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Distributions of wealth in this country

I'm done with you until you bring something to the conversation or something that I haven't already answered. Your a waste of time, you have nothing so your trying to "y but" with absolutely nothing other then trying to argue whats put in front of you. I would probable go on if your ya buts were a little more interesting.

ttwtt laid waste to the hyper-partisan fallacy with which you started this thread. That is the only real contribution anyone could possibly make. Your argument being decimated does not mean that the other person "isn't contributing." They are, it's just that you started with made-up garbage.
 
I'm done with you until you bring something to the conversation or something that I haven't already answered. Your a waste of time, you have nothing so your trying to "y but" with absolutely nothing other then trying to argue whats put in front of you. I would probable go on if your ya buts were a little more interesting.

The entire purpose of this site is to argue what is put in front of us. Get real or get gone.
 
ttwtt is contributing by correcting your hyper-partisan fallacies. The topic is premised on a partisan fallacy, and ttwtt corrected it for you. That's a valuable contribution to your thread.

Any time you have an opportunity to learn something, it's not a waste of your time. If you refuse to acknowledge it, then it is, but that's no one else's fault.

Thank you for trying, yet I fear that it will change nothing. You can lead a horse to water but...
 
Thank you for trying, yet I fear that it will change nothing. You can lead a horse to water but...

Every once in a while I'm in the mood to pick on a blind partisan extremist who is spouting off. I do it to those on the conservative side too, if they're being dolts.
 
What put supply side economics in the trash can, nothing will change until this country moves to demand side economics or just about any economic direction other then supply side. . No president can do anything under the supply side lie. it will always go to the top with it. The only presidents that have addressed anything involved with this have been Democrat, always to the opposition of your hate group. Lets do it this way tell us why 2/3 of this country have received none of the massive increase of wealth in this country, what the wealthy got smarter or worked harder , tell us how this happened . Keep in mind there has never been a time in history that more profits existed in American corporation. IN fact a massive increase over the past. but none to 2/3 of the country. Crickets/
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DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ A CHART
Maybe it's you that doesn't understand how to read your own chart. First off, what you need to grasp is that many, if not most of the people in those percentiles in 1950 are NOT in the same percentile in 2010. Right after WW II returning vets had the chance to attend college on the GI Bill and used it to gain the knowledge and skills to make themselves valuable as our economy transitioned from a war footing to a rebuild the world and growth in the USA. And they moved up and enjoyed income growth as your chart shows. As they did OTHERS took those lower paid jobs and started THEIR progress. Those in the lower percentages tend to be young and inexperienced (not exclusively, off course) and many followed their predecessors up the ladder. I certainly don't make the miniscule wage I made on my first job anymore. Nor do most people I know who made the effort to accumulate the knowledge and skills today's employers pay a premium for.
 
I am all for more people getting more wealth, I really am. I do think the rich have too much money. However I do not support taking money from one person to give it to another. If you want to see wealth distributed more evenly then stop giving money to the uber wealthy. The poor and middle class of this country line up in droves to give money freely to those at the top.

The problem is not that. It's this: the people at the top get first dibs on the money coming in. So guess who they are going to pay first? When you have a large company with a lot of workers, who do you think decides and controls how the profits get distributed? If the company makes more money , do you think there is going to be a huge incentive to distribute that extra wealth to the workers who are actually doing the work on the factory floor? No. The CEO and the shareholders and the board just divvy it up amongst themselves. I bet if you gave first dibs on how to distribute the profits to the workers and let them decide how the increasing profits were going to get divvied up, it would be far less disparity. Of course, the workers would still have incentive to pay for a good, competent CEO to run the place. You would want to generously compensate shareholders so they continue to invest. Otherwise, the competitors would destroy the company and they would all be out of a job. But I am pretty sure you would no longer see this ridiculous level of stagnation of income between the working class and the shareholders/CEOs, and such ridiculous disparities in income between workers and management, all go away.

It's all about who gets their hands on the money first.
 
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You meet [mean] that capitalism works?

...until it fails because we constantly push capitalism into a state of uncontrolled anarchy.

- The government refused to bail out banks in 1929, which ushered in the Great Depression.

- The government refused to bail out Lehman Brothers in 2008, which led to a panic, which resulted in lending banks around the world to freeze at the start of the Great Recession. China actually went on to prop up the global economy, making itself more powerful.


At the center is always de-regulated banks that celebrate their loose-cannon investments to make quick cash in the moment. The Roaring Twenties led to the 1929 crash and banks created the housing bubble, which burst in 2008.

Capitalism does most definitely work. But we seem to have difficulty understanding that a bank, like a dog, needs a leash. Just this last June Trump began the processes to deregulate the banks. Cuz...capitalism!
 
The problem is not that. It's this: the people at the top get first dibs on the money coming in. So guess who they are going to pay first? When you have a large company with a lot of workers, who do you think decides and controls how the profits get distributed? If the company makes more money , do you think there is going to be a huge incentive to distribute that extra wealth to the workers who are actually doing the work on the factory floor? No. The CEO and the shareholders and the board just divvy it up amongst themselves. I bet if you gave first dibs on how to distribute the profits to the workers and let them decide how the increasing profits were going to get divvied up, it would be far less disparity. Of course, the workers would still have incentive to pay for a good, competent CEO to run the place. You would want to generously compensate shareholders so they continue to invest. Otherwise, the competitors would destroy the company and they would all be out of a job. But I am pretty sure you would no longer see this ridiculous level of stagnation of income among the working class, and such ridiculous disparities in income between workers and management, all go away.

It's all about who gets their hands on the money first.

You're merely complaining that ordinary workers are not compensated in equity. Have you ever considered the problems and impracticalities there could be with the attempt to do this? I'm sure there are examples (typically small companies that compensate their employees well to begin with), but generally speaking, with large companies, this would not work. Have you ever bothered to think about this, or do you just feel like whining about it without thinking about it? What could be the impracticalities and/or pitfalls to a large corporation, let's say, trying to pay all its employees in equity?

Hint: What would happen, for example, if a company sustained a significant loss in a year? How would those workers be paid for their work?
 
:) When you lower your cost of living, yeah, you're generally improving your standard of living. When I can buy the same coffee at walmart for half or two thirds the price, I can then take that excess money and spend it on something else, or save and investment.

When people choose to shop at large companies, they are engaging in mutually beneficial trade. What you are asking them to do is to give up that which benefits them.

Not at all. I am saying that people get to decide. That is the nature of a free market. They have a couple choices. 1. Choose to shop at a large nationwide brand and save money and not care how they keep costs down or 2. Shop locally and give that money to their friends and neighbors.

I am not asking them to do anything other than make that choice and stop bitching about the consequences of that choice. It makes no sense for everyone to line up and hand over all their extra cash to walmart (as an example) and then wonder why walmart has so much money. It makes no sense for people to choose everyday to ignore the mom and pop shops in their neighborhood and then be mad that they can't stay open.
 
Hear we go, the brain dead idea that there is socialism anywhere in this country, what a joke. When people say this they are simply saying that they have no idea what socialism is at all. , just there own definition of it . That's only done by weak minds.

I didn't say there was. Maybe only weak minds accuse people of saying something they didn't say.
 
Not at all. I am saying that people get to decide. That is the nature of a free market. They have a couple choices. 1. Choose to shop at a large nationwide brand and save money and not care how they keep costs down or 2. Shop locally and give that money to their friends and neighbors.

.... our friends and neighbors also work at for the local outposts of the national brand. Who staffs them in your area? People flown in from out of town every day, and home every night?

I am not asking them to do anything other than make that choice and stop bitching about the consequences of that choice. It makes no sense for everyone to line up and hand over all their extra cash to walmart (as an example) and then wonder why walmart has so much money. It makes no sense for people to choose everyday to ignore the mom and pop shops in their neighborhood and then be mad that they can't stay open.

That, certainly, is true. But it also comes from rational decisions. If the Mom and Pop cannot help their clients achieve a higher standard of living the way the larger store can.... then it's not wrong for folks to choose a higher standard of living even if that means the aesthetic of the mom-and-pop suffers.
 
The problem is not that. It's this: the people at the top get first dibs on the money coming in. So guess who they are going to pay first? When you have a large company with a lot of workers, who do you think decides and controls how the profits get distributed? If the company makes more money , do you think there is going to be a huge incentive to distribute that extra wealth to the workers who are actually doing the work on the factory floor? No. The CEO and the shareholders and the board just divvy it up amongst themselves. I bet if you gave first dibs on how to distribute the profits to the workers and let them decide how the increasing profits were going to get divvied up, it would be far less disparity. Of course, the workers would still have incentive to pay for a good, competent CEO to run the place. You would want to generously compensate shareholders so they continue to invest. Otherwise, the competitors would destroy the company and they would all be out of a job. But I am pretty sure you would no longer see this ridiculous level of stagnation of income between the working class and the shareholders/CEOs, and such ridiculous disparities in income between workers and management, all go away.

It's all about who gets their hands on the money first.

I get that. However the people below are paid a salary. They agree to work for that salary. It isn't like they are being misled. They knowingly agree to work for X amount. But again the choice here is up to people. People choose to work for this company. People choose to use their goods/services. I don't care what people say - actions are what matters. I keep using walmart so I will continue. If a person is yelling that walmart doesn't pay enough, doesn't treat employees well, gets goods from overseas ect and then says that they strongly support the mom and pop shop that pays their employees well and only sells goods made in the US. They say all of these things. They are disgusted. They post cute pictures and endearing memes all over facebook. They hit like on all kinds of things.

Then the go and give all their extra money to walmart and don't spend a dime locally then they don't really mean those things. If a person is supporting walmart (or insert any other large corporation) financially then they obviously don't really care about any of those things. And those things drive the behavior of businesses. Not your words - your actions.
 
.... our friends and neighbors also work at for the local outposts of the national brand. Who staffs them in your area? People flown in from out of town every day, and home every night?



That, certainly, is true. But it also comes from rational decisions. If the Mom and Pop cannot help their clients achieve a higher standard of living the way the larger store can.... then it's not wrong for folks to choose a higher standard of living even if that means the aesthetic of the mom-and-pop suffers.

Right or wrong is up to the individual. I am not saying it is wrong. Other people are saying it is wrong. You may feel it is wrong. Whatever the case is. Again you are arguing a point I am not making. My point is simple. I'll lay it out simply for you.

1. People are complaining that the rich have too much money.
2. People are complaining that small stores are closing.
3. People are complaining that CEOs make too much money.
4. People are complaining that manufacturing is leaving.
5. People are complaining these big stores/corporations don't pay enough.
6. People then financially support these same companies.

So my point is simply if people don't like the business practices of these companies then don't support them financially.
If saving money is more important than business practices then keep shopping there.

But you can't have it both ways. You cannot get mom and pop stores, with high paying wages, and made in america for the same price as made it China and sold by some kid at minimum wage. It is one or the other.
 
The problem is not that. It's this: the people at the top get first dibs on the money coming in. So guess who they are going to pay first? When you have a large company with a lot of workers, who do you think decides and controls how the profits get distributed? If the company makes more money , do you think there is going to be a huge incentive to distribute that extra wealth to the workers who are actually doing the work on the factory floor? No. The CEO and the shareholders and the board just divvy it up amongst themselves. I bet if you gave first dibs on how to distribute the profits to the workers and let them decide how the increasing profits were going to get divvied up, it would be far less disparity. Of course, the workers would still have incentive to pay for a good, competent CEO to run the place. You would want to generously compensate shareholders so they continue to invest. Otherwise, the competitors would destroy the company and they would all be out of a job. But I am pretty sure you would no longer see this ridiculous level of stagnation of income between the working class and the shareholders/CEOs, and such ridiculous disparities in income between workers and management, all go away.

It's all about who gets their hands on the money first.

I don't think people who start griping about this have really ever bothered to understand the way ownership/investment actually works. I think what people want is for workers to enjoy all of the profits when there is a profit, but incur none of the losses if there is not a profit. If I buy $1 million worth of shares of a company, and that company's stock drops 20% in a year, I effectively was paid negative $200,000 by the company that year in return for my $1 million investment in them.

Ordinary employees cannot take that kind of risk associated with ownership of a company as compensation for their work. They need to know they will be paid regularly and predictably so that they can pay their household bills. They cannot tolerate any loss, even if temporary. If paid in equity they would have to liquidate it continuously so they could pay their household bills. If the company had a rough quarter, they could be financially devastated, some would be quitting their jobs, others would be protesting demanding the CEO be fired, which would result in even more short-term profit fixation among company leadership than there already is, because workers' actual lives depend on the company's uninterrupted profit. Ordinary workers need to pay their bills and be guaranteed the wage they agreed to when they were hired, not be paid under variable terms.

It is childish fantasy to think employees should be rewarded for company gains/profits but face no financial risk of loss. Ordinary employees cannot take risks like this with their compensation. They can't agree to wages that might be as high as the equivalent of $40 an hour or as low as $7.25 an hour, depending on how the company does. They won't work for that kind of unpredictability, and investors won't invest if the upside profit potential is not worth the downside risk. So most companies trying to do this would fail to entice workers OR investors to jump on board, because the risk would outweigh the potential reward on both sides of the equation.
 
Hmm... if capitalism died in 1981 then how are we (still?) the greatest, most powerful, richest country in the world?

The U.S. is the 12th richest country in the world. As for the other 2, they are each subjective, and you'd need to define your criteria.
 
The U.S. is the 12th richest country in the world. As for the other 2, they are each subjective, and you'd need to define your criteria.

I was simply repeating the OP claimed assertions.
 
The problem is not that. It's this: the people at the top get first dibs on the money coming in. So guess who they are going to pay first? When you have a large company with a lot of workers, who do you think decides and controls how the profits get distributed? If the company makes more money , do you think there is going to be a huge incentive to distribute that extra wealth to the workers who are actually doing the work on the factory floor? No. The CEO and the shareholders and the board just divvy it up amongst themselves. I bet if you gave first dibs on how to distribute the profits to the workers and let them decide how the increasing profits were going to get divvied up, it would be far less disparity. Of course, the workers would still have incentive to pay for a good, competent CEO to run the place. You would want to generously compensate shareholders so they continue to invest. Otherwise, the competitors would destroy the company and they would all be out of a job. But I am pretty sure you would no longer see this ridiculous level of stagnation of income between the working class and the shareholders/CEOs, and such ridiculous disparities in income between workers and management, all go away.

It's all about who gets their hands on the money first.

Let's keep going with this.

Did you know that if workers were to be paid in equity like the big dogs are, that this pay would likely be in the form of an option, which is the ability to purchase shares of stock in the company at a discounted price? Did you also know that options typically can't be liquidated for cash until after a predetermined vesting period, typically something like three or four years? So if you quit or are fired within a probationary period of time (6 months or a year, typically), you're entitled to nothing. Imagine the wrongful termination lawsuits if ordinary workers got fired and lost the ability to exercise their option. People especially at lower ends of the wage spectrum also like to job-hop, look for something better or start climbing the ladder. People with options offers typically feel like they can't or shouldn't do this (sometimes called "golden handcuffs") because they're holding out in hopes of a big pay day at the end of a vesting period.

You'd also have fluctuations in the workforce potentially diluting any given employee's payday. If more workers are needed and they're to be promised options too, then all of that potential pay could be all over the map depending on what develops for the company over the next 2-4 years. Even really smart people sometimes have an extremely difficult time accurately valuing what their stock options are worth. Especially if it's a private company, you aren't even able to know where your shares are priced until the next round of equity financing, the number of shares outstanding, and your pecking order of your shares relative to the others on the company's balance sheet.

Look at what moderate-to-highly paid employees who are offered stock options say (Should You Take A Bigger Salary Or Employee Stock Options? - Forbes - by William Baldwin) about trying to valuate their offer and negotiate their position. "It's a black hole," they say in this linked article (which I also paraphrase/borderline plagiarize in the above paragraphs). They stick around in hopes it will pay off big. In some cases it does. In other cases it doesn't, or at least not to the degree some hoped. Some businesses tank and the profits/promises disappear.

Now try to translate all that to, say, oh I dunno, a 22-year old who accepts a job as a customer service representative for The Home Depot's online ordering system, earning $12.50 per hour. How are you going to design an equity pay package for this type of worker? Let alone for the thousands, tens of thousands, or in some cases hundreds of thousands or more employees that large companies have?

It's delusional fantasy to go any further with this petulant clamor for front line employees to be paid from profit/equity. It just doesn't even make sense. You might as well just call for the abolition of private property. Because it's loony tunes.
 
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Good God, you poor people are as blind as a bat, I can tax all your wages away or tax none of your wages . So sorry the someone is actually a something , They are called taxes. Silly people
Again...you are goofy if you believe the poor peoples pennies are being taxed and taken from them and given to the rich. Goofy...and not a little bit dishonest.
 
You can't give all the new wealth of a country to just a few golden few. Capitalism dies when the incentive of the possibility to get ahead is taken away. Which it has been the case since 1981. I would like the greatest most powerful richest country in the world, to stay capitalistic and a Republic. Not caring about the fact that the golden few get it all and in no way deserve it all is selling out my country.

A recent college degree allowed me to change jobs for a 50% increase in salary and a dramatic increase in job satisfaction. I think a lot of success comes from within. With today's media, people are convinced more and more to look to other people for satisfaction.

Bill Gates making more or less money has nothing to do with my success.
 
You're merely complaining that ordinary workers are not compensated in equity. Have you ever considered the problems and impracticalities there could be with the attempt to do this? I'm sure there are examples (typically small companies that compensate their employees well to begin with), but generally speaking, with large companies, this would not work. Have you ever bothered to think about this, or do you just feel like whining about it without thinking about it? What could be the impracticalities and/or pitfalls to a large corporation, let's say, trying to pay all its employees in equity?

Hint: What would happen, for example, if a company sustained a significant loss in a year? How would those workers be paid for their work?

The workers would have to be involved in that decision, wouldn’t they?
 
The workers would have to be involved in that decision, wouldn’t they?

The decision on how to divvy up the negative money? LOL. Sure. "Involve" them. No one's going to agree or even remain civil. Read my 2nd and 3rd posts in response to your previous one. I go into greater depth about how outlandishly silly the notion of equity compensation for middle-and-lower income levels becomes.
 
Maybe it's you that doesn't understand how to read your own chart. First off, what you need to grasp is that many, if not most of the people in those percentiles in 1950 are NOT in the same percentile in 2010. Right after WW II returning vets had the chance to attend college on the GI Bill and used it to gain the knowledge and skills to make themselves valuable as our economy transitioned from a war footing to a rebuild the world and growth in the USA. And they moved up and enjoyed income growth as your chart shows. As they did OTHERS took those lower paid jobs and started THEIR progress. Those in the lower percentages tend to be young and inexperienced (not exclusively, off course) and many followed their predecessors up the ladder. I certainly don't make the miniscule wage I made on my first job anymore. Nor do most people I know who made the effort to accumulate the knowledge and skills today's employers pay a premium for.
Good God the hate party members are total airheads.
 
A recent college degree allowed me to change jobs for a 50% increase in salary and a dramatic increase in job satisfaction. I think a lot of success comes from within. With today's media, people are convinced more and more to look to other people for satisfaction.

Bill Gates making more or less money has nothing to do with my success.
anyone have a clue what this means,
 
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