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If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cartel?

Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

Yes_Minister said:
What does that entail? Is it fair if Trump says Canada has change its supposed dairy cartel, but does nothing to impede the US' sugar cartel?

Also are you okay with Trump supporters making false claims about Canadian tariffs? Are you fine with members of your side lying on this issue?
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What do you have against the US sugar cartel?
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

Yes_Minister said:
The US has put tariffs on Canadian lumber since the 80s, even though the WTO has sided with Canada 4 times in the past, the US just ignores those decisions, and just slaps new lumber tariffs later and what about the tariffs on Canadian steel, how were those fair?

For all the Trump supporters who say the US has been treated unfairly when it comes to trade, let me ask you, do you honestly think the US never plays dirty when it comes to trade? Does fair trade mean the US has to address its own shady trade practices? Its totally naive to think the US is some poor innocent lamb when it comes trade, the US has played just as dirty as anyone else.

Also if Canada gets rid of its dairy system, what stops the US from dumping cheap, subsidized milk into Canada? The US has been dumping subsidized corn into Mexico for decades, undercutting their farmers.

That's the problem with Trump and his supporters on this issue, the double standard, they only want to tell half the story when it comes to trade, but it takes two to tango.
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The WTO might have made decisions in favor of Canada on the lumber issue, but it doesn't mean that the Canadian provincial governments, weren't giving the edge to their lumber industry by artificially low pricing at auction from government owned lands. Only 6% of Canadian lumber forestry is privately owned, another 4% is is set aside for national parks................... while 90% is under provincial control.


You can't prove that they were not artificially keeping lumber low, and the WTO can't prove that they did.

It's not all about Trump and his supporters as you say.
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

Mycroft said:
What do you have against the US sugar cartel?
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I have a problem with double standards on trade Trump and his supporters have, stop pretenting not to know that, I have told you that several times. Stop faking ignorance.
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

Yes_Minister said:
I have a problem with double standards on trade Trump and his supporters have, stop pretenting not to know that, I have told you that several times. Stop faking ignorance.
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I've already explained how the two issues...dairy/sugar...are unrelated. I've already explained that dairy affects US/Canada trade and that sugar doesn't (except in Canada's favor)

Yet, you continue to beat this hypocrisy drum like a dead horse. You falsely imply that making a deal on dairy would be possible if Trump would only do something about sugar.

This dairy/sugar nonsense of yours is nothing more than a last gasp strawman that is failing to justify your opposition to honest negotiation between two countries.

You did better when you were whining and crying about how Trump is a mean old bully.
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

RetiredUSN said:
The WTO might have made decisions in favor of Canada on the lumber issue, but it doesn't mean that the Canadian provincial governments, weren't giving the edge to their lumber industry by artificially low pricing at auction from government owned lands. Only 6% of Canadian lumber forestry is privately owned, another 4% is is set aside for national parks................... while 90% is under provincial control.


You can't prove that they were not artificially keeping lumber low, and the WTO can't prove that they did.

It's not all about Trump and his supporters as you say.
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The WTO still ruled in Canada's favor, but the US seems to think the rules do not apply them. And what about the subsidies the US uses to keep the price of several products? Why don't Trump and his supporters talk about the US' unfair trade practices or does fair trade mean the rules do not apply to the US?
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

Mycroft said:
I've already explained how the two issues...dairy/sugar...are unrelated. I've already explained that dairy affects US/Canada trade and that sugar doesn't (except in Canada's favor)

Yet, you continue to beat this hypocrisy drum like a dead horse. You falsely imply that making a deal on dairy would be possible if Trump would only do something about sugar.

This dairy/sugar nonsense of yours is nothing more than a last gasp strawman that is failing to justify your opposition to honest negotiation between two countries.

You did better when you were whining and crying about how Trump is a mean old bully.
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Really how are they different, are you saying the US sugar industry is not protected? How much sugar does the US sell into Canada and vice versa and really would Canadian candy producers take that much of a hit if the US stops dumping cheap sugar into the US? Let them deal with out it I say, they can use local Canadian sugar instead.

And how much harm does the Canadian dairy system do the US? Give me raw numbers, not your gut feelings. You keep on saying how unfair the dairy system, but what about the harm caused by milk over production in the US? Seems like you want to blame Canada for a problem the US created for itself.
 
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Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

Yes_Minister said:
Really how are they different, are you saying the US sugar industry is not protected? How much sugar does the US sell into Canada and vice versa and really would Canadian candy producers take that much of a hit if the US stops dumping cheap sugar into the US? Let them deal with out it I say, they can use local Canadian sugar instead.

And how much harm does the Canadian dairy system do the US? Give me raw numbers, not your gut feelings. You keep on saying how unfair the dairy system, but what about the harm caused by milk over production in the US? Seems like you want to blame Canada for a problem the US created for itself.
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You didn't read that link I gave you, did you?

The US doesn't dump cheap sugar into the US. The US allows Canada to buy sugar at a price that's slightly lower than the inflated and controlled government mandated price. Canada can...and does...buy cheaper sugar on the world market.

Don't waste my time, okay?
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

Slingshot Bob said:
View attachment 67240610
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Oh, cool, a meme...hehe :)

So...a bit of background. Tariffs, when used properly and fairly, are designed to protect local interests when entering into trade with other nations. A country needs to protect certain industries in order to avoid nations with bigger (and therefore cheaper and more difficult to compete with) production capability.

Let's take milk. A country needs to be able to produce milk. In order to produce milk in the quantities required for the entire nation's consumption, they need to have a bunch of operational farms in good working order, they need to have mature and healthy cow populations, they need a supply chain, etc. Now, if we start buying all our milk from America, who can produce it cheaper than we can, we will put all our own farmers out of business. Farms go into disrepair, cattle get sold, farmers move on to do other things. Now...a few years later, things go bad in our relationship (imagine that). Now we are beholden to you for our milk, which you can charge us pretty much what you want, because it will take years to rebuild our own milk production infrastructure.

It is for this exact reason that tariffs, when used fairly, are an important part of any agreement. As has been pointed out in this thread, America employs the same tactics, as does every country in trade agreements.

So, the dig your meme attempts to make falls flat...it's like saying "Ha, gotcha! You put an Open sign up when you're Open, UNFAIR!!".

In contrast, the punitive or retaliatory tariffs Trump has hit us with, and threatens to hit us with, have nothing to do with protecting your industries, but rather are being used as a battering ram to break through ours, in order that you guys can make more profit, while putting our ability to be self sufficient at risk. If you take off your MAGA hat for a sec, and just think, I'm quite certain you can see the difference, and why Canadians are so pissed off and showing Trump both ass and middle finger.
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

Yes_Minister said:
The WTO still ruled in Canada's favor, but the US seems to think the rules do not apply them. And what about the subsidies the US uses to keep the price of several products? Why don't Trump and his supporters talk about the US' unfair trade practices or does fair trade mean the rules do not apply to the US?
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You didn't answer to my point. You keep wailing, whining, and crying away about how bad the Americans are, and how bad Trump is.

You can't prove that your provincial government(s) didn't artificially lower pricing at auction.

Either answer me, or keep whining, it doesn't matter to me.
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

RetiredUSN said:
You didn't answer to my point. You keep wailing, whining, and crying away about how bad the Americans are, and how bad Trump is.

You can't prove that your provincial government(s) didn't artificially lower pricing at auction.

Either answer me, or keep whining, it doesn't matter to me.
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36 million people, second largest country in the world. There's nothing "artificial" about the low price of land up here, bud...lol... Supply and demand. From where I sit, you guys are charging too much... :shrug: How's that our problem?
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

Mycroft said:
You didn't read that link I gave you, did you?

The US doesn't dump cheap sugar into the US. The US allows Canada to buy sugar at a price that's slightly lower than the inflated and controlled government mandated price. Canada can...and does...buy cheaper sugar on the world market.

Don't waste my time, okay?
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Okay, you totally ignored my point about subsidized milk in the US causing problems with over production.

And since you seem not understand that I do not care about the sugar cartel, just the massive double standard Trump has in terms of trade, let me ask you this, if Canada removes its dairy system, will the US remove its dairy subsidies or will the US just dump milk into Canada? Does fair trade mean the US has to change its policies too or just Canada has to change?
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

RetiredUSN said:
You didn't answer to my point. You keep wailing, whining, and crying away about how bad the Americans are, and how bad Trump is.

You can't prove that your provincial government(s) didn't artificially lower pricing at auction.

Either answer me, or keep whining, it doesn't matter to me.
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OlNate answered that just now, so answer my question, why do Trump and his supporters give a pass to US subsidies and tariffs when they demand Canada drop its tariffs and subsidies?
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

Yes_Minister said:
Okay, you totally ignored my point about subsidized milk in the US causing problems with over production.

And since you seem not understand that I do not care about thesugar cartel, just the massive double standard Trump has in terms of trade, let me ask you this, if Canada removes its dairy system, will the US remove its dairy subsidies or will the US just dump milk into Canada? Does fair trade mean the US has to change its policies too or just Canada has to change?
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LOL!!

So...you've given up on the "bully" thing. You've given up on the "sugar" thing. Now you are turning to the "dairy" thing.

You should stop while you are ahead and just give that up, too.

I agree that the US government should end all dairy subsidies...but I don't agree with you that this should be a condition for Canada agreeing to end their dairy tariffs. Like the sugar thing, I suspect Trump would agree with me. And like the sugar thing, this is a battle for him to take on at a later time...if ever.
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

Mycroft said:
LOL!!

So...you've given up on the "bully" thing. You've given up on the "sugar" thing. Now you are turning to the "dairy" thing.

You should stop while you are ahead and just give that up, too.

I agree that the US government should end all dairy subsidies...but I don't agree with you that this should be a condition for Canada agreeing to end their dairy tariffs. Like the sugar thing, I suspect Trump would agree with me. And like the sugar thing, this is a battle for him to take on at a later time...if ever.
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No, its all interconnected, I think Trump is a bully who wants to force Canada into a bad deal, that Trump wants Canada to give up its subsidies and tariffs, but has done nothing in terms of massive US subsidies in terms of sugar, dairy and other agriculture products, to the point that I think fair trade is BS, because Canada has to make concessions and the US has to make none.

Its not a fair deal if Canada has to give up its dairy system, but the US can dump dairy into Canada at its leisure. Guess what, that is not fair. Your fair trade never seems fair to Canada. How is a deal fair if one side has to make all the concessions and the other side has to make none? Would you sign such a deal?
 
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Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

Grokmaster said:
Confused? Trump is about MAKING AMERICA GREAT. Not Canada.

Is Canada's non-existent massive "sugar industry" suffering?
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Is America's dairy industry suffering?
Well, yeah, I guess they are if having to dump out over-produced inferior milk products is suffering.
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

OlNate said:
36 million people, second largest country in the world. There's nothing "artificial" about the low price of land up here, bud...lol... Supply and demand. From where I sit, you guys are charging too much... :shrug: How's that our problem?
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Get real...


You are claiming that provincial governments were not low balling to give the lumber companies a edge...................now prove it!
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

Yes_Minister said:
OlNate answered that just now, so answer my question, why do Trump and his supporters give a pass to US subsidies and tariffs when they demand Canada drop its tariffs and subsidies?
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Blah blah blah.....

You still are not answering my original question.

Again......................................................................Can you prove that the provincial governments were not making lumber costs artificially low?
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

RetiredUSN said:
Get real...


You are claiming that provincial governments were not low balling to give the lumber companies a edge...................now prove it!
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Psh...your assertion, you prove that they were. I've told you the reality of what our real estate situation is. Seems pretty common sense... You go ahead and prove your conspiracy theory.

And while you're at it, explain to me how, if Canada was treating you oh so unfairly (boo hoo), how do you account for the fact that America enjoyed a trade surplus with Canada, with goods and services both taken into consideration, when we're 1/10th your population. Whatever we evil Canucks are up to, it's benefiting you. Who else in your top 5 trade partners, all of whom dwarf our population, can you say that about?

Sorry, bud, no matter what way you wanna slice and dice it, we're good trade partners, and up until President Toadstool got into power, so were you. Seems pretty obvious what the problem is here.
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

RetiredUSN said:
Blah blah blah.....

You still are not answering my original question.

Again......................................................................Can you prove that the provincial governments were not making lumber costs artificially low?
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And again OlNate answered your question and he would know more about this then I, do you want to answer mine or admit this fair trade stuff is BS and Trump wants the rules to apply to everyone but the US? Why are Canadian subsidies and tariffs bad and US tariffs and subsudies are okay? Do you support Trump's double standard on trade? Are you going to answer this time or dodge again?

Why did the WTO side Canada 4 times on this file?
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

RetiredUSN said:
Get real...


You are claiming that provincial governments were not low balling to give the lumber companies a edge...................now prove it!
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Actually, the original claim is that the provincial governments are selling stumpage for less than it should be sold for. So that is the claim that would need to be proven.
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

JustHanging said:
Actually, the original claim is that the provincial governments are selling stumpage for less than it should be sold for. So that is the claim that would need to be proven.
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True.............but not many liberals would know the difference between stumpage and wood grade.
 
Re: If Trump wants Canada to get of its "dairy cartel", is the US going to get rid of its sugar cart

Yes_Minister said:
And again OlNate answered your question and he would know more about this then I, do you want to answer mine or admit this fair trade stuff is BS and Trump wants the rules to apply to everyone but the US? Why are Canadian subsidies and tariffs bad and US tariffs and subsudies are okay? Do you support Trump's double standard on trade? Are you going to answer this time or dodge again?

Why did the WTO side Canada 4 times on this file?
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In other words, you and Nate know very little how wood is graded, priced, and when it is released into the market, and when it's held onto. Provincial governments control what woods and and grades of wood is priced.

Your lumber companies suck on the government teat with 94% of all logging land ran by the government.
 
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