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The failings of our outdated educational system

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Moderate71

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There have been bogus, nonsensical papers being published in Scientific journals, first with the Sokal Affair and now the "Grievance Studies" hoax. This says a lot about the sad state of our educational system and our Science programs in particular. I believe the cause of this is that STEM fields teach students to focus too much on rote information while neglecting to train them in how to critically interpret the facts to support their beliefs and perceptions. Most STEM programs do not require students to take ANY courses in Critical Thinking. Think about that for a minute. The lack of critical thinking in those areas leads to students in those disciplines being gullible and myopic. The traditional outlook of western science is still stuck in a naively positivistic outlook that is so outdated it has become irrelevant in today's ever changing world, not to mention how oppressive it is to women and minorities.

If the educational system wants to clean up the STEM disciplines and bring them up to par with the Liberal Arts in terms of intellectual rigour, colleges need to train STEM majors to think more critically. This can be accomplished by bringing the humanities and social sciences programs into the STEM paradigm, such as forcing all STEM majors to minor in a Liberal Arts field.

Here is a link to a video that shows what I am talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwFmrI5QQFI
 
Moderate71 said:
There have been bogus, nonsensical papers being published in Scientific journals, first with the Sokal Affair and now the "Grievance Studies" hoax. This says a lot about the sad state of our educational system and our Science programs in particular. I believe the cause of this is that STEM fields teach students to focus too much on rote information while neglecting to train them in how to critically interpret the facts to support their beliefs and perceptions. Most STEM programs do not require students to take ANY courses in Critical Thinking. Think about that for a minute. The lack of critical thinking in those areas leads to students in those disciplines being gullible and myopic. The traditional outlook of western science is still stuck in a naively positivistic outlook that is so outdated it has become irrelevant in today's ever changing world, not to mention how oppressive it is to women and minorities.

If the educational system wants to clean up the STEM disciplines and bring them up to par with the Liberal Arts in terms of intellectual rigour, colleges need to train STEM majors to think more critically. This can be accomplished by bringing the humanities and social sciences programs into the STEM paradigm, such as forcing all STEM majors to minor in a Liberal Arts field.
Click to expand...

There is damn little intellectual rigor at University now, to include at the Ivy's, and in almost all places the Liberal Arts have been long shredded in favor of indoctrination and cafeteria curriculums where the so-called students take the classes that they feel like....unguided and without purpose generally.

Often it turns out also without going to classes often times, because the so-called students have decided (or is it discovered) that going to class is not required to get the degree that they are after. They certainly are not there to learn most of them.
 
Moderate71 said:
There have been bogus, nonsensical papers being published in Scientific journals, first with the Sokal Affair and now the "Grievance Studies" hoax. This says a lot about the sad state of our educational system and our Science programs in particular. I believe the cause of this is that STEM fields teach students to focus too much on rote information while neglecting to train them in how to critically interpret the facts to support their beliefs and perceptions. Most STEM programs do not require students to take ANY courses in Critical Thinking. Think about that for a minute. The lack of critical thinking in those areas leads to students in those disciplines being gullible and myopic. The traditional outlook of western science is still stuck in a naively positivistic outlook that is so outdated it has become irrelevant in today's ever changing world, not to mention how oppressive it is to women and minorities.

If the educational system wants to clean up the STEM disciplines and bring them up to par with the Liberal Arts in terms of intellectual rigour, colleges need to train STEM majors to think more critically. This can be accomplished by bringing the humanities and social sciences programs into the STEM paradigm, such as forcing all STEM majors to minor in a Liberal Arts field.

Here is a link to a video that shows what I am talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwFmrI5QQFI
Click to expand...

If you had followed any of the anti fraudulent paper things you would be aware that the offenders are most extreme in the humanities not the STEM hard science areas.

That said I would like to see a law that said if you lie and call it science you go to jail.
 
Moderate71 said:
There have been bogus, nonsensical papers being published in Scientific journals, first with the Sokal Affair and now the "Grievance Studies" hoax. This says a lot about the sad state of our educational system and our Science programs in particular. I believe the cause of this is that STEM fields teach students to focus too much on rote information while neglecting to train them in how to critically interpret the facts to support their beliefs and perceptions. Most STEM programs do not require students to take ANY courses in Critical Thinking. Think about that for a minute. The lack of critical thinking in those areas leads to students in those disciplines being gullible and myopic. The traditional outlook of western science is still stuck in a naively positivistic outlook that is so outdated it has become irrelevant in today's ever changing world, not to mention how oppressive it is to women and minorities.

If the educational system wants to clean up the STEM disciplines and bring them up to par with the Liberal Arts in terms of intellectual rigour, colleges need to train STEM majors to think more critically. This can be accomplished by bringing the humanities and social sciences programs into the STEM paradigm, such as forcing all STEM majors to minor in a Liberal Arts field.

Here is a link to a video that shows what I am talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwFmrI5QQFI
Click to expand...

There is less critical thinking happening in liberal arts than STEM, not more. The problem is that critical thinking has been removed from all education. This was done deliberately by the government.
 
Anarchon said:
There is less critical thinking happening in liberal arts than STEM, not more. The problem is that critical thinking has been removed from all education. This was done deliberately by the government.
Click to expand...

Not exactly, it was done party by the elites who cant stand to be challenged usually because they either know or suspect that their knowledge base is weak thus they are weak thus challenges are dangerous to the continuing output of their gravy train which they care so much about.....but some of this happened by the good intentioned blundering of fools.

The underlying observation is true, that from birth on critical thinking is seldom/never taught or even suggested, because it is not wanted by power.
 
Anarchon said:
There is less critical thinking happening in liberal arts than STEM, not more. The problem is that critical thinking has been removed from all education. This was done deliberately by the government.
Click to expand...

Take a look at college major requirements. The only sciences that force you to take Critical Thinking courses are the Social Sciences, such as Sociology, Psychology, Gender Studies, and others. The reason we need the Liberal Arts is because it teaches students to think critically. It is constantly pounded into you in Liberal Arts courses like a mantra. Everything in the Liberal Arts is about being critical. You have Critical Theory, Critical Race Theory, Critical Gender Theory, Critical Queer Theory and so on. STEM is stuck in an obsolete obsession with verifiability and empirical data even though scientists have proven that falsifiability is all that matters. Instead of long strings of fragile logic that attempt to manipulatively persuade with irrelevant information, you give your argument and defend it against attacks. Whichever argument is easier to make and harder to attack is always the stronger argument. This is why the Social Sciences have been more impervious to manipulative pseudo-intellectual BS than fields such as Physics, Mathematics, Mechanical Engineering etc.

Again, the Liberal Arts force you to take Critical Thinking courses, not STEM. STEM focuses too much on factual verification and Analytical Thinking. Critical Thinking includes Analytical Thinking, except brings it to a higher plane. This is why even though Scientists, Mathematicians and Engineers may have Analytical Thinking skills somewhat on par with those of typical Liberal Arts graduates, they don't usually understand that Critical Thinking overrides factual information and Analytical Thinking.
 
Moderate71 said:
Take a look at college major requirements. The only sciences that force you to take Critical Thinking courses are the Social Sciences, such as Sociology, Psychology, Gender Studies, and others. The reason we need the Liberal Arts is because it teaches students to think critically. It is constantly pounded into you in Liberal Arts courses like a mantra. Everything in the Liberal Arts is about being critical. You have Critical Theory, Critical Race Theory, Critical Gender Theory, Critical Queer Theory and so on. STEM is stuck in an obsolete obsession with verifiability and empirical data even though scientists have proven that falsifiability is all that matters. Instead of long strings of fragile logic that attempt to manipulatively persuade with irrelevant information, you give your argument and defend it against attacks. Whichever argument is easier to make and harder to attack is always the stronger argument. This is why the Social Sciences have been more impervious to manipulative pseudo-intellectual BS than fields such as Physics, Mathematics, Mechanical Engineering etc.

Again, the Liberal Arts force you to take Critical Thinking courses, not STEM. STEM focuses too much on factual verification and Analytical Thinking. Critical Thinking includes Analytical Thinking, except brings it to a higher plane. This is why even though Scientists, Mathematicians and Engineers may have Analytical Thinking skills somewhat on par with those of typical Liberal Arts graduates, they don't usually understand that Critical Thinking overrides factual information and Analytical Thinking.
Click to expand...

Critical thinking is a necessary component of the STEM fields. You have to do it as part of what you are doing, whether it's taught or not. It is objective analysis, and that's required for the scientific process. You're wrong in saying that critical thinking is taught as part of the liberal arts, unless you're studying philosophy. They are also the least tolerant of criticism and objective analysis.

Walk into a gender studies program and start pointing out all of the logical fallacies they're making, and see how well it goes for you. Walk into a computer science class and point out logical errors, and they'll thank you for it.
 
Anarchon said:
Critical thinking is a necessary component of the STEM fields. You have to do it as part of what you are doing, whether it's taught or not. It is objective analysis, and that's required for the scientific process. You're wrong in saying that critical thinking is taught as part of the liberal arts, unless you're studying philosophy. They are also the least tolerant of criticism and objective analysis.

Walk into a gender studies program and start pointing out all of the logical fallacies they're making, and see how well it goes for you. Walk into a computer science class and point out logical errors, and they'll thank you for it.
Click to expand...

Anarchon said:
Critical thinking is a necessary component of the STEM fields. You have to do it as part of what you are doing, whether it's taught or not. It is objective analysis, and that's required for the scientific process. You're wrong in saying that critical thinking is taught as part of the liberal arts, unless you're studying philosophy. They are also the least tolerant of criticism and objective analysis.

Walk into a gender studies program and start pointing out all of the logical fallacies they're making, and see how well it goes for you. Walk into a computer science class and point out logical errors, and they'll thank you for it.
Click to expand...

Objective analysis is only Analytical Thinking that deals merely with facts and logic. Critical Thinking is a superset that transcends it. It is used to help determine which facts are relevant and which are not.

Traditional western logic is too dismissive of various forms of evidence such as anecdotal evidence and descriptive reasons which explain why we think something makes sense rather than trying to mine facts to support our argument. An example is "I think passing law A would cause B to happen." I support it with evidence by explaining how I think it would have effect C and this would cause B to happen.

You are wrong that Gender Studies doesn't focus on Critical Thinking. Here is a link to a field called Critical Gender Studies that focuses on how traditional male-centric viewpoints lack critical thinking.

https://cgs.ucsd.edu/

The Computer Science students try to rely on an outdated, stultifying Persuasive style rather than a more modern, inclusive Argumentative style. The Gender Studies students use an Argumentative style. Common Core is trying to change this.
 

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Moderate71 said:
There have been bogus, nonsensical papers being published in Scientific journals, first with the Sokal Affair and now the "Grievance Studies" hoax. This says a lot about the sad state of our educational system and our Science programs in particular. I believe the cause of this is that STEM fields teach students to focus too much on rote information while neglecting to train them in how to critically interpret the facts to support their beliefs and perceptions. Most STEM programs do not require students to take ANY courses in Critical Thinking. Think about that for a minute. The lack of critical thinking in those areas leads to students in those disciplines being gullible and myopic. The traditional outlook of western science is still stuck in a naively positivistic outlook that is so outdated it has become irrelevant in today's ever changing world, not to mention how oppressive it is to women and minorities.

If the educational system wants to clean up the STEM disciplines and bring them up to par with the Liberal Arts in terms of intellectual rigour, colleges need to train STEM majors to think more critically. This can be accomplished by bringing the humanities and social sciences programs into the STEM paradigm, such as forcing all STEM majors to minor in a Liberal Arts field.

Here is a link to a video that shows what I am talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwFmrI5QQFI
Click to expand...

The problem in STEM isn't that there aren't enough fluffy English and sociology classes and a lack of rigor in those areas. The problem is that there is too much fluff and not enough time spent in teaching the stuff that employers actually care about. In my computer science degree I learned a lot of calculus, computer math theory, chemistry, sociology, and technology culture classes. What employers are looking for are entry level employees who have experience working on actual projects, knowledge of the computer languages they are hiring for, good software design skills, good unit testing skills, etc. Colleges do teach these topics but they are often not rigorous enough and many don't even require crucial skills like database for graduation.

Student debt keeps rising, tuition keeps rising, and more and more people are losing faith in college. I see the future with a lot more online education, technical schools and boot-camps, and apprenticeships. I think that the time for fluffy liberal arts classes are the 12 years of elementary school to high school.
 
Moderate71 said:
Objective analysis is only Analytical Thinking that deals merely with facts and logic. Critical Thinking is a superset that transcends it. It is used to help determine which facts are relevant and which are not.

Traditional western logic is too dismissive of various forms of evidence such as anecdotal evidence and descriptive reasons which explain why we think something makes sense rather than trying to mine facts to support our argument. An example is "I think passing law A would cause B to happen." I support it with evidence by explaining how I think it would have effect C and this would cause B to happen.

You are wrong that Gender Studies doesn't focus on Critical Thinking. Here is a link to a field called Critical Gender Studies that focuses on how traditional male-centric viewpoints lack critical thinking.

https://cgs.ucsd.edu/

The Computer Science students try to rely on an outdated, stultifying Persuasive style rather than a more modern, inclusive Argumentative style. The Gender Studies students use an Argumentative style. Common Core is trying to change this.
Click to expand...

All that, then you link to a site that says sex and gender are different things. I understand your viewpoint now. You want logic to be loose that it allows you to be crazy. Sorry, there reaches a point when a mind becomes so open that **** begins to fall out and malfunction.

And, saying that computer science relies on emotion over logic is the most absurd thing I've seen you state so far.
 
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