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Should a country conditioned to support dictatorship be supported by the international community?

SDET

SDET

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What if Venezuela succeeds in getting majority support though control of the media, mass-exile, murder and repression? One could technically say that the repression is by consent of the majority and fostered through democracy. Should the international community support such a popularly elected government? Why or why not?
 
SDET said:
What if Venezuela succeeds in getting majority support though control of the media, mass-exile, murder and repression? One could technically say that the repression is by consent of the majority and fostered through democracy. Should the international community support such a popularly elected government? Why or why not?
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I don't see why not. The international community supports Erdogan (Turkey), who used a fake coup to imprison a couple of thousand "enemies of the state" and seize their assets, kill off a couple of hundred and imprison about 25 Turkish journalists.

Erdogan did exactly what Venezuela might be planning to do ... and our media and liberals love Turkey and believe everything their state media spouts ... (grin)
 
Barnacle said:
I don't see why not. The international community supports Erdogan (Turkey), who used a fake coup to imprison a couple of thousand "enemies of the state" and seize their assets, kill off a couple of hundred and imprison about 25 Turkish journalists.

Erdogan did exactly what Venezuela might be planning to do ... and our media and liberals love Turkey and believe everything their state media spouts ... (grin)
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The conservatives, including Trump seemed to have been in love with Turkey and Erdogan until they imprisoned that pastor. A lot of conservatives, especially in Europe still are. Erdogan is what right-wing populists aspire to be, so of course they love him. Erdogan and Turkey is the end-goal of right-wing populism.
 
Carjosse said:
The conservatives, including Trump seemed to have been in love with Turkey and Erdogan until they imprisoned that pastor. A lot of conservatives, especially in Europe still are. Erdogan is what right-wing populists aspire to be, so of course they love him. Erdogan and Turkey is the end-goal of right-wing populism.
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Good grief, man. The pastor was arrested before Trump got elected.
As to the rest of your waffle, you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.
 
SDET said:
What if Venezuela succeeds in getting majority support though control of the media, mass-exile, murder and repression? One could technically say that the repression is by consent of the majority and fostered through democracy. Should the international community support such a popularly elected government? Why or why not?
Click to expand...

Not all countries are suited or even ready for democracy. One forgets that we, the united states had its beginning with the taste of democracy with the signing of the Magna Carta. That was 450 years of us getting ready for our democracy and the constitution to protect it. 450 years of experience moving towards a full bloomed democracy.

Not many other countries had that learning curve. As for Venezuela or any other country for that matter, what gives the international community the right to tell them why type of government they should have? I know we and the Europeans try to force our type of government on others. It worked and still works with a lot of gogs, stops and starts for us. We seized power or our freedom through arms and war, overthrew England. force one way or another seems to be about the only way to effect governmental change, sometimes peaceably, sometimes not.

As for the international community, us also, we have to deal with whatever type government other countries have, monarchy, dictatorship, democracy or something in-between.
 
SDET said:
What if Venezuela succeeds in getting majority support though control of the media, mass-exile, murder and repression? One could technically say that the repression is by consent of the majority and fostered through democracy. Should the international community support such a popularly elected government? Why or why not?
Click to expand...

What you risk is hypocrisy in the determination of what is and is not authoritarian control of the people via media control, repression, murder, etc.

This is more or less the method of operation in China, and despite the “trade war” is still one of our largest trading partners with seemingly no real rush to change the nation away from their style of governance. Besides, no one seems to be in much of a rush to harm the release schedule of the next iPhone.

This is also more or less the method of operation in Saudi Arabia, and despite the current news over this reporter there is no real interest in dropping a bomb on the international movement of oil.

Turkey is not all that different, or Iraq (we can pretend things are all humanitarian over there but it is far from the truth,) or Afghanistan, or Egypt, or dozens of other nations we engage on some level when it benefits western nations. All of which have their own means to control the people, the media, rights, etc.

So to isolate Venezuela (or Cuba for that matter) reveals our own diplomatic hypocrisy in dealing with nations, including how “international community support” for trade and/or other national interests ends up explained.

Everyone knows the goal of “conservatives” is to bash on Venezuela for their left leaning economic failures, but all the while we ignore right leaning totaltarian nations saying little to nothing about how those nations engage in controlling their own people.
 
Barnacle said:
Good grief, man. The pastor was arrested before Trump got elected.
As to the rest of your waffle, you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.
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My mistake when he was indicted earlier this year and now he has been released Trump is back to loving Turkey and Erdogan. The right-wing populists like Orban and Duda love the guy and his policies so much they are instituting the same ones and making themselves into dictators akin to Erdogan and their parties in the same position as the AK party. Namely increasing the power of the president and using the courts and new laws to take down opponents.
 
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OrphanSlug said:
Everyone knows the goal of “conservatives” is to bash on Venezuela for their left leaning economic failures, but all the while we ignore right leaning totaltarian nations saying little to nothing about how those nations engage in controlling their own people.
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All once prosperous and now failed states catch hell and for good reason. Venezuela is a nightmare resulting from populism and cronyism. Left and right hardly matters. When a "president" (Chavez) maintains power by selling petrol domestically at $.02/gallon, disaster is imminent.
 
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