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[W:305]Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Wan said:
But if she is truly experiencing hate or even receiving death threats, there is legal recourse for that.
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You see it here and on similar social media sites. It's all the more inmpressive that a second accuser has now come forward. Now we know why they want him installed so fast. The GOP knew there was another several days ago.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

NeverTrumpGOP said:
IDK about you, but IDT Supreme Court Justices should lie.
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False accusers also should not lie. The only right way to handle a last second drive by assassination attempt is to give the woman a day in public to air her complaints and then to move forward. Democrats have again resorted to immoral and unjust tactics attempting to derail Trump's nominee to SCOTUS. This is not about the woman it is about democrats doing every dirty dishonest thing they can to keep their wicked presence on SCOTUS.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

DiAnna said:
We would all be happy to see it and examine it. Unfortunately, the Judicial Committee will not allow Dr. Ford to present any corroborating witnesses or evidence, nor will the WH allow the FBI to complete their background check by properly interviewing witnesses, as has been the precedent in these cases for decades.

It's a rigged game, fixed to result in a stalemate. Does that answer your question?
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I am sorry...what corroborating witnesses? Everyone that has been mentioned in news has refused her letter

What evidence? Please share what she has....

We would all love to see it

I guess we will agree to disagree about the FBI...they did six background investigations already....you all want a 7th...but no one can tell me what exactly they are to investigate

A 35 year old case wire zero proof....did you all just expect us to believe her story? I mean really...did you?
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Kal'Stang said:
What does she have to prove? Just like ever single other person in the entire United States that makes an accusation about another she has to prove that her claim is real. That it happened. We do not live in the Salem days when a simple accusation was enough to get someone burned alive at the stake.
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You are wrong.

He is not on trial. This is a job interview.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Kal'Stang said:
No, my take is shaped by evidence. If you think its partisanship to want evidence then all you're doing is allowing your own biases to shape your thinking.
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This makes no sense.

How does bias enter in on my behalf?

I am not saying I believe her or that I don't. I am not saying out him on the court or not because of this.

I am simply saying that your standard does not apply here.

Again, this is a job interview not a trial.

Maybe your blind to your own bias?
or
Perhaps you can never delineate between a job interview and a trial.

I don't know, I do not know you well enough to say,.

Serious question, did your profession require you to interview and hire people?
I had to base decisions around stuff like this more than once.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

noonereal said:
You are wrong.

He is not on trial. This is a job interview.
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This is not just a "job interview". This is a mans life at stake. His family is also at stake. And he is on trial to the whole country.

And no, I'm NOT wrong. Proving a claim is what our entire society is based on. Everything from whether Velcro works to reaching the moon...ALL of it had to be proven before people would accept it. When a claim is made, doesn't matter what the claim is, that claim HAS to be proven. Anyone that just accepts a claim without any evidence is a Grade A Idiot with a Capital I.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Kal'Stang said:
This is not just a "job interview". This is a mans life at stake. His family is also at stake. And he is on trial to the whole country.

And no, I'm NOT wrong. Proving a claim is what our entire society is based on. Everything from whether Velcro works to reaching the moon...ALL of it had to be proven before people would accept it. When a claim is made, doesn't matter what the claim is, that claim HAS to be proven. Anyone that just accepts a claim without any evidence is a Grade A Idiot with a Capital I.
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His life is at stake?

Come on, don't be hysterical.

You are just making stuff up.... proving a claim is what our law is based on. To that end we have varying levels of reasonable belief.

This has to do with none of that.

You can stammer and shout till you are red in the face but this has nothing to do with legal standards.

This is simply something to consider. Personally I have no clue if the women is credible or not. We will need to hear her speak.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

noonereal said:
His life is at stake?

Come on, don't be hysterical.

You are just making stuff up.... proving a claim is what our law is based on. To that end we have varying levels of reasonable belief.

This has to do with none of that.

You can stammer and shout till you are red in the face but this has nothing to do with legal standards.

This is simply something to consider. Personally I have no clue if the women is credible or not. We will need to hear her speak.
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Yes, his life is at stake. And no, I'm not talking about him going to die. You do know that "life" can mean more than JUST being alive right? It can also encompass everything else about a person. Their livelihood. Their reputation. Ever being able to get another job. Everything that makes him HIM is what is at stake right now. Even the accusation of improper sexual conduct towards a man is enough to taint that man in the eyes of many. Doesn't matter whether the accusation was true or not. Doesn't even matter if it is just a rumor. No one looks at the guy the same ever again. Which is why I laugh at anyone that complains of "rape culture".

And you're right, it doesn't have to do with legal standards. But it does have everything to do with doing what is RIGHT. And you don't drag ANYONE's name through the mud unless you have proof of the claim that you are making. Doesn't matter if its joe blow down the street or a SCOTUS nominee. You damn well better bring proof.

And you say that you have no clue if the women is credible or not...how exactly do you expect to find out if they're credible without proof? People can say anything. If a woman came along and said that you pinned them up against a wall and grabbed their crotch against their will I'd bet you $10,000 dollars that you'd be denying it and demanding proof wouldn't you? Yet you won't apply the same thing here? Pfft.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

noonereal said:
His life is at stake?

Come on, don't be hysterical.

You are just making stuff up.... proving a claim is what our law is based on. To that end we have varying levels of reasonable belief.

This has to do with none of that.

You can stammer and shout till you are red in the face but this has nothing to do with legal standards.

This is simply something to consider. Personally I have no clue if the women is credible or not. We will need to hear her speak.
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NOT ONE of Ford's cited "WITNESSES" supports her claims. NOT ONE.


Same as ALL SIX Ramirez named as "present" at her "attack".

ALL SIX REFUTE HER STORY.


And yes, this is an attempt to DERAIL KAVANAUGH's CAREER and LIFE.

It is the definition of the politics of personal destruction.


Stalin taught the left well...
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

braindrain said:
You also realize that if kavanaugh claims under oath that he didn't do it that is evidence to support him as well. So we are right back where we are now
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Yes, that too would be evidence.

But the fact that it would be evidence doesn't change the fact that it is quite obvious the thread starter has no intention of believing Ford regardless of what may or may not play out. It also doesn't change the fact that quite a few people act as if testimony would still be no evidence. And like I said, this is yet another example of something that really is a valid point in the usual context of a criminal trial and thus it would be nice if the people making a big deal of it now actually cared all those others times, but they don't. It's all quite obnoxious.



At any rate, a day or two later and it would seem there are multiple accusers. Avenetti has one, and then there's the one talking about the waving of a penis.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...104e9616c21_story.html?utm_term=.d274b1af8a00

That kind of pattern-of-conduct stuff usually gets in in a criminal trial. So whatever lesser standard (none, in reality) applies to a confirmation hearing, it would generally have more weight if treated objectively.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Felis Leo said:
Well, here is the problem that I have been seeing vis-a-vis this accusation: Most people have rushed to their respective corners either solidly believing the truth of Dr. Ford's allegations, or solidly believing Judge Kavanaugh's denials before any evidence has actually been presented beyond the accusation. What few people have actually done, especially on the left, is articulate a principle by which accusations of sexual impropriety should be believed (or should NOT be believed). Which indicates to me that very few people actually care about sexual assault upon women in a general sense, because by articulating a clear principle, one is then forced to be held to that principle in the future and when it may be their political ox may be gored, lest they be shown to be an intellectually dishonest hypocrite.

I think there are people who genuinely believe Dr. Ford, and do so for completely principled non-partisan reasons, and would believe women under similar circumstances even if it is against people on their political side of the aisle. I think there are people who genuinely believe in Judge Kavanaugh's innocence for completely principled and apolitical non-partisan reasons, and would believe men similarly accused under similar circumstances even if they were not on the same political side of the aisle.

What I am trying to suss out is this: What is the operating principle by which people believe or disbelieve people's accusations of sexual assault? Because in the present case, the majority of people believe or disbelieve Dr. Ford and Judge Kavanaugh on the basis that there is (D) next to the accusers' name and an (R) next to the accused's name. That is not a proper standard by which sexual assault allegations should be believed or disbelieved. That is mere expediency in my opinion.
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Quite often: political bias.

In modern times, it would seem that the number of accusers plays a role. So too does the simple fact that by making a public accusation like this, someone is upending their own life (especially Ford, who didn't want to come forward at first anyway). So does any remorse shown by the accused (if admitting it). Anything that makes a claim more or less likely should matter.

But you're not going to see a single consistent operating principle because everyone is approaching it a bit differently, and for the simple reason that a confirmation vote is a purely political process that doesn't involve any sort of standard of proof.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

VanceMack said:
:lamo

Tell us ALL about it. And then tell us ALL about how YOU always believed Clinton’s accusers and never supported him, or his wife who spent 4 decades attacking her husbands victims.

****, dood...did your keyboard catch fire when you typed that ridiculous ****?

:lamo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You need more emoticons and asterixes if you want to really *get* me. Each time you use one, it's an extra Internets Point.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Mr Person said:
You need more emoticons and asterixes if you want to really *get* me. Each time you use one, it's an extra Internets Point.
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I cant find a squawking parrot one for you so you will just have to settle for :lamo
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Kal'Stang said:
Well? Why should I? She has provided absolutely no proof of her allegations. She's mentioned two other people that were there and both have denied it happened. She says she can't remember the house that it happened at. She can't remember when it happened. No one else has come out against Kavanaugh on this having actually happened or a separate instance of it happening. One woman says that she "heard a rumor" but has denied knowing if anything actually happened. She has repeatedly tried to stall the testimony hearing making ridiculous demands such as not allowing Kavanaugh in the room and demanding that he testify first. Demands which obviously are intended to simply push the date of the hearing back farther and farther.

And then there is the suspicious nature of when and how this was released. Her history was scrubbed. She took a lie detector test in July. Wrote and sent Feinstein a letter in July. Hired lawyers at the beginning of August. Yet...doesn't come out until AFTER the confirmation hearings are done and over with THIS month. Surely even the most partisan of partisans could admit that such looks suspicious.

So...why should I believe Ms. Ford?
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The OP asks the same question that every conservative white guy in the country seems to be asking.....which is the wrong question.

The real question is: Can you give ONE legitimate reason why such a serious allegation (and now others like it) does NOT merit investigation by the FBI (and NOT simply by Republican staffers in the Senate)?

Quite honestly, no one expects Trump supporters to "believe" Dr. (not Ms.) Ford's allegations, because no one expects Trump supporters to exhibit any sense of ethical standards. If Trump and his supporters had any sense of ethics, they would have already called for (and ordered) the FBI to reopen it's background investigation to look into the new allegations.

And the merits of the rest of the comments, above, dubious (at best). Dr. Ford's "history" hasn't been "scrubbed"...she reportedly passed the lie detector examination...and the timing of this incident (with respect to the confirmation hearing itself) is TOTALLY irrelevant. All that matters is that the allegations merit investigation under penalty of perjury (for ALL parties involved), ASAP.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

VanceMack said:
I cant find a squawking parrot one for you so you will just have to settle for :lamo
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Do you have anything to say about the subject of the thread, or is it just going to be the usual whattaboutisms and personal attacks made anonymously on the internet?
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Mr Person said:
Do you have anything to say about the subject of the thread, or is it just going to be the usual whattaboutisms and personal attacks made anonymously on the internet?
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"You need more emoticons and asterixes if you want to really *get* me. Each time you use one, it's an extra Internets Point."

Please....stop making yourself look stupid.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Mr Person said:
There is something particularly odious about someone who never had so much as the slightest inclination to believe someone who accused a politician on the right creating a thread challenging people to explain why they "should" believe the accusation, as if to make a show of being fair and balanced. And as always, the OP pre-emptively accuses everyone who doesn't find suspicious what the OP says is suspicious "partisan".

:roll:


PS: some people need to remind themselves that accusations ARE evidence if the victim is making that accusation under oath. If this woman testifies, the "no evidence" line will disappear.

And the people pretending to care about that? Well, let's just say I don't recall any threads ever being created by them for the purpose of exploring the thousands and thousands of sexual assault and other such cases resolved by victim testimony.


PSS: This isn't a criminal trial, so invoking proof beyond a reasonable doubt is disingenuous. Nevermind that even in a criminal trial, a single eyewitness testimony is sufficient to convict.
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VanceMack said:
:lamo

Tell us ALL about it. And then tell us ALL about how YOU always believed Clinton’s accusers and never supported him, or his wife who spent 4 decades attacking her husbands victims.

****, dood...did your keyboard catch fire when you typed that ridiculous ****?

:lamo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Mr Person said:
You need more emoticons and asterixes if you want to really *get* me. Each time you use one, it's an extra Internets Point.
Click to expand...

VanceMack said:
I cant find a squawking parrot one for you so you will just have to settle for :lamo
Click to expand...

Mr Person said:
Do you have anything to say about the subject of the thread, or is it just going to be the usual whattaboutisms and personal attacks made anonymously on the internet?
Click to expand...

VanceMack said:
"You need more emoticons and asterixes if you want to really *get* me. Each time you use one, it's an extra Internets Point."

Please....stop making yourself look stupid.
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Another brave anonymous insult?

If you're so keen on avoiding the actual topic of the thread, just leave the thread.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Kal'Stang said:
Yes, his life is at stake. And no, I'm not talking about him going to die. You do know that "life" can mean more than JUST being alive right? It can also encompass everything else about a person. Their livelihood. Their reputation. Ever being able to get another job. Everything that makes him HIM is what is at stake right now. Even the accusation of improper sexual conduct towards a man is enough to taint that man in the eyes of many. Doesn't matter whether the accusation was true or not. Doesn't even matter if it is just a rumor. No one looks at the guy the same ever again. Which is why I laugh at anyone that complains of "rape culture".

And you're right, it doesn't have to do with legal standards. But it does have everything to do with doing what is RIGHT. And you don't drag ANYONE's name through the mud unless you have proof of the claim that you are making. Doesn't matter if its joe blow down the street or a SCOTUS nominee. You damn well better bring proof.

And you say that you have no clue if the women is credible or not...how exactly do you expect to find out if they're credible without proof? People can say anything. If a woman came along and said that you pinned them up against a wall and grabbed their crotch against their will I'd bet you $10,000 dollars that you'd be denying it and demanding proof wouldn't you? Yet you won't apply the same thing here? Pfft.
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I'm sure you felt the same about investigations into certain democrats?
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Mr Person said:
Another brave anonymous insult?

If you're so keen on avoiding the actual topic of the thread, just leave the thread.
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https://www.debatepolitics.com/gene...ve-dr-ford-post1069073594.html#post1069073594

https://www.debatepolitics.com/gene...ve-dr-ford-post1069073643.html#post1069073643

See....those are actual links to actual comments on the OP. Then you cam along with your ridiculous hypocritical ****. So I posted how ridiculous and hypocritical your comment was. Because it was TRULY ridiculous and hypocritical. Ive YET to see you actually post anything on the topic, but thats not uncommon for you.

So...

Take a deep breath...and let it go.
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

VanceMack said:
https://www.debatepolitics.com/gene...ve-dr-ford-post1069073594.html#post1069073594

https://www.debatepolitics.com/gene...ve-dr-ford-post1069073643.html#post1069073643

See....those are actual links to actual comments on the OP. Then you cam along with your ridiculous hypocritical ****. So I posted how ridiculous and hypocritical your comment was. Because it was TRULY ridiculous and hypocritical. Ive YET to see you actually post anything on the topic, but thats not uncommon for you.

So...

Take a deep breath...and let it go.
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All the lies, bait, and personal attacks in the world aren't going to change my fact that my post is on topic and is quoted above in full. Nor will it change the fact that you haven't done anything but throw that angry swill at me.

:shrug:
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Mr Person said:
All the lies, bait, and personal attacks in the world aren't going to change my fact that my post is on topic and is quoted above in full. Nor will it change the fact that you haven't done anything but throw that angry swill at me.

:shrug:
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el queso está viejo y mohoso

 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

VanceMack said:


Your obsession is cute...but let it go......
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What does this post have to do with the thread or my post about the thread?
 
Re: Why should I believe Dr. Ford?

Kal'Stang said:
Yes, his life is at stake. And no, I'm not talking about him going to die. You do know that "life" can mean more than JUST being alive right? It can also encompass everything else about a person. Their livelihood. Their reputation. Ever being able to get another job. Everything that makes him HIM is what is at stake right now. Even the accusation of improper sexual conduct towards a man is enough to taint that man in the eyes of many. Doesn't matter whether the accusation was true or not. Doesn't even matter if it is just a rumor. No one looks at the guy the same ever again. Which is why I laugh at anyone that complains of "rape culture".

And you're right, it doesn't have to do with legal standards. But it does have everything to do with doing what is RIGHT. And you don't drag ANYONE's name through the mud unless you have proof of the claim that you are making. Doesn't matter if its joe blow down the street or a SCOTUS nominee. You damn well better bring proof.

And you say that you have no clue if the women is credible or not...how exactly do you expect to find out if they're credible without proof? People can say anything. If a woman came along and said that you pinned them up against a wall and grabbed their crotch against their will I'd bet you $10,000 dollars that you'd be denying it and demanding proof wouldn't you? Yet you won't apply the same thing here? Pfft.
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Thank you for admitting you original position was not completely accurate. Few on these boards will do that.

We find out if she is credible by looking into the matter.
There is certainly no reason to rush to appoint.

I am leaning more toward finding her credible. Why? It seems her life changed after the alleged attack. Her grades went south and she later studied the subject.

But to me, this is not automatically disqualifying anyway. If I supported him, I still would.

I don't support him simply because I am socially liberal and he clearly is not.

And I admit I don't look positively on parent coaches or men have a first kid well over 40 when you are a conservative christian. It's much too hypocritical for me.

But that is off subject.

I am curious to see Ford speak to this. Unfortunately I'll be in meting all day. I hate getting my news from clips.
 
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