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Rand Paul Sticks Foot In Mouth

ultmd said:
LOL, You CLEARLY understand NEITHER...."Fascism" nor "Socialism".

But your ignorance is not the problem.

Your problem is that you don't care. You embrace ignorance because you are afraid to challenge your personal biases.

Right wingers like you have been brainwashed to believe there are "liberal" facts and "conservative" facts. They believe that facts come with biases and that "academic elites" educate our young people (in Science, Math, History, etc.) with a political bias rather than with a bias toward objective FACTS. And these delusions allow you people to dismiss (as "liberal bias" or "liberal lies") any/alll information that doesn't reinforce your existing personal/political/social biases.

Those are the hallmarks of a blind ideologue.

But in this particular case, I'm just pointing out that you have a perverted personal definition of "fascism" that renders your entire argument in this thread pathetic and lampoonable.
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Fascism IS socialism. You haven't tried to explain how I'm wrong, because you can't.
 
Acadia said:
You really want to go there and attack a man who's had his ribs broken, pneumonia, pulmonary scarring, his life threatening, his family's life threatened including a man arrested who promised to chop them up and now his wife sleeps with a loaded gun by her bed?
Really?

How's your comfort level on a daily basis?

Further, Paul is absolutely right in his message. Perhaps he needs to amend it and say "more" people will die. But what he's saying is true.

Trying to undermine his message with some kind of "gotcha" is cheap.
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Screw Rand Paul, he and his neighbor had a war going on between each other, his broken ribs and whatever have nothing at all to do with white supremacists that murdered Heather Heyer. I'm sure they're ALL getting plenty of death threats, people are at a breaking point with their own anger for whatever reason. Rand Paul is a two-faced liar who trashed Trump during the Republican presidential debates in 2016 “a speck of dirt would make a better president”, but when he got election Rand Paul was suddenly all up in his ass. Suddenly, in the mind of Rand Paul, Trump has soared from lower than that speck of dirt to high enough for Mount Rushmore. He's a two-faced cowardly idiot that tries very hard to remain pertinent as Junior Senator.
 
apdst said:
Fascism IS socialism. You haven't tried to explain how I'm wrong, because you can't.
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Geoist said:
Fascism favors capitalism. They are not the same thing.
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apdst said:
Wrong. :lamo
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:lamo Seriously, apdst? Does that really make sense to you? Really? Think about what you keep saying for a minute before responding.

So....Fascism is Socialism, huh? Fascism is a synonym for Socialism, huh? And Fascism doesn't favor Capitalism, huh?

Can you find ANY academic sources to support those (idiotic) arguments?

Let's have some fun with this, shall we? It'll be fun to help you clarify these terms in your head.

So let's establish a couple of baseline facts as a foundation:

1. As a matter of basic social science, Fascism and Socialism are actually near opposites, just as Capitalism and Communism are opposites.
2. Capitalism and Socialism (unlike Fascism and Communism) are simply economic systems, and essentially amoral (not immoral, but a-moral).
3. Fascism and Communism (unlike Capitalism and Socialism) are principles and philosophies of economics, governance and basic morality.

Once you grasp the above basic concepts, you're ready to talk about this issue, and I'll be happy to fill in the gaps for you.

Now, that said,
 
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apdst said:
Doesn't take much to destroy an erroneous claim.
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The erroneous claim is yours. No self-respecting historian/political scientist would say fascism and socialism are the same thing.
 
Geoist said:
So for the past couple of years Rand Paul has gone from a libertarian-lite anti-partisan conservative to a hyper partisan Trumpster. But this time he has really stuck his foot in his mouth:

Yesterday, referring to the toxic political climate, Paul stated, 'I really worry that someone is going to be killed.’ Apparently, Paul forgot someone was already killed. Her name is Heather Heyer. Of course, no need to bring her up. She wasn’t on his ‘team.’

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate...te-i-really-worry-that-someone-is-going-to-be
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You mad your boy at the softball shooting wasn't successful in his mass assassination attempt?
 
Fishking said:
You mad your boy at the softball shooting wasn't successful in his mass assassination attempt?
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What a disgusting post. You should be better than this, Fishking.
 
Geoist said:
What a disgusting post. You should be better than this, Fishking.
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Your post didn't have much to work with, as there was a seeming implication that lethal violence hasn't been employed from both sides. That said, his comments were spot on. That Heather Heyer died during an exchange of mob violence doesn't negate his comments. A violent incident in the past doesn't negate the increased possibilities of it happening again, or more frequently.

As it stands now, we've had multiple GOP candidates and staff being assaulted in the last few days. We've had multiple officials and admin personnel mobbed and harassed in public. This the pot is starting to boil over, and it's not just from a marginalized fringe group, like the nazis. This is making it's way into the Democrat mainstream.
 
Geoist said:
The erroneous claim is yours. No self-respecting historian/political scientist would say fascism and socialism are the same thing.
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The erroneous statement was your claim that fascism favors capitalism. That's ****ing funny!
 
Geoist said:
What a disgusting post. You should be better than this, Fishking.
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Well, are you mad that the ballfield shooter didn't score any kills?
 
Fishking said:
Your post didn't have much to work with, as there was a seeming implication that lethal violence hasn't been employed from both sides. That said, his comments were spot on. That Heather Heyer died during an exchange of mob violence doesn't negate his comments. A violent incident in the past doesn't negate the increased possibilities of it happening again, or more frequently.
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No one has ever stated, or even suggested, that there is no political violence from "both sides". That's really a Strawman. The reality is that the VAST majority of political violence and violent extremism (in general) in America originates from RIGHT WING sources, not left wing sources. That's just a FACT that has been well-documented by poltiical scientists, advocacy organizations and non-partisan governmental and non-governmental entities. Dept. of Homeland Security has been regularly producing an updated summary of extremist violence and domestic terrorism in the U.S since it was created by the Bush '43 administration after the 911 attack in 2001. And EVER single edition has noted that the #1 threat of extremist violence/domestic terrorism in the U.S. is from RIGHT WING white nationalist/supremacist/sovereign citizen groups.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3924852-White-Supremacist-Extremism-JIB.html

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/R44921.pdf

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/08/21/i-warned-of-right-wing-violence-in-2009-it-caused-an-uproar-i-was-right/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.68a4e628001a

https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs2191/f/downloads/Gumbel.pdf

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/14/fbi-and-dhs-warned-of-growing-threat-from-white-supremacists-months-ago/

So the issue is not "both sides", and it never has been. This issue is that "ONE SIDE" is responsible for the OVERWHELMING majority of the extremist (racial, religious, political) violence in this country. And that OBJECTIVE, PROVABLE FACT is simply not arguable.

As it stands now, we've had multiple GOP candidates and staff being assaulted in the last few days. We've had multiple officials and admin personnel mobbed and harassed in public. This the pot is starting to boil over, and it's not just from a marginalized fringe group, like the nazis. This is making it's way into the Democrat mainstream.
Click to expand...

This "liberal mob"/"mob rule" meme is one of the silliest your party has created in recent years, for sure.

It's as though you all were born after the Tea Party uprisings of 2009-10. Of course, back then, it was "democracy in action" from the Tea People. Now, it's "mob rule" because the activists are from the other side.
 
apdst said:
The erroneous statement was your claim that fascism favors capitalism. That's ****ing funny!
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:lamo
No, what is "****ing funny!"........is the way you display ignorance like a flag.

Yes, Fascism favors Capitalism.

That is not arguable. And it really doesn't matter if you are ready to accept that BASIC fact, or not.

But, you do provide some good laughs. I'll give you that. :lamo
 
ultmd said:
:lamo
No, what is "****ing funny!"........is the way you display ignorance like a flag.

Yes, Fascism favors Capitalism.

That is not arguable. And it really doesn't matter if you are ready to accept that BASIC fact, or not.

But, you do provide some good laughs. I'll give you that. :lamo
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You're going push that lie, too?
 
Fishking said:
Your post didn't have much to work with, as there was a seeming implication that lethal violence hasn't been employed from both sides.
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There has been no such implication. However, your implication is clear: That I would support such violence if it was directed toward the right. That is a disgusting insinuation.
 
apdst said:
The erroneous statement was your claim that fascism favors capitalism. That's ****ing funny!
Click to expand...

Historically, fascist states have supported corporatist capitalism and strongly opposed socialism/communism. This is just reality.
 
apdst said:
Well, are you mad that the ballfield shooter didn't score any kills?
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Are you going to be parroting Fishking’s post now? You really want to go down that road?
 
ultmd said:
No one has ever stated, or even suggested, that there is no political violence from "both sides". That's really a Strawman.

The reality is that the VAST majority of political violence and violent extremism (in general) in America originates from RIGHT WING sources, not left wing sources. That's just a FACT that has been well-documented by poltiical scientists, advocacy organizations and non-partisan governmental and non-governmental entities. Dept. of Homeland Security has been regularly producing an updated summary of extremist violence and domestic terrorism in the U.S since it was created by the Bush '43 administration after the 911 attack in 2001. And EVER single edition has noted that the #1 threat of extremist violence/domestic terrorism in the U.S. is from RIGHT WING white nationalist/supremacist/sovereign citizen groups.
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Posting some examples, without any thought to what you're saying is lacking any form of analysis or application. First, it white-washes the violence on the left. Charlottesville is a great example of that. The original protesters were there, legally with a permit. Yes, they came ready for violence because they knew it would come. The counter-protesters did, indeed, show up to carry out violence against the original group. They were there without a permit, and the Mayor of the city gave the police stand-down orders, ensuring that the levels of violence would reach maximum levels. I believe this was done on purpose. So far, there I haven't seen any significant efforts to go after the violent counter-protesters for crimes, despite there being ample evidence for it. Similarly, all the reporting on it ignores it as well, just because the mob violence ultimately resulted in one person dying

Secondly, the violence on the right is from fringe sources that have no support from any mainstream of anything. They are isolated incidents spread around. There is no overarching violation of normal order or restrictions of normal liberties we take for granted, like free speech. Conversely, this is not true for the other side. They do have support from mainstream sources and, in fact, have been encouraged to do things like harass public official in public by elected officials.

So the issue is not "both sides", and it never has been. This issue is that "ONE SIDE" is responsible for the OVERWHELMING majority of the extremist (racial, religious, political) violence in this country. And that OBJECTIVE, PROVABLE FACT is simply not arguable.

This "liberal mob"/"mob rule" meme is one of the silliest your party has created in recent years, for sure.

It's as though you all were born after the Tea Party uprisings of 2009-10. Of course, back then, it was "democracy in action" from the Tea People. Now, it's "mob rule" because the activists are from the other side.
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I don't know what rock you've been hiding under but the liberal mob rule is widespread and the examples are legion. Your comparison between the fringe of the right and the mainstream of the left has been noted, though dismissed.
 
Fishking said:
Posting some examples, without any thought to what you're saying is lacking any form of analysis or application. First, it white-washes the violence on the left.
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Dumbest thing you've said in this thread...and that's saying something, considering the idiocy you've already spewed at Geoist.

"Lacking any form of analysis or application"? :lamo What the hell are you talking about? Did you just string those words together because they sounded intelligent to you, or what?

What I posted was, among other sources, the official Domestic Thread Assessment report from Dept. of Homeland Security. Clearly, you didn't read a word of it. Just as clearly, you never will, because (like most right wingers) you don't like to read anything that doesn't reaffirm your existingbiases. But that's not my problem. All I can do is post some of the objective scholarship the proves that RIGHT WINGERS are responsible for the VAST majority violent extremism in this country. There is ZERO "white washing" of violent extremism on the Left. It's all accounted for in EVER study publish. Of course, you don't know that, because you don't like to read.

I took the positive stop to post links to published research in the field...just for your sake. But again, it's not my responsibility to LEARN it for you, too.

Charlottesville is a great example of that. The original protesters were there, legally with a permit. Yes, they came ready for violence because they knew it would come. The counter-protesters did, indeed, show up to carry out violence against the original group. They were there without a permit, and the Mayor of the city gave the police stand-down orders, ensuring that the levels of violence would reach maximum levels. I believe this was done on purpose. So far, there I haven't seen any significant efforts to go after the violent counter-protesters for crimes, despite there being ample evidence for it. Similarly, all the reporting on it ignores it as well, just because the mob violence ultimately resulted in one person dying
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:lamo Of course you "believe" that it's basically a liberal conspiracy to NOT report "violence from the left". Of COURSE you do. What else would someone like you believe? Unfortunately, no one cares what you "believe". You're an irrational right winger. You think facts come with ideologies. You believe in conspiracy theories about "liberals" and "the left". And you think others should treat your bat-crap crazy feelings and OPINIONS with the same respect that they treat objective academic research. That's hilarious. But no serious person is going to take your assessments seriously.

Secondly, the violence on the right is from fringe sources that have no support from any mainstream of anything. They are isolated incidents spread around. There is no overarching violation of normal order or restrictions of normal liberties we take for granted, like free speech. Conversely, this is not true for the other side. They do have support from mainstream sources and, in fact, have been encouraged to do things like harass public official in public by elected officials.
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Nonsense. This is the kind of alternate reality b.s. that I'm talking about. The FACT is that right wing extremist violence is NOT only coming from the fringe of the conservative movement anymore. Hell, we just saw that the NY GOP was bringing speakers from the violent White Nationalist Proud Boys for their regular monthly meetings. That is simply not arguable. And again, if you READ a little, you'll educate yourself. But this is not even up for debate.

I don't know what rock you've been hiding under but the liberal mob rule is widespread and the examples are legion. Your comparison between the fringe of the right and the mainstream of the left has been noted, though dismissed.
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:lamo "liberal mob rule", huh?

Those talking points were spoken like a true-blue Trump acolyte. At least now I know what you are.

But reality is persistent and facts tend to be fairly stubborn. You and your brainwashed ilk are the only people who parrot that nonsense.
 
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Geoist said:
There has been no such implication. However, your implication is clear: That I would support such violence if it was directed toward the right. That is a disgusting insinuation.
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Then why are you ignoring it? Basically you were guilty of the same non-issue that you tried to put on Rand Paul.
 
Geoist said:
Historically, fascist states have supported corporatist capitalism and strongly opposed socialism/communism. This is just reality.
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That doesn't make it capitalism, bub.
 
ultmd said:
Did you just string those words together because they sounded intelligent to you, or what?
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Maybe it only seems like big words to someone who speaks in emojis. You seem rational.
 
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