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USA not a legitimate democracy

biglawnmower said:
The United States is not a sole democracy to begin with. Never was.
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You mean it's not a PURE democracy.
NO COUNTRY EVER HAS BEEN.
The term "democracy" typically applies to republics that have democratically elected representation and a set of rights and freedoms. The United States is a democratically elected constitutional republic, also KNOWN colloquially by the generally accepted term "democracy".

It's getting mighty tiresome to have to explain this over and over again to people who think Prager University is a legitimate source of learning.
 
Moderate71 said:
One issue the article mentions that erodes a democracy is people's distrust of the government and infringement of the press. In the USA people are allowed to be too critical of the government that grants them rights and the press that helps keep them informed. The president himself has criticized the press quite a bit. Perhaps a few legal standards need to be set to reign in some of the discontent.
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Why yes let's start reigning in the discontent! Let's start with the opposition. Hmmm, let's see - - we could criminalize the Democratic Party and not allow them to hold elected office.

Or better yet, we could forcibly remove the authoritarian fascists and send them to Russia, where THEY would be "content".
Yeah, I think that is a much better idea.
 
ataraxia said:
So would a pure republic, without proper checks and balances like a court system. So I’m still not sure what the emphasis on not being a democracy is all about.
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Because minority rule sucks and breeds discontent. The Senate for instance is the most undemocratic body of our Govt. Its selection dilutes the votes of the large States and creates tyranny by the minority.
 
Moderate71 said:
One issue the article mentions that erodes a democracy is people's distrust of the government and infringement of the press. In the USA people are allowed to be too critical of the government that grants them rights and the press that helps keep them informed. The president himself has criticized the press quite a bit. Perhaps a few legal standards need to be set to reign in some of the discontent.
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:shock:

So wrong on so many levels. Our rights are not granted by our Government or by our Constitution. The are guaranteed and protected by the Constitution. Rights that can be granted by man can also be taken away, God-given, unalienable rights cannot.
In the words of Thomas Jefferson, “The evidence of this natural right, like that of our right to life, liberty, the use of our faculties, the pursuit of happiness, is not left to the feeble and sophistical investigations of reason, but is impressed on the sense of every man. We do not claim these under the charters of kings or legislators, but under the King of kings.”

And sorry, criticism of the press doesn't in anyway represent a threat to the freedom of the press.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
You mean it's not a PURE democracy.
NO COUNTRY EVER HAS BEEN.
The term "democracy" typically applies to republics that have democratically elected representation and a set of rights and freedoms. The United States is a democratically elected constitutional republic, also KNOWN colloquially by the generally accepted term "democracy".

It's getting mighty tiresome to have to explain this over and over again to people who think Prager University is a legitimate source of learning.
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Yes, The Right think a republic is a Govt. by the minority and therefore their minority must rule. That was never the founders intention. In a few weeks they will see just how much of a minority they are.
 
Moderate71 said:
The first and most important step in being happy is being content. If people aren't criticizing the government or the press, it reduces discontent and keeps people happy. When people are happy, they will have no desire to do anything against the government's rules and there will be no need to restrict their behavior on a mass scale. They simply need to be kept happy.
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ataraxia said:
It is a republic, which is a representative democracy.

I keep hearing our conservative posters here stress that we are not a democracy. I have never understood this appeal. Why is this so important to keep repeating?
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Advance inoculation to prepare the people to accept authoritarian totalitarianism.
And I will see these people hang before I acquiesce to that nonsense.
America is a representative democracy which functions in the framework of a constitutional republic.
 
veritas1 said:
As mentioned, we are not a democracy in the classic sense. Secondly, the UN is nothing more than a forum for tinhat dictators and other lesser types to attack the United States. Nobody should care in the least what they think and it's long past time for us to have shuttled them off to the Netherlands or somewhere similar. They're taking up space for something else that might actually be useful.
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The Birchers on this forum certainly get upset when one speaks of democracy, which is why it is important to speak of democracy as often as possible.

By the way, if you speak of democracy while burning books written by Steve Bonta in front of them, some of them have heart attacks.
 
Moderate71 said:
If it gets bad enough, the U.N. might have to step in and force some changes in the USA. Possibly add a few Amendments to our constitution or repeal/modify a few.
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LOL !! The UN can go pound sound. The UN is not a Government and it doesn't make laws. It can pass non-binding resolutions and thats it. They are powerless, impotent and know better than to threaten the worlds lone superpower
 
WillyPete said:
We're back in the definition hole again. How can we be a democracy in the U.S. when we don't vote directly on policy decisions? How policy is determined is the central distinction between different types of government, not how the leaders are picked.

We're a republic (we select leaders to make policy decisions) and we vote on the leaders. I don't have an issue with "representative democracy," though it still seems imperfect.

We're certainly not a literal democracy in any case. We use democratic methods to select the leaders of our republic.
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A literal democracy is impossible, too volatile.
Mammals can't breathe pure oxygen either. Nature buffers the oxygen in a compound of inert gases.
Our democracy is buffered in similar fashion, like all "democracies" are.
 
ataraxia said:
It is a republic, which is a representative democracy.

I keep hearing our conservative posters here stress that we are not a democracy. I have never understood this appeal. Why is this so important to keep repeating? What underlies this? It really does sound like there is an ominous agenda underlying this fascination with us supposedly not being a democracy.

It’s a little creepy to keep hearing that repeated over and over again with such glee and barely suppressed enthusiasm.
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What a leap. All that poster said was that "the U.S. isn't a democracy anyway", his refutation for the first post, and you went off....

Talk about creepy...
 
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Moderate71 said:
According to the U.N., the United States is not a legitimate democracy. It is a flawed democracy.

Here is a quote from an article:

"Flawed democracies are nations where elections are fair and free and basic civil liberties are honored but may have issues (e.g. media freedom infringement). These nations have significant faults in other democratic aspects, including underdeveloped political culture, low levels of participation in politics, and issues in the functioning of governance."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

Countries such as the Scandinavian countries and Germany are full democracies, whereas the USA is in the same category as Mexico, India, and South Africa.
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How F’ing stupid! We are not, will not, and have never been a “democracy”. We are a “Constitutional republic”.
 
Moderate71 said:
If it gets bad enough, the U.N. might have to step in and force some changes in the USA. Possibly add a few Amendments to our constitution or repeal/modify a few.
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Are you baiting or do you really wish us to go to war with the U.N. so they can effect change on the U.S.?
Let me remind you, the United States is a sovereign nation. Nobody governs us but the people.
 
chuckiechan said:
How F’ing stupid! We are not, will not, and have never been a “democracy”. We are a “Constitutional republic”.
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Yeah, I'm down with this thread.

No sense wrestling in the mud.
 
iguanaman said:
Because minority rule sucks and breeds discontent. The Senate for instance is the most undemocratic body of our Govt. Its selection dilutes the votes of the large States and creates tyranny by the minority.
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I’m very confused. I asked why people keep saying we are not a democracy. I don’t see how the above answers that question.
 
Moderate71 said:
One issue the article mentions that erodes a democracy is people's distrust of the government and infringement of the press. In the USA people are allowed to be too critical of the government that grants them rights and the press that helps keep them informed. The president himself has criticized the press quite a bit. Perhaps a few legal standards need to be set to reign in some of the discontent.
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so you are a fascist or an authoritarian?
 
RE: possible reasons for this weird rightwing insistence that we are not a democracy:

Checkerboard Strangler said:
Advance inoculation to prepare the people to accept authoritarian totalitarianism.
And I will see these people hang before I acquiesce to that nonsense.
America is a representative democracy which functions in the framework of a constitutional republic.
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Yeah, I was suspecting that a little. It’s just so odd.
 
chuckiechan said:
How F’ing stupid! We are not, will not, and have never been a “democracy”. We are a “Constitutional republic”.
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Guess those elections are a sham, too.
No wonder you think Hillary is the POTUS and that the deep state is threatening Herr Trump.
 
ataraxia said:
RE: possible reasons for this weird rightwing insistence that we are not a democracy:



Yeah, I was suspecting that a little. It’s just so odd.
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A lot of money goes into reinforcing this bit of revisionist crap...you'd be surprised how much.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
A literal democracy is impossible, too volatile.
Mammals can't breathe pure oxygen either. Nature buffers the oxygen in a compound of inert gases.
Our democracy is buffered in similar fashion, like all "democracies" are.
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I have no problem with any of that, as long as you keep those quotation marks strapped on tight.
 
WillyPete said:
We're back in the definition hole again. How can we be a democracy in the U.S. when we don't vote directly on policy decisions?
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Because you vote for representatives who vote directly for policy decisions. Small "d" democracy is any system where the people vote.

How policy is determined is the central distinction between different types of government, not how the leaders are picked.
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If how policy is determined is the central distinction between different types of government, then how do you distinguish between the US's republic and Australia's constitutional monarchy?

We're a republic (we select leaders to make policy decisions) and we vote on the leaders. I don't have an issue with "representative democracy," though it still seems imperfect.

We're certainly not a literal democracy in any case. We use democratic methods to select the leaders of our republic.
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You're not a Democracy, with a big "D", but you're a democracy in that people vote, representative democracy is still democracy.
 
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