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Ben Shapiro: 7 Myths of Democratic Socialism Debunked

Kal'Stang said:
Easy for you to act brave on an anonymous forum huh?
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You're anonymous yourself, in case you forgot.

All Shapiro can really do well is talk fast. Outside of that he displays the same level of ignorance most neocons do on global warming, secularism, health care, human sexuality, and plethora of other topics most conservative get wrong, too.

He's not anywhere near the intellectual he and his fanboys fancy him to be.
 
Renae said:

On most issues, I find Ben Shapiro to be a great voice to heed.
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He's really wrong. Dem socialism is a misnomer. It's modeled after Denmark, Norway, etc, which are capitalist countries. True socialism is where the state owns all of the means of production and distribution and no democrat I know favors that, even progressives. He's wrong because there is a distinction, apparently he asked the wrong person, who didn't give a satisfactory answer (I'll agree that Bernie has never given a good answer, which frustrates me, but he is really the wrong guy to ask this question because he doesn't appear to have really thought about it that much, though he has proclaimed himself the leader of this movement ), nor is Ben interested in the answer, he's only interested in furthering a right wing agenda.


It's really the issue of semantics. if Shapiro wants to conflate socialism with democratic socialism, then I'm not a democratic socialist, nor do I now anyone that is who claims to be one given that I do not know anyone who wants a totalitarian society except, perhaps, communists. What Ben doesn't mention is that in modern times, the world "socialism" and really lost it's meaning.


So, if he wants to argue the flaw in socialism, fine, but it's a red herring given that, I, as a progressive democrat, do not support a complete removal of the profit motive from all industries, only health care, defense, social services, fire, and police and regulatory agencies.
 
DamnYankee said:
I agree.

The problem is today's leftists have a deep desire for socialism and they are trying to candy coat it by calling it, "democratic socialism." Socialism is socialism no matter how you slice it. Look, you can put lip stick on a pig, but it's still a pig. Leftist use deception hoping everyone will be fooled. The only people buying their BS are other leftists. This is how they infect our country. Make a small gain, then use further deception to gain more ground.

Let's not forget, BO nationalized GM, and if they did it to GM, they can do it to other corps.
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BO did not nationalize GM. It's owned by stock holders.

You are wrong. No progressive I know, and those who call themselves "dem socialists", are really socialist, if they really understood what the definition of socialism is, and most of them have not. They just call themselves that because Bernie did, and they like Bernie. Bernie has done the progressive movement a great disservice by taking the socialist moniker, for it has given the right fodder for alarmist hysteria.

True socialism is totalitarianism, and no one I know on the left favors that.

But, the right want to believe this because it furthers their agenda, which they can only do by spreading lies, voter suppression, etc.
 
MovingPictures said:
You're anonymous yourself, in case you forgot.

All Shapiro can really do well is talk fast. Outside of that he displays the same level of ignorance most neocons do on global warming, secularism, health care, human sexuality, and plethora of other topics most conservative get wrong, too.

He's not anywhere near the intellectual he and his fanboys fancy him to be.
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I'm not the one claiming that he's the 37th dumbest person alive. ;)
 
OscarLevant said:
He's really wrong. Dem socialism is a misnomer. It's modeled after Denmark, Norway, etc, which are capitalist countries. True socialism is where the state owns all of the means of production and distribution and no democrat I know favors that, even progressives. He's wrong because there is a distinction, apparently he asked the wrong person, who didn't give a satisfactory answer (I'll agree that Bernie has never given a good answer, which frustrates me, but he is really the wrong guy to ask this question because he doesn't appear to have really thought about it that much, though he has proclaimed himself the leader of this movement ), nor is Ben interested in the answer, he's only interested in furthering a right wing agenda.


It's really the issue of semantics. if Shapiro wants to conflate socialism with democratic socialism, then I'm not a democratic socialist, nor do I now anyone that is who claims to be one given that I do not know anyone who wants a totalitarian society except, perhaps, communists. What Ben doesn't mention is that in modern times, the world "socialism" and really lost it's meaning.


So, if he wants to argue the flaw in socialism, fine, but it's a red herring given that, I, as a progressive democrat, do not support a complete removal of the profit motive from all industries, only health care, defense, social services, fire, and police and regulatory agencies.
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You should probably watch the whole video not the first 30 seconds.
 
OscarLevant said:
He's really wrong. Dem socialism is a misnomer. It's modeled after Denmark, Norway, etc, which are capitalist countries. True socialism is where the state owns all of the means of production and distribution and no democrat I know favors that, even progressives. He's wrong because there is a distinction, apparently he asked the wrong person, who didn't give a satisfactory answer (I'll agree that Bernie has never given a good answer, which frustrates me, but he is really the wrong guy to ask this question because he doesn't appear to have really thought about it that much, though he has proclaimed himself the leader of this movement ), nor is Ben interested in the answer, he's only interested in furthering a right wing agenda.


It's really the issue of semantics. if Shapiro wants to conflate socialism with democratic socialism, then I'm not a democratic socialist, nor do I now anyone that is who claims to be one given that I do not know anyone who wants a totalitarian society except, perhaps, communists. What Ben doesn't mention is that in modern times, the world "socialism" and really lost it's meaning.


So, if he wants to argue the flaw in socialism, fine, but it's a red herring given that, I, as a progressive democrat, do not support a complete removal of the profit motive from all industries, only health care, defense, social services, fire, and police and regulatory agencies.
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The DSA platform adds housing and food to your list of what should not be allowed to remain for profit enterprises. I find it odd that you did not include education in your limits on what democratic socialism wants to remove any profit from.
 
soylentgreen said:
This is just another person making the same basic mistakes about socialism that we always here from americans who have never really studied the subject but tend to listen to propaganda.

Start with his first contention that socialism is based on marx statement of "from each according to his needs...etc."

Where as in reality marx made that statement as a critique of the gotha program. Which claimed that workers should all be paid the same wage. Which meant that a worker with a large family would receive the same wage as a single man. Not very practical.

His interpretation of socialism is also contradictory. First he complains that democratic socialism is just socialism with the word democracy in front of it. He then explains the difference between a socialist country and one that is not by saying that canada is not socialist it is a capitalist socialist country.

So basically he swaps the word democratic for capitalist and suddenly his first argument becomes null even thought there is no difference except that he gets to choose which word goes in front of socialist.
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The DSA version of socialism does not wish to kill the golden goose of capitalism but to more highly regulate and tax it. The DSA version is more like: from each according to their ability to pay more taxes, to each according to their need for more subsidized (free?) goods/services.

The DSA version of socialism is not (or at least less) about government ownership of the means of production and more about having greater government control of 'private' industry and many more income redistribution schemes (a big one being 'affordable' housing).
 
soylentgreen said:
Your canadian so hopefully have a better chance than america whose system of governance brought them trump.
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Thank you.
In our 2015 election, PM Steven Harper (who I had no serious quarrels with before) turned a little too hard to the right. For example, his campaign had a lot of "get tough on crime" when all the statistics were saying crime is coming down in Canada. Anyways, the voters pushed him out of office. The system seems to be working OK here in Canada, but . . . .
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The DSA version of socialism does not wish to kill the golden goose of capitalism but to more highly regulate and tax it. The DSA version is more like: from each according to their ability to pay more taxes, to each according to their need for more subsidized (free?) goods/services.

The DSA version of socialism is not (or at least less) about government ownership of the means of production and more about having greater government control of 'private' industry and many more income redistribution schemes (a big one being 'affordable' housing).
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I would have to disagree on the comment about government control. Politicians are not there to be business men just as business is not there to govern.

Government does not tell business how to run their business. They do not sit on boards or interfere with private ownership. They do however have a hand in regulations and law making. Which is fair enough. A socialist government would consider the needs of consumers as much as they do the needs of business.
 
TDGonDP said:
Thank you.
In our 2015 election, PM Steven Harper (who I had no serious quarrels with before) turned a little too hard to the right. For example, his campaign had a lot of "get tough on crime" when all the statistics were saying crime is coming down in Canada. Anyways, the voters pushed him out of office. The system seems to be working OK here in Canada, but . . . .
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Same here in new zealand. We have just elected our first real multiparty government after 24 years of an multi membership party voting system. And have gone through 11 years of a right wing national government. We now have a two left wing and a middle right wing parties in government. Interesting times
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The DSA platform adds housing and food to your list of what should not be allowed to remain for profit enterprises. I find it odd that you did not include education in your limits on what democratic socialism wants to remove any profit from.
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It wasn't meant to be a complete list moreover we have public education already.

There are always going to be poor people and since capitalism does not accommodate poor people the only remedy for that group is socialism though it too is not a perfect solution. there is no perfect solution for poverty. Even your god of libertarianism, Milton Friedman, suggested a negative income tax for those below the threshold of poverty. No one on the left I know recommends a complete totalitarian takeover of all means of production and distribution which is what true socialism is. no one is recommending that except true socialists and true communists.
 
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