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Ben Shapiro: 7 Myths of Democratic Socialism Debunked

Renae

Renae

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On most issues, I find Ben Shapiro to be a great voice to heed.
 
Renae said:

On most issues, I find Ben Shapiro to be a great voice to heed.
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Ben has a strong reputation for being reasoned and this is obviously the case but sometimes he lets some condescension creep in.

I do not care for that part but he is surely eloquent.
 
Interesting Video

My personal "ideology" is that there are times when we have to let individuals make their own decisions and live with the consequences. And there are times when we have to take collective action to move our society forward.

The challenge lies with how we make these kinds of decisions. Western democracy is limited in this regard.
 
This is just another person making the same basic mistakes about socialism that we always here from americans who have never really studied the subject but tend to listen to propaganda.

Start with his first contention that socialism is based on marx statement of "from each according to his needs...etc."

Where as in reality marx made that statement as a critique of the gotha program. Which claimed that workers should all be paid the same wage. Which meant that a worker with a large family would receive the same wage as a single man. Not very practical.

His interpretation of socialism is also contradictory. First he complains that democratic socialism is just socialism with the word democracy in front of it. He then explains the difference between a socialist country and one that is not by saying that canada is not socialist it is a capitalist socialist country.

So basically he swaps the word democratic for capitalist and suddenly his first argument becomes null even thought there is no difference except that he gets to choose which word goes in front of socialist.
 
soylentgreen said:
This is just another person making the same basic mistakes about socialism that we always here from americans who have never really studied the subject but tend to listen to propaganda.

Start with his first contention that socialism is based on marx statement of "from each according to his needs...etc."

Where as in reality marx made that statement as a critique of the gotha program. Which claimed that workers should all be paid the same wage. Which meant that a worker with a large family would receive the same wage as a single man. Not very practical.

His interpretation of socialism is also contradictory. First he complains that democratic socialism is just socialism with the word democracy in front of it. He then explains the difference between a socialist country and one that is not by saying that canada is not socialist it is a capitalist socialist country.

So basically he swaps the word democratic for capitalist and suddenly his first argument becomes null even thought there is no difference except that he gets to choose which word goes in front of socialist.
Click to expand...

Hardly, he breaks it down through 7 concise points, and I agree with him.
 
Renae said:
Hardly, he breaks it down through 7 concise points, and I agree with him.
Click to expand...

I just bothered with his first two mistakes. From there it was just another americans spouting the same old propaganda.

You can agree with him. That is not the point. Can you tell me what is wrong with the two critiques i made is more the issue.

He does not understand that marx's quote is not the basis for socialism. That socialism is a philosophy not a religion therefor whatever marx said does not count as prophecy or a law of socialism but instead a mere observation by a person long dead and not relevant to the modern world.

And how do you deal with the rather simpleminded contradiction of replacing democracy with capitalism?
 
Socialism = government ownership of the means of production. Not even Bernie Sanders has proposed nationalizing the manufacturing sector.

People on the right like to lie about this for cheap political points and purposes of group-signaling. It's really that simple.

:shrug:
 
Renae said:
On most issues, I find Ben Shapiro to be a great voice to heed.
Click to expand...

I agree.

The problem is today's leftists have a deep desire for socialism and they are trying to candy coat it by calling it, "democratic socialism." Socialism is socialism no matter how you slice it. Look, you can put lip stick on a pig, but it's still a pig. Leftist use deception hoping everyone will be fooled. The only people buying their BS are other leftists. This is how they infect our country. Make a small gain, then use further deception to gain more ground.

Let's not forget, BO nationalized GM, and if they did it to GM, they can do it to other corps.
 
soylentgreen said:
I just bothered with his first two mistakes. From there it was just another americans spouting the same old propaganda.

You can agree with him. That is not the point. Can you tell me what is wrong with the two critiques i made is more the issue.

He does not understand that marx's quote is not the basis for socialism. That socialism is a philosophy not a religion therefor whatever marx said does not count as prophecy or a law of socialism but instead a mere observation by a person long dead and not relevant to the modern world.

And how do you deal with the rather simpleminded contradiction of replacing democracy with capitalism?
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I wouldn't hold your breath, lol.
 
Mr Person said:
Socialism = government ownership of the means of production. Not even Bernie Sanders has proposed nationalizing the manufacturing sector.

People on the right like to lie about this for cheap political points and purposes of group-signaling. It's really that simple.

:shrug:
Click to expand...

No, socialism does not mean that at all. Marx and others of the past use that concept. But as stated socialism is not a religion, they did not set the tenets of socialism.

There is no need for state ownership that is simply a philosophical point.

The only thing pure and simple here is the mentality of people who treat a philosophy as if it was the word of a god.
 
soylentgreen said:
No, socialism does not mean that at all. Marx and others of the past use that concept. But as stated socialism is not a religion, they did not set the tenets of socialism. There is no need for state ownership that is simply a philosophical point. The only thing pure and simple here is the mentality of people who treat a philosophy as if it was the word of a god.
Click to expand...

Oh, ok, all the dictionaries are wrong then? All my memory of historical reading is wrong then?



Definition of socialism

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property

b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism





noun

a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/socialism



Should I check Oxford English to see if it knows less than Random Internet Poster soylentgreen, who is aware of the true secret definition of "socialism"?

:lamo

Seriously.... just stop. People are constantly trying to redefine socialism for purposes of stupid and dishonest political attacks. Socialism does, in fact, describe an economic system in which the means of production are owned by government.
 
Renae said:
...On most issues, I find Ben Shapiro to be a great voice to heed.
Click to expand...

The very first thing he said was socialism = democratic socialism. And that Bernie never explained the difference. Both are incorrect. There are plenty of sources if you just google it.

Here is one article about some differences.

Did not bother to watch the rest...
 
soylentgreen said:
This is just another person making the same basic mistakes about socialism that we always here from americans who have never really studied the subject but tend to listen to propaganda.

Start with his first contention that socialism is based on marx statement of "from each according to his needs...etc."

Where as in reality marx made that statement as a critique of the gotha program. Which claimed that workers should all be paid the same wage. Which meant that a worker with a large family would receive the same wage as a single man. Not very practical.

His interpretation of socialism is also contradictory. First he complains that democratic socialism is just socialism with the word democracy in front of it. He then explains the difference between a socialist country and one that is not by saying that canada is not socialist it is a capitalist socialist country.

So basically he swaps the word democratic for capitalist and suddenly his first argument becomes null even thought there is no difference except that he gets to choose which word goes in front of socialist.
Click to expand...

Yep. Mr. Shapiro is doing the same kind of wordsmithing he claims his opponents are doing.

The truth is that all western nations have elements of socialism and capitalism embedded in their social/political structure. For example, the USA has lots of disaster relief programs for victims of natural disasters. In a true capitalistic model, we could argue that those people chose to live in a riskier location, so should suffer the consequences without any government money.

We need both elements to create a strong civil society. Hopefully our system of government is creating that right balance.
 
I have clothes older than that kid. However!

Canada is not a socialist country, Canada is a capitalist country with social(ist) programs.
Click to expand...

And there he answers his own unanswerable question what is "Democratic Socialism". Mixed economies of capitalism that incorporate social programs to insure a broad consumer base and a safety net for when things don't go as planed/hoped so that no one is left out in the cold and starving.

OH, it is NOT totalitarian socialism.
 
Renae said:
On most issues, I find Ben Shapiro to be a great voice to heed.
Click to expand...

Judging by the way the leftists used slimy tactics on Kavanaugh, his wife, and children, and then their elites come out and advocate violence on those who don't agree with them, I'd say any possible BS they present to fool people into believing their brand of socialism is so wonderful, has to be a bunch of crapola. I mean this so-called "democratic" socialism relies on heavy gov't regulations which is nothing more than gov't control of production/distribution. Furthermore, leftists would like nothing more than to raise taxes and regulate the living **** out of all of us.

Like I said, putting lip stick on a pig doesn't change the fact, it's still a pig.
 
"Democratic Socialism" is so wonderful, leftists had to force Obamacare down America's throat.
 
Mr Person said:
Oh, ok, all the dictionaries are wrong then? All my memory of historical reading is wrong then?



Definition of socialism

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property

b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism





noun

a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/socialism



Should I check Oxford English to see if it knows less than Random Internet Poster soylentgreen, who is aware of the true secret definition of "socialism"?

:lamo

Seriously.... just stop. People are constantly trying to redefine socialism for purposes of stupid and dishonest political attacks. Socialism does, in fact, describe an economic system in which the means of production are owned by government.
Click to expand...

No, it is not that dictionaries are wrong. It is that they give only the one definition and that based on a past definition.

The argument is not that socialism was never considered as a state owned enterprise. The argument is that you need to make a good argument for a state owned enterprise rather than just treat socialism as if it were gospel..

I suggest you try checking on your own ability to think for yourself rather than just have blind faith in what you read.

While your about it try coming up with a good reason as to why government should own all businesses rather than try and pretend socialism is bible written by marx.
 
soylentgreen said:
This is just another person making the same basic mistakes about socialism that we always here from americans who have never really studied the subject but tend to listen to propaganda.

Start with his first contention that socialism is based on marx statement of "from each according to his needs...etc."

Where as in reality marx made that statement as a critique of the gotha program. Which claimed that workers should all be paid the same wage. Which meant that a worker with a large family would receive the same wage as a single man. Not very practical.

His interpretation of socialism is also contradictory. First he complains that democratic socialism is just socialism with the word democracy in front of it. He then explains the difference between a socialist country and one that is not by saying that canada is not socialist it is a capitalist socialist country.

So basically he swaps the word democratic for capitalist and suddenly his first argument becomes null even thought there is no difference except that he gets to choose which word goes in front of socialist.
Click to expand...

Another "thats not real socialism" argument.
 
TDGonDP said:
Yep. Mr. Shapiro is doing the same kind of wordsmithing he claims his opponents are doing.

The truth is that all western nations have elements of socialism and capitalism embedded in their social/political structure. For example, the USA has lots of disaster relief programs for victims of natural disasters. In a true capitalistic model, we could argue that those people chose to live in a riskier location, so should suffer the consequences without any government money.

We need both elements to create a strong civil society. Hopefully our system of government is creating that right balance.
Click to expand...

Your canadian so hopefully have a better chance than america whose system of governance brought them trump.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Pretty sure that "37th dumbest person alive" could run circles around you without breaking a sweat.
Click to expand...
I suppose it's easy to convince the ignorant that you're intelligent when you deliver your argument in a manner that suggests you've been drinking Red Bull all morning.
 
MovingPictures said:
I suppose it's easy to convince the ignorant that you're intelligent when you deliver your argument in a manner that suggests you've been drinking Red Bull all morning.
Click to expand...

Easy for you to act brave on an anonymous forum huh?
 
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