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What to make of this complicated time in our nation's history? Some thoughts from Doris Kearns Goodw

Irwin Corey

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She begins pointing out the crisis' our nation faced when Lincoln, T.R. Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson took office.

At each crisis, healing change percolated from aroused citizens joining together with their leaders toward a moral purpose. While today's disunity is not as dire, it is potentially deeply damaging. ... Theodore Roosevelt warned that the rock on which democracy would founder would be when regions, classes, races and parties regarded one another as "The Other," rather than as citizens marked by fellow feeling, banding together for the best interests of our country. ... Franklin Roosevelt insisted, that problems created by man can be solved by man, so long as we pull together toward a common end.

Whether the change we seek will be positive and inclusive depends not only on our leaders but on us. What we as individuals do now, how and if we unite, can make all the difference. It is time for us to heed Abraham Lincoln's plea that we engage together in "calm and enlarged consideration ranging far above personal and partisan politics."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/historian-doris-kearns-goodwin-on-whether-we-are-living-in-the-worst-of-times/

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way – in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only....

A TALE OF TWO CITIES - Charles Dickens

No matter if you are FAAAAAAR Right or EXTREEEEEEEM Left, now is the time for ALL AMERICANS to pull together. If we continue this trend of hateful, fearful infighting we WILL destroy each other, our Constitution and our Beloved Country! I don't care if you hate "lefties" or fear "righties", remember HATE and FEAR is how you are being controlled. STOP!!!
 
She begins pointing out the crisis' our nation faced when Lincoln, T.R. Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson took office.





No matter if you are FAAAAAAR Right or EXTREEEEEEEM Left, now is the time for ALL AMERICANS to pull together. If we continue this trend of hateful, fearful infighting we WILL destroy each other, our Constitution and our Beloved Country! I don't care if you hate "lefties" or fear "righties", remember HATE and FEAR is how you are being controlled. STOP!!!


Holy crap dude, this is the first post you have written that I have read that I actually agree with. :agree Were you replaced by a space alien? :aliens2: Anyway yes I agree whole hearted with your sentiments. :cheers:
 
Holy crap dude, this is the first post you have written that I have read that I actually agree with. :agree Were you replaced by a space alien? :aliens2: Anyway yes I agree whole hearted with your sentiments. :cheers:

This was my first thought as well. At some point civility needs to return because it is obvious the path we are heading towards ends violently. This idea on the Right that anything that angers the "libs" must be good and the idea on the left that if you disagree with them then that must mean you are an evil racist, bigot, homophobe needs to stop. My fear is that it is too late and both sides have fully bought into that dichotomy.
 
While today's disunity is not as dire, it is potentially deeply damaging.
A very ignorant comment from her.....The New Chinese Empire is on the march, the entire West is disintegrating, our self inflicted damage to ourselves could not come at a worse time.
 
She begins pointing out the crisis' our nation faced when Lincoln, T.R. Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson took office.





No matter if you are FAAAAAAR Right or EXTREEEEEEEM Left, now is the time for ALL AMERICANS to pull together. If we continue this trend of hateful, fearful infighting we WILL destroy each other, our Constitution and our Beloved Country! I don't care if you hate "lefties" or fear "righties", remember HATE and FEAR is how you are being controlled. STOP!!!

You typically need some kind if catalyst that takes the focus away from the divisive aspect of politics. Politicians of course could lead the way by working together more often, but the current environment would be bad for ratings and politicians have an eye one either staying in power or moving to the private sector to make more money. Unless something changes, it will either level off and stay at this level or folks double down on dumb and keep escalating. If DP were representative of this country, I'd say it's time to plan for things getting worse before they get better.
 
You typically need some kind if catalyst that takes the focus away from the divisive aspect of politics. Politicians of course could lead the way by working together more often, but the current environment would be bad for ratings and politicians have an eye one either staying in power or moving to the private sector to make more money. Unless something changes, it will either level off and stay at this level or folks double down on dumb and keep escalating. If DP were representative of this country, I'd say it's time to plan for things getting worse before they get better.

Great leaders can do it.

Where are Americas great leaders?

Where are all of the worlds great leaders?
 
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Good question. Mars maybe?

The best and almost only that America has been able to produce for a long time are forged in the military, and even they are not so hot, and are increasingly worse I think.
 
This was my first thought as well. At some point civility needs to return because it is obvious the path we are heading towards ends violently. This idea on the Right that anything that angers the "libs" must be good and the idea on the left that if you disagree with them then that must mean you are an evil racist, bigot, homophobe needs to stop. My fear is that it is too late and both sides have fully bought into that dichotomy.

Personally I think the best way, is to disengage. What I mean by that, is put your word out, and talk to those who wish to talk, not argue or debate, just talk, explain your side best you can and leave them be to decide for themselves. Dont try to convert people. They want to know more let em come to you. Dont play a preacher of some sort of gospel. If somebody says bad things to you online or however except directly, just ignore it, and do YOUR thing. If they say something to you in person, well.... at least they have balls or tits as the case may be, and you play it as you see fit.

I prefer my dirty work in person. If I am going to be wicked, mean, nasty, and cruel, not mention ruthless*, I want my opponent to see my smile as we duel. I dont normally engage or even acknowledge a slight, unless I feel a lesson in assholery is warranted for the particularly egregious offence. After all I, being the self proclaimed Emperor of All Assholes Everywhere, have to have some standards you know. Lessons should be memorable for all, dont you think?
*(My five best qualities.:devil:)

I digress, I believe that we must resist the temptation to engage every slight anywhere, and to limit our reactions to our immediate presence and the here and now. To do otherwise is to invite escalation to a point where it because so difficult to back down as to nigh be impossible. At that point the die will be cast and what results will be anyone's guess but most likely bode ill for all.

All sides need to quit their political teams, and try to become more dispassionate in their political disposition. This means figuring out what the rules are and agreeing to stick to them and NOT attempt to go around or break them and to unite against those who would. We need a firm set of rules we can agree on to set the playing field. We need to say TOGETHER these are the rules and we will do our best to follow them without fail. That if we decide to change them we must have consensus.

Lastly I think we need desperately to lower the stakes of our political game. I believe the intensity of our politics is directly related to the stakes involved. Government should not be so encompassing of our lives that mere elections can effect them potentially direly. I have no idea how to do this without major upheaval.


To StuPedaso good thread.
 
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At present … not in the White House.

Actually Trump is one the the best we have seen in a generation so your powers of discernment suck, but that is only one man, where is everyone else?
 
The best America has been able to produce for a long time are forged in the military, and even they are not so hot.

When you think about it, the role of president is one where you're never going to please everyone. That said though, there are some people who have been able to unify people because their vision of a united country was greater than their party's goals. Leading effectively is knowing how to build bridges and work with others; even when they don't agree with you. The current environment is killing off that possibility because it's so divisive.
 
Actually Trump is one the the best we have seen in a generation so your powers of discernment suck, but that is only one man, where is everyone else?

For only a subset of the population. If he were a unifying figure I'd be inclined to agree, but that hasn't been the way he's carried himself. He started drawing lines very early on and hasn't really stopped.
 
When you think about it, the role of president is one where you're never going to please everyone. That said though, there are some people who have been able to unify people because their vision of a united country was greater than their party's goals. Leading effectively is knowing how to build bridges and work with others; even when they don't agree with you. The current environment is killing off that possibility because it's so divisive.

It is also a matter of knowing where to go, and knowing how to get there, or at least being able to figure it out..being able to bring people together is a very small part of the whole package. For the most part all you need to do to bring people together his to hand out free stuff, bringing people together is not that hard.
 
It is also a matter of knowing where to go, and knowing how to get there, or at least being able to figure it out..being able to bring people together is a very small part of the whole package. For the most part all you need to do to bring people together his to hand out free stuff, bringing people together is not that hard.

Sure, it's worked for both parties.
 
Actually Trump is one the the best we have seen in a generation so your powers of discernment suck, but that is only one man, where is everyone else?
Yes. Trump is a great, unifying leader ideally poised to usher in a new era of civil, civic engagement.

Lol. Trump is the first president in my lifetime to cause families to reorganize seating at holiday gatherings. He’ll need to hope for another 9/11 or just start, and win, a war against someone everyone hates to bring this country together.
 
She begins pointing out the crisis' our nation faced when Lincoln, T.R. Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson took office.





No matter if you are FAAAAAAR Right or EXTREEEEEEEM Left, now is the time for ALL AMERICANS to pull together. If we continue this trend of hateful, fearful infighting we WILL destroy each other, our Constitution and our Beloved Country! I don't care if you hate "lefties" or fear "righties", remember HATE and FEAR is how you are being controlled. STOP!!!

Let me guess, the only way to "pull together" is to acquiesce to the Left's agenda?
 
When you think about it, the role of president is one where you're never going to please everyone. That said though, there are some people who have been able to unify people because their vision of a united country was greater than their party's goals. Leading effectively is knowing how to build bridges and work with others; even when they don't agree with you. The current environment is killing off that possibility because it's so divisive.

The people who hate President Trump carry their share of the blame.
 
Yes. Trump is a great, unifying leader ideally poised to usher in a new era of civil, civic engagement.

Lol. Trump is the first president in my lifetime to cause families to reorganize seating at holiday gatherings. He’ll need to hope for another 9/11 or just start, and win, a war against someone everyone hates to bring this country together.

Trump leads a Rebellion against incompetence of the elites and the tyranny of the elites mostly through the corrupt state, the rising of which is progress, because we were headed for a Hellish existence in chains.

Thanks to Trump we now have a fighting chance of staying free.
 
Let me guess, the only way to "pull together" is to acquiesce to the Left's agenda?

No, not at all. Finding a middle ground and abandoning your kind of rhetoric; AbsaByGodLutely.
 
The people who hate President Trump carry their share of the blame.

But where does Trump fit into that equation; equating the left to arsonists? If we had that kind of leadership through the Great Depression and WWII WEwouldn't be AmeriCANs.
 
Personally I think the best way, is to disengage. What I mean by that, is put your word out, and talk to those who wish to talk, not argue or debate, just talk, explain your side best you can and leave them be to decide for themselves. Dont try to convert people. They want to know more let em come to you. Dont play a preacher of some sort of gospel. If somebody says bad things to you online or however except directly, just ignore it, and do YOUR thing. If they say something to you in person, well.... at least they have balls or tits as the case may be, and you play it as you see fit.

I prefer my dirty work in person. If I am going to be wicked, mean, nasty, and cruel, not mention ruthless*, I want my opponent to see my smile as we duel. I dont normally engage or even acknowledge a slight, unless I feel a lesson in assholery is warranted for the particularly egregious offence. After all I, being the self proclaimed Emperor of All Assholes Everywhere, have to have some standards you know. Lessons should be memorable for all, dont you think?
*(My five best qualities.:devil:)

I digress, I believe that we must resist the temptation to engage every slight anywhere, and to limit our reactions to our immediate presence and the here and now. To do otherwise is to invite escalation to a point where it because so difficult to back down as to nigh be impossible. At that point the die will be cast and what results will be anyone's guess but most likely bode ill for all.

All sides need to quit their political teams, and try to become more dispassionate in their political disposition. This means figuring out what the rules are and agreeing to stick to them and NOT attempt to go around or break them and to unite against those who would. We need a firm set of rules we can agree on to set the playing field. We need to say TOGETHER these are the rules and we will do our best to follow them without fail. That if we decide to change them we must have consensus.

Lastly I think we need desperately to lower the stakes of our political game. I believe the intensity of our politics is directly related to the stakes involved. Government should not be so encompassing of our lives that mere elections can effect them potentially direly. I have no idea how to do this without major upheaval.


To StuPedaso good thread.

That is an almost Zen approach. I like it.
 
What's your idea of "middle ground"?

Lack of Fear and Hate, a whole lot of understanding without name calling.
 
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