade-offs. But still...it all comes down to choices.

Move to where its cheaper and hope all the other machinists don't have the same idea?

Because if they do, wages will go down as a result and you'll be right back where you were.

That's the problem with conservative rhetoric.

To much of it sounds good if you don't think about it.

"Get an education in a high demand field" is good advice unless everybody takes it. Then there are too many computer engineers and pay for that work goes down as a result and you end up with an expensive degree that isn't worth what you paid for it.
 
Red states are loaded with rural areas which have a big housing crisis and lack of access to health care. Red states are also infested with things like hookworm. (See: Alabama)

Also as a testament to how terribly poorly thought out your suggestion is.. would you like to speculate on what will happen to RENTS in red states if people start migrating there?

Hint: rents will go up. WAY up.

The only real reason its still cheap in some places is because the speculators haven't gotten around to them yet.
 
If you want a good life, buy a house when you are young, don't spend what you haven't got, and don't have children. It really is that simple

And yet the rich were still getting rich during the time when one income let you own a home, have nice things and raise a family, including an education.

Now what you suggest is the solution.

And the donor class has gotten commensurately richer.
 
Or live in red states with substantially lower costs of living. The median salary in the US is 59k, in most red states you live fairly well with your own home, vehicle, healthcare etc. However, good luck achieving that in many of the blue states.

The cost of living variance within a single state can be profound. Go look up some real estate prices in Pasco, Washington, and see what comparable homes in Seattle would cost.
 
WOuld you like the short answer?

Yes.

Work harder. Work 2 and 3 jobs. Bust your ass. Curb your spending. Live within your means. Prepare for a future. It may take 10, 15, 20 years to build your self up to a status where you only need to work one job, especially if your parents didnt prepare themselves for a future and if you didnt as well. ESPECIALLY if you went to college and ran up debt on a worthless degree you will never use.

Yes.

Guess what. Its no different today than it was yesterday.

It most certainly is.

It is MUCH harder to "succeed" now than it was when I was a kid.

It always took work and sacrifice. But it definitely takes more to achieve the same level today.
 
Maybe the problem is the definition of middle-class? Maybe expectations and ideas of what we actually need or want are what is out of whack with reality? I find it telling that their sole definition of middle-class is a raw income measure yet traditionally class distinctions were more about what you did and how you did it more than how much you paid to do it (not that this was always a good thing either). It just seems like a distraction from what is actually important to a living a good life by whatever qualitative measurable you might personally value.

The article gave a precise, income-based definition. But you raise an interesting point. Too many Americans consider themselves to be "temporarily inconvenienced millionaires" and "middle class" when they are struggling just to get by. This correlates with their bizarre proclivity to elect politicians who help the super-rich, who do not need any help, and themselves.
 
Move to where its cheaper and hope all the other machinists don't have the same idea?

Because if they do, wages will go down as a result and you'll be right back where you were.

That's the problem with conservative rhetoric.

To much of it sounds good if you don't think about it.

"Get an education in a high demand field" is good advice unless everybody takes it. Then there are too many computer engineers and pay for that work goes down as a result and you end up with an expensive degree that isn't worth what you paid for it.

As I said...the choice isn't simple.
 
work harder and take on second and third jobs, amirite?

Forget that!!!!!

This is so anti Millennials bounds.
It's like the ultimate non negotiable to them.

40 ours, MAX.

Sit down and talk to them, you'll see.
 
Are you literally not even reading? Half of the available jobs out there pay under 30K a year. That's it, dude, there ain't no more. You can learn new skills all you want to, there's not enough jobs regardless. You'll just be an unemployed engineer working at Starbucks.

Jobs are a limited resource, and getting more limited as time goes on, especially good paying jobs. Go ahead and start a new business, 80% of those fail out the door and those that don't have to deal with imploding profit margins due to the fact that any business you can imagine will be buried in low priced competition out the gate, or a few years later at best.

Bankruptcy court and homeless shelters are the graveyard for millions who've tried to start their own business and wound up further back than before they started. That's what happens to the VAST MAJORITY of wannabe entrepreneurs.

If you depend on somebody else to give you a job instead of creating one yourself, I have no sympathy for you.
 
It most certainly is.

It is MUCH harder to "succeed" now than it was when I was a kid.

It always took work and sacrifice. But it definitely takes more to achieve the same level today.
Bull****. People have always had the opportunity to work their way out of poverty. 30 years ago I was attending night classes right alongside fellow servicemembers that were also working second jobs AND trying to prepare themselves for the next 20 years. Its NEVER been different. Some were better prepared than others....than and now. Some had **** parents or no parents and didnt get the kind of guidance and had to start from scratch...then and now. Meanwhile...many people today ARE thriving. Hell...36% of new businesses are lea immigrants with startups built on food carts, or a trailer a mower and a rake. THEY can succeed...but YOU cant?

**** off. Tell your sad story to a fellow like minded, weak-willed piss ant that is willing to be just as ****ing comfortable in your failure as you are.
 
White liberals killed the golden goose.

Addiction to power and status put the goose in the hands of those addicts.

Full stop.

This is the pattern of history.

We are just repeating it.

Because we forgot.

Again.
 
Riding a bike and failing gives you scrapes. Spending money to start a business that fails puts you in bankruptcy court or foreclosure. You literally just took false equivalency to a quantum level.

It is exactly accurate. But I do understand you want to be wealthy for free. Your hope is from buying lottery tickets, right? I never buy lotto tickets. Bad odds.

Nearly all who have successful small businesses are older, typically age 50 and over. They climbed the ladder. They aren't cowards, they aren't sheep and they worked their asses off. Anyone afraid to risk failing is inherently a self-made failure.
 
RIF, why do you think you are special enough to make up your own facts? Where did I say everyone can get rich? It takes hard work in which most people aren't willing to do. Most want to pretend like they are victims and are too dumb and shiftless to put forth the effort. Your attitude and beliefs are disgusting.

We (the vast majority of "us") have been declared commodities to be used and discarded at will by a few of "us" (the donor class) who are NOT considered commodities.

And the donor class is not interested in more people joining THEIR game.

Which at the end of the day is Highlander.

"There can be only one" guy who has the most wealth and power with the rest trying to get it for themselves.

And they will divert as much of what the entire world produces to their game of global monopoly as they can get away with to finally determine who the richest most powerful person on the planet is.

It really is that simple.

And pretty pathetic.
 
It most certainly is.

It is MUCH harder to "succeed" now than it was when I was a kid.

It always took work and sacrifice. But it definitely takes more to achieve the same level today.

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going." Vince Lombardi.
 
Back
Top Bottom