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Kavanaugh Debacle: My Opinion.

bearpoker said:
If somebody tried to rape you, I guarantee you'd remember. We tend to remember stuff like that. It helps us avoid similar situations. There's no mention of Dr Ford having been drunk. Just the boys. It's no wonder they don't remember.
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I guarantee that I would have told friends and family and would not wait 30 years (or more) to bring it up.
 
marke said:
Feinstein muddied the water by holding this claim back until the last second. That gives the definite impression that this is nothing more than a last ditch desperate attempt to derail Kavanaugh by immoral, unethical, or totally dishonest means since all other means have failed.
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Remember Merrick Garland.
We won't forget what Mitch McConnell did, not ever...ever...ever.
And you guys crying about unethical is sweet irony.
 
RAMOSS said:
I have not seen a source for this claim. The problem I have with that claim is that exposing that information would be a violation of patient privacy, and against the Hipaa laws. So, I need a good source before I believe that, not random claims in the internet.
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I don't know where exactly it originated.
 
bearpoker said:
I'm willing to bet that most men haven't attempted rape. Of course I've always been a romantic and I have to admit to bias since I like men. I presume you're male so you might know better.
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I have been on the receiving end of an attempted date rape situation. He wasn't taking no for an answer and if he had been a little more determined, I might have been in serious trouble. I fought him off and got away. I do chalk his actions up to youthful indiscretion though. I don't think he was a serious or continuing menace. I wouldn't be afraid to let him be around young women. I wouldn't want what happened that afternoon to ruin his life.

So, I am a little torn. But this is the Supreme Court. A much higher standard should apply to obtaining a position on the court. And I do believe the accuser is being truthful, which means I believe that Kavanaugh is (again) failing to tell the truth in pursuit of a position on a U.S. court. So, even if people such as Orrin Hatch don't think attempted date rape should be disqualifying, Kavanaugh's apparent dishonesty is another strike, and should put him out.


But I don't think it will knock him out, because Republicans are bound and determined to get another Trump justice installed in the Supreme Court before Democrats have a chance to take back the Senate.
 
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TheGoverness said:
Just want to lay out my opinion on the Brett Kavanaugh controversy. So, as most of you already know, the Supreme Court nominee in question has been accused of attempted rape/sexual assault, from an incident way back into his high school days, when he has 16/17. This has brought into question whether or not his confirmation should be delayed.

Some far right-wing publications have taken it upon themselves to try and smear the accuser's reputation, by claiming that Christine is seeking revenge for a 1996 foreclosure case, and her being an "unhinged" liberal professor, both of which have been debunked as false. And of course this stuff was passed around by Trump supporters (I'm almost certain the r/Donald subreddit went wild over that) I think that this kind of tactic is disgusting. Attempting to deliberately smear the accused in question, to attempt to score political points, is just unbelievably disgraceful behavior. I guess it just further speaks to the extremely divisive political climate we live in today. And it just sucks. And then there are some people attempting to dismiss the behavior in question, as if what's described in the accusation is somehow "normal" for a teenager to do. And that is just absolutely ridiculous. Holding down someone on a bed, and forcibly grinding and groping them, is not "normal" in any sense of the word. That is disgusting behavior, and it's even more disgusting to try to wave it off as something inconsequential. There are also some people that are saying that because he was drunk, it's somehow excusable. And that is also just as ridiculous. Just because you are intoxicated, does not mean you are somehow absolved of any responsibility from your actions. And sexual assault is definitely not something that should be given a little slap on the wrist.

However, with that being said, this is entirely dependent on whether the incident in question actually happened or not. Do I believe that this actually happened? I have no idea, and I'm not going to make any determinations about the matter at the moment. All we have right now is a statement. Now, I know that she took a polygraph test from a former FBI Agent and passed, but that's not definitive proof of anything (obviously). I'm remaining on the fence until this situation becomes clearer. Do I think that this might've been politically motivated? Possibly-- from the Democrats (as I can see the political advantage of doing so now), but maybe not from the accuser herself, as she had wrote the letter back in July. Maybe there's something here unseen that hasn't come to light? And people may see the timing as convenient, which I can understand, but you also have to consider that there are a lot of factors that come into play, in terms of why a lot of sexual assault victims do not come out immediately with their stories (denial, fear of repercussions, shame, etc.) All in all, only time will tell how this goes. Hopefully both Brett and Christine can help clarify this incident in question as much as possible, to give us all a better picture of what went down.

That's about it. :peace
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Here's what I see:
An entirely corrupt administration has once again shown it is unfit for anything beyond nursery school and failed to properly vet it's chosen champion of the right.

As usual, rather than own up to a mistake, they smear a person's reputation - gee as if this were the only case. It's SOP Trump, destroy people who get in your way.

Without evidence, as none is needed, it's clear this is another palsy appointment and the man is as guilty as sin. Simply based on the fact that NOTHING Trump has ever done has been honest or in any way or benefit to anyone but him and his cronies.

I would not be surprised if they were all rapists. Nothing would shock me anymore about these bags of ****. Anyone supporting these pukes must hate women.
 
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bearpoker said:
I'm willing to bet that most men haven't attempted rape. Of course I've always been a romantic and I have to admit to bias since I like men. I presume you're male so you might know better.
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I'm willing to bet that Kavanaugh is being wrongly accused, for political reasoning and if a man of his character can be attacked, any man is fair game for the DemocRATS.
 
Lutherf said:
Hmm...I hear a lot about "smearing the accuser". Doesn't that work both ways? Isn't the accusation a smear in its own right? Why is one horrible and the other understandable?
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If there is malicious intent behind it, then sure. But we don't know that for certain. However, there was clear malicious intent on the part of the far-right publications that pushed that fake news, because it was definitively false, and intended to mar Christine's credibility.

The lie detector stuff makes for good copy but it's a total red herring. I can pay to get a lie detector test that "proves" I believe I'm the King of Siam.
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Yeah, that's why I said lie detector tests are not proof of anything.

I'm also going to put this out there. I've been a teenager before. I've been to parties as a teenager. I've seen the drama that happens first hand. It's a VERY rare occasion that anything like the accuser described is one sided. The female is damned near always complicit in the activity up to a point. Heck, I've seen girls ENCOURAGE the activity.
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Unless she's leaving out details, it doesn't sound like the incident in question would be one where she is "complicit".

We don't know the facts in this situation. It's possible that the accuser doesn't even know the facts. What we do know is that this is alleged to have happened 35 years ago and really can't be proved either way. We do know that this is the ONLY accusation of such behavior to come out. We DO know that Kavanaugh has been through something like half a dozen background checks and that nothing like this came up in any of them. Based on all of that, why should we give the accuser the benefit of the doubt here? Why should she be allowed to slander Kavanaugh with impunity?
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An accusation is not necessarily slander. If there is found to be some kind of intent on here part to intentionally discredit Kavanaugh, then I could see it being called such. At the moment, I am not taking any stance on whether it is or isn't, since I know to little to make that kind of determination. I do think all accusations of this nature need to be taken seriously, which is why I see no problem with focusing on it.
 
Acadia said:
I'm willing to bet that Kavanaugh is being wrongly accused, for political reasoning and if a man of his character can be attacked, any man is fair game for the DemocRATS.
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Of course you would think that, you will say anything and defend anything as a trump supporter. You have set your bar so low you can’t help yourself. Sad really but then you support mr. “grabem by the *****” trump.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I guarantee that I would have told friends and family and would not wait 30 years (or more) to bring it up.
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Sadly there were numerous incidents of sexual harassment that I endured as a young woman that I never told anyone about. It was just par for the course. This wasn't news. It was the way things were. C'est la ****ing vie! I'm proud of today's young women who don't sit back and take it. It's time we stood up. I proud of Anita Hill and I'm proud of Dr Ford.
 
Lutherf said:
Hmm...I hear a lot about "smearing the accuser". Doesn't that work both ways? Isn't the accusation a smear in its own right? Why is one horrible and the other understandable?

The lie detector stuff makes for good copy but it's a total red herring. I can pay to get a lie detector test that "proves" I believe I'm the King of Siam.

I'm also going to put this out there. I've been a teenager before. I've been to parties as a teenager. I've seen the drama that happens first hand. It's a VERY rare occasion that anything like the accuser described is one sided. The female is damned near always complicit in the activity up to a point. Heck, I've seen girls ENCOURAGE the activity.

We don't know the facts in this situation. It's possible that the accuser doesn't even know the facts. What we do know is that this is alleged to have happened 35 years ago and really can't be proved either way. We do know that this is the ONLY accusation of such behavior to come out. We DO know that Kavanaugh has been through something like half a dozen background checks and that nothing like this came up in any of them. Based on all of that, why should we give the accuser the benefit of the doubt here? Why should she be allowed to slander Kavanaugh with impunity?

Why should we tolerate this kind of crap and what kind of precedent does it set when we allow this kind of thing to go on?
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Not if its true like here.

In this case its cowardice.
 
bearpoker said:
I'm willing to bet that most men haven't attempted rape. Of course I've always been a romantic and I have to admit to bias since I like men. I presume you're male so you might know better.
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Doesnt matter what they have done though

All they have to have is a lady come out of their past with a me too story now....

No evidence....no proof....no basis of fact at all, but it doesn’t matter....the public and the news is in a hanging mood

Ought to be the old west....all we need is a tree and a rope
 
Fearandloathing said:
Here's what I see:
An entirely corrupt administration has once again shown it is unfit for anything beyond nursery school and failed to properly vet it's chosen champion of the right.

As usual, rather than own up to a mistake, they smear a person's reputation - gee as if this were the only case. It's SOP Trump, destroy people who get in your way.

Without evidence, as none is needed, it's clear this is another palsy appointment and the man is as guilty as sin. Simply based on the fact that NOTHING Trump has ever done has been honest or in any way or benefit to anyone but him and his cronies.

I would not be surprised if they were all rapists. Nothing would shock me anymore about these bags of ****. Anyone supporting these pukes must hate women.
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I don't want this administration anywhere near a nursery school.
 
bearpoker said:
If somebody tried to rape you, I guarantee you'd remember. We tend to remember stuff like that. It helps us avoid similar situations. There's no mention of Dr Ford having been drunk. Just the boys. It's no wonder they don't remember.
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In her own account in the Washpo article she said she had been drinking also
 
Acadia said:
And any man can have his life ruined at any moment, even when a woman makes allegations which got back 30 years.
Most men, all of whom were teens once, should be very, very afraid.
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So far, it only seems to be powerful men that abuse their power.
 
TheGoverness said:
If there is malicious intent behind it, then sure. But we don't know that for certain. However, there was clear malicious intent on the part of the far-right publications that pushed that fake news, because it was definitively false, and intended to mar Christine's credibility.



Yeah, that's why I said lie detector tests are not proof of anything.



Unless she's leaving out details, it doesn't sound like the incident in question would be one where she is "complicit".



An accusation is not necessarily slander. If there is found to be some kind of intent on here part to intentionally discredit Kavanaugh, then I could see it being called such. At the moment, I am not taking any stance on whether it is or isn't, since I know to little to make that kind of determination. I do think all accusations of this nature need to be taken seriously, which is why I see no problem with focusing on it.
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No doubt the accusation should be heard. But it should be heard by people charged with investigating such things. It should not be tried in the public realm. To bring such a charge in such a public way is purely vindictive...or political.
 
gdgyva said:
Doesnt matter what they have done though

All they have to have is a lady come out of their past with a me too story now....

No evidence....no proof....no basis of fact at all, but it doesn’t matter....the public and the news is in a hanging mood

Ought to be the old west....all we need is a tree and a rope
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Paybacks a bitch.
 
bearpoker said:
Paybacks a bitch.
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And that is exactly why she won’t get a hearing, and the me too movement is dead before it had a chance to start

It was a great idea...and had promise

But ruining a mans life....for spite? For payback?
 
gdgyva said:
In her own account in the Washpo article she said she had been drinking also
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So it was ok to assault her. Good to know if I find a drunk guy attractive and want to rape him.
 
bearpoker said:
If somebody tried to rape you, I guarantee you'd remember. We tend to remember stuff like that. It helps us avoid similar situations. There's no mention of Dr Ford having been drunk. Just the boys. It's no wonder they don't remember.
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1. She admits she was drinking, though she says it was "one beer".

2. That appears to be the only detail she recalls, as she cannot recall when the event occurred, where the event occurred, nor the circumstances of the event occurring, and cannot - if we take the therapists notes as evidence - remember exactly who was involved, or how many of them there were.

That doesn't mean nothing happened, and it certainly doesn't excuse anything that did happen if it did, but her memory doesn't appear to have held up that well over the past three and a half decades.
 
bearpoker said:
Sadly there were numerous incidents of sexual harassment that I endured as a young woman that I never told anyone about. It was just par for the course. This wasn't news. It was the way things were. C'est la ****ing vie! I'm proud of today's young women who don't sit back and take it. It's time we stood up. I proud of Anita Hill and I'm proud of Dr Ford.
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You seem to be treating this as a team sport.

If she says it, it's so. Go team liberal women!

 
gdgyva said:
And that is exactly why she won’t get a hearing, and the me too movement is dead before it had a chance to start

It was a great idea...and had promise

But ruining a mans life....for spite? For payback?
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You're assuming that the story's not true. What if it is? Is it ok for a foolish, drunk 17 year old to sexually assault a young girl? What about her life?
 
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gdgyva said:
Doesnt matter what they have done though

All they have to have is a lady come out of their past with a me too story now....

No evidence....no proof....no basis of fact at all, but it doesn’t matter....the public and the news is in a hanging mood

Ought to be the old west....all we need is a tree and a rope
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Yeah, it's called the pendulum swing and it's headed on an outward arc of travel. Unfair, maybe, but it's the result of having decades of abuse swept under the carpet. If American men had been paying attention and appropriately responding to past complaints then, yes, I would say this should not be happening.

But American men of power have not listened, they have not responded, they just found a better way to keep the **** quite. Will this mean that some almost "innocent" men go down? Probably. Is that bad?

Nope.

It's payback time gents, anybody who didn't quit when they were asked to has their ass in a wringer for the rest of their lives. Just when you think it's OK, some woman is going to step out of the shadows and 'boom', the dude is a footnote in history.

We all should have been listening a lot more closely and a lot sooner.

Don't blame the women, blame the ****-off rapists who thought they could get away with it.
 
Moot said:
So far, it only seems to be powerful men that abuse their power.
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Hardly, Diane Feinstein abused her power for sure;.
 
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