The American Demagogue

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue

Has the election of Trump made America into a Demagogue State? I have to say yes, because he told us sweet words of gifts he would give to the American people, lower taxes, a smaller government, build the war, end of having health care. The 2016 election boils down to a candy bar or a tooth brush.

At the most, demagogue-lite. And, even that's stretching it.

Trump doesn't fit the "violence" scenario used by true demagogues.

He is a little mouthy, a little arrogant, a little bull-headed, but he listens and he backs down, which is a trait anathema to a true demagogue.

Atheist 2020 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue

Has the election of Trump made America into a Demagogue State? I have to say yes, because he told us sweet words of gifts he would give to the American people, lower taxes, a smaller government, build the war, end of having health care. The 2016 election boils down to a candy bar or a tooth brush.

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2016 was a unique election where a majority of Americans didn't one or the other to become president. Around 60% of Americans disliked Clinton and around the same amount disliked Trump. So if we elected an demagogue it solely because of the choices offered two years ago. We may have or we may have not. Time will tell.

HowardBThiname said:

Trump doesn't fit the "violence" scenario used by true demagogues.

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He's taken 3000 children away from their mothers, locked them in cages, and injected them with drugs to keep them from crying. He's openly praised numerous "strong" leaders who are known to be murderous. If you don't think he's just waiting for an opportunity to use nuclear weapons you're insanely naive.

MrWonka said:

He's taken 3000 children away from their mothers, locked them in cages, and injected them with drugs to keep them from crying. He's openly praised numerous "strong" leaders who are known to be murderous. If you don't think he's just waiting for an opportunity to use nuclear weapons you're insanely naive.

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Trump was out snatching 3000 children away from their moms who took them on a criminal activity and giving them drugs? Not 2999? or 3001?

I heard he made a cow's milk go sour too...

Perotista said:

2016 was a unique election where a majority of Americans didn't one or the other to become president.

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Hillary Clinton won the popular vote.

Perotista said:

So if we elected an demagogue it solely because of the choices offered two years ago. We may have or we may have not. Time will tell.

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No, we definitely did. A demagogue isn't defined by their actions once in power they're defined by how they obtain power, and how they sway people to their side of the argument.

dem·a·gogue
ˈdeməˌɡäɡ/Submit
noun
a political leader who seeks support by appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument.

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There is nothing rational about any of Trump's policies they are simply appeals to popular desires and prejudices. Anybody who knows anything about walls or immigration could tell you that building a wall on our Mexican border is ****ing stupid. It's an appeal to racism. It's an appeal to nationalism, but there's no rational basis for thinking it makes sense. None whatsoever.

His attacks on kneeling NFL players are anything but rational. They are an attempt to use patriotism to win support nothing more. Trump is a textbook demagogue. That is a fact.

MrMike said:

Trump was out snatching 3000 children away from their moms who took them on a criminal activity and giving them drugs? Not 2999? or 3001?

I heard he made a cow's milk go sour too...

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And this is the sick and twisted mindset of those who support him. Acting like the imprisonment of Latino children for the trivial "crimes" of their parents is just no big deal. This is the definition of evil.

MrWonka said:

And this is the sick and twisted mindset of those who support him. Acting like the imprisonment of Latino children for the trivial "crimes" of their parents is just no big deal. This is the definition of evil.

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Hmmm... I never mentioned race. Weird you'd do that.

However, since you did that, I must note that it is a Latino (La Raza guy) running the commercial operation that is making the big $$$$$ off of these kids in his government contracted holding centers. This is the same guy that was running them during the Obama tenure (which I must note didn't suffer from the new faux outrage of Liberals over the situation).

Now, back to the issue. Parents bringing their kids on a criminal enterprise and wondering why they are all in trouble? Sorry, I don't feel sorry for them.

Perotista said:

2016 was a unique election where a majority of Americans didn't one or the other to become president. Around 60% of Americans disliked Clinton and around the same amount disliked Trump. So if we elected an demagogue it solely because of the choices offered two years ago. We may have or we may have not. Time will tell.

Click to expand...

MrWonka said:

He's taken 3000 children away from their mothers, locked them in cages, and injected them with drugs to keep them from crying. He's openly praised numerous "strong" leaders who are known to be murderous. If you don't think he's just waiting for an opportunity to use nuclear weapons you're insanely naive.

Click to expand...

MrWonka said:

Hillary Clinton won the popular vote.



There is nothing rational about any of Trump's policies they are simply appeals to popular desires and prejudices. Anybody who knows anything about walls or immigration could tell you that building a wall on our Mexican border is ****ing stupid. It's an appeal to racism. It's an appeal to nationalism, but there's no rational basis for thinking it makes sense. None whatsoever.

His attacks on kneeling NFL players are anything but rational. They are an attempt to use patriotism to win support nothing more. Trump is a textbook demagogue. That is a fact.

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I was going to make a thread, but I thought I would just vent in here.

*disclaimer* ^^^

The nation was tired of typical politics. That is why Trump got in.

I agree with the first quoted point, 60% people hated HRC, 60% hated Trump, I think everyone just didnt like either choice, BUT ended up with the lesser of 2 evils period.


The next quote is exactly where the politics have lowered them selves. NO facts just emotion and no actual policies that will solve the points.

1) 3000 children being taken away, GTFO..... these people broke the law, do the research Its mixed percentages of scenarios, from un accompanied children, to Teens, to unverifed adults with children, I think the basic study said that LESS than 10% were 5 years and younger.... dont conflate FACTS and truths.

2) HRC won the popular vote? We did the math on this.... Majority of popular votes won was from 1 state CA, 4 million, she won actual nation popular vote by 2.8 net, meaning she LOSS the remainder net of the nation 1.2 million elsewhere. Popular in 1 state my a massive majority, NOT popular by NATION that is why Trump won the electorate.

And you can say all the rest Wonka.



Here is my point and I apologize wonka I dont intend to single you out. But we are going to a downward spiral. Meaning that this will become a tit for tat and it will never get better only worse. Dems Now BLOCK everything trump, Repeal, Cavannagh, Wall, Taxes, VA head etc etc etc the list goes on, When Trump is gone in 2-6 years, and a potential Dem has a chance, what do you think the Republicans will do.

The exact same thing. THIS BENEFITS NO ONE ANY NOT THE NATION in the slightest.

Recently the news talks about the Manafort case, WHO GIVES A RATS Behind. They are charging him with white collar crimes.... likely LOTS of other people have done, does it warrant political exposure? Only because of Trump.


I may not like the guy may NOT agree with all his policies but MANY of them i do. THAT is my only focus fix the actual issue that we as citizens face..... but instead we have pissing contest and rallies to just discredit people rather then trying to discredit or WORK together on policies to make it better for our nation.

Is it Trumps fault? Well Trump being TRUMP is a fault, but he is NOT doing anything unconstitutional. Leader of the Executive branch, enforces laws and proposes new laws to congress. Commander in Chief, protecting our nation.... From foreign threats and Illegal entry into our nation.


If people Cannot fathom that, they have not read the basics and understood the basic of what the president does....and THAT is why we have failed.....its only going to get worse.....

MrWonka said:

And this is the sick and twisted mindset of those who support him. Acting like the imprisonment of Latino children for the trivial "crimes" of their parents is just no big deal. This is the definition of evil.

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Don't forget that this society is one that happily condones torture. We are not nearly as civilized as we think we are. This country leads the world in per capita rate of imprisonment for decades. We are not nearly as civilized as we would like to think.

Exactice said:

I was going to make a thread, but I thought I would just vent in here.

*disclaimer* ^^^

The nation was tired of typical politics. That is why Trump got in.

I agree with the first quoted point, 60% people hated HRC, 60% hated Trump, I think everyone just didnt like either choice, BUT ended up with the lesser of 2 evils period.


The next quote is exactly where the politics have lowered them selves. NO facts just emotion and no actual policies that will solve the points.

1) 3000 children being taken away, GTFO..... these people broke the law, do the research Its mixed percentages of scenarios, from un accompanied children, to Teens, to unverifed adults with children, I think the basic study said that LESS than 10% were 5 years and younger.... dont conflate FACTS and truths.

2) HRC won the popular vote? We did the math on this.... Majority of popular votes won was from 1 state CA, 4 million, she won actual nation popular vote by 2.8 net, meaning she LOSS the remainder net of the nation 1.2 million elsewhere. Popular in 1 state my a massive majority, NOT popular by NATION that is why Trump won the electorate.

And you can say all the rest Wonka.



Here is my point and I apologize wonka I dont intend to single you out. But we are going to a downward spiral. Meaning that this will become a tit for tat and it will never get better only worse. Dems Now BLOCK everything trump, Repeal, Cavannagh, Wall, Taxes, VA head etc etc etc the list goes on, When Trump is gone in 2-6 years, and a potential Dem has a chance, what do you think the Republicans will do.

The exact same thing. THIS BENEFITS NO ONE ANY NOT THE NATION in the slightest.

Recently the news talks about the Manafort case, WHO GIVES A RATS Behind. They are charging him with white collar crimes.... likely LOTS of other people have done, does it warrant political exposure? Only because of Trump.


I may not like the guy may NOT agree with all his policies but MANY of them i do. THAT is my only focus fix the actual issue that we as citizens face..... but instead we have pissing contest and rallies to just discredit people rather then trying to discredit or WORK together on policies to make it better for our nation.

Is it Trumps fault? Well Trump being TRUMP is a fault, but he is NOT doing anything unconstitutional. Leader of the Executive branch, enforces laws and proposes new laws to congress. Commander in Chief, protecting our nation.... From foreign threats and Illegal entry into our nation.


If people Cannot fathom that, they have not read the basics and understood the basic of what the president does....and THAT is why we have failed.....its only going to get worse.....

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We probably have passed the point of no return when it comes to our politics. Gone are the days the two parties would work together for the good of the nation. A little give here, a take there. compromise a bit. Keep the small steps moving forward. Today each party wants all or nothing. Each party has labeled the other as this nations number on enemy, the biggest threat to the country.

The days of a Lott and Daschle or a Mitchell and Dole working together in the senate are long gone. Replaced by first Reid and McConnell, then add Schumer to the mix. Leaders who put their party way above everything else to include country.

I do think Trump is more of a symptom of our problems, not the cause. The cause began way before this obnoxious guy arrived on the scene. If you go back before 2000 and maybe as late as 2006, straight party line votes were rare and hardly never happened. Today, almost everything seems to be straight party line.

I agree, it only will get worst. We're headed for a totally non-functional government because in my opinion loyalty to political party has replaced loyalty to the nation. Working for the good of the country has been replaced by only working for the good of the political party. You won't get the die hard, very partisan Republicans and Democrats to acknowledge that. Both parties now view compromise as giving your party everything and giving nothing.

We're headed for very rough times. Until and if we can ever get some adult leadership that is willing to put the country first, we might not come out of this.

Perotista said:

2016 was a unique election where a majority of Americans didn't one or the other to become president. Around 60% of Americans disliked Clinton and around the same amount disliked Trump. So if we elected an demagogue it solely because of the choices offered two years ago. We may have or we may have not. Time will tell.

Click to expand...

There were other Republicans running for president in 2016. Nobody said, we need this guy (Trump) to win the Republican primary.

Perotista said:

We probably have passed the point of no return when it comes to our politics. Gone are the days the two parties would work together for the good of the nation. A little give here, a take there. compromise a bit. Keep the small steps moving forward. Today each party wants all or nothing. Each party has labeled the other as this nations number on enemy, the biggest threat to the country.

The days of a Lott and Daschle or a Mitchell and Dole working together in the senate are long gone. Replaced by first Reid and McConnell, then add Schumer to the mix. Leaders who put their party way above everything else to include country.

I do think Trump is more of a symptom of our problems, not the cause. The cause began way before this obnoxious guy arrived on the scene. If you go back before 2000 and maybe as late as 2006, straight party line votes were rare and hardly never happened. Today, almost everything seems to be straight party line.

I agree, it only will get worst. We're headed for a totally non-functional government because in my opinion loyalty to political party has replaced loyalty to the nation. Working for the good of the country has been replaced by only working for the good of the political party. You won't get the die hard, very partisan Republicans and Democrats to acknowledge that. Both parties now view compromise as giving your party everything and giving nothing.

We're headed for very rough times. Until and if we can ever get some adult leadership that is willing to put the country first, we might not come out of this.

Click to expand...

Sadly, I agree with this sentiment. I think that two party political systems are like a rubber band: The further it's pulled in one direction, the harder it snaps back in the other. The Obama administration was a pretty hard left pull in reaction to the Bush Administration. The republicans then made use of their advantage in numbers and dug their feet in in an effort to not allow a democratic administration to take credit for the inevitable economic recovery that economists knew was coming after the depression at the end of the Bush administration. Now that republicans have regained control with a hard right pull on the coat-tails of Donald Trump, democrats are attempting the same tactic. I think it's telling that even with a majority, republicans are still having a hard time getting anything done. Now there's talk of a "blue wave" in the coming months and openly socialist candidates are multiplying throughout the country. At some point, one side or the other is going to have to let the rubber band settle. It seems blatantly obvious that it's not going to be the republicans this term, as this is anathema to who Donald Trump is, and I don't have much hope that the dems will take the high road in 2020 either.

In any event, the next 20 or so years are going to be very interesting.

Atheist 2020 said:

There were other Republicans running for president in 2016. Nobody said, we need this guy (Trump) to win the Republican primary.

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Apparently enough Republicans did as did enough Democrats did for Hillary Clinton. It was after all, each parties choice as to whom they nominated.

MrMike said:

Hmmm... I never mentioned race. Weird you'd do that.

However, since you did that, I must note that it is a Latino (La Raza guy) running the commercial operation that is making the big $$$$$ off of these kids in his government contracted holding centers. This is the same guy that was running them during the Obama tenure (which I must note didn't suffer from the new faux outrage of Liberals over the situation).

Now, back to the issue. Parents bringing their kids on a criminal enterprise and wondering why they are all in trouble? Sorry, I don't feel sorry for them.

Click to expand...

Not to mention that many of these kids did not show up with their parents but were handed over to couriers. The left studiously avoids that part.

MrMike said:

Trump was out snatching 3000 children away from their moms who took them on a criminal activity and giving them drugs? Not 2999? or 3001?

I heard he made a cow's milk go sour too...

Click to expand...

Please continue with that Narrative of defending CCCCs—Christian Conservative Concentration Camps for the 2018 Mid-Terms.

Along with defending Traitors Carter Page and Paul Manafort, et al.

veritas1 said:

Not to mention that many of these kids did not show up with their parents but were handed over to couriers. The left studiously avoids that part.

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Removing Children from War Zones caused by USA drug policy is so NOT Banana Republican.

lwf said:

Sadly, I agree with this sentiment. I think that two party political systems are like a rubber band: The further it's pulled in one direction, the harder it snaps back in the other. The Obama administration was a pretty hard left pull in reaction to the Bush Administration. The republicans then made use of their advantage in numbers and dug their feet in in an effort to not allow a democratic administration to take credit for the inevitable economic recovery that economists knew was coming after the depression at the end of the Bush administration. Now that republicans have regained control with a hard right pull on the coat-tails of Donald Trump, democrats are attempting the same tactic. I think it's telling that even with a majority, republicans are still having a hard time getting anything done. Now there's talk of a "blue wave" in the coming months and openly socialist candidates are multiplying throughout the country. At some point, one side or the other is going to have to let the rubber band settle. It seems blatantly obvious that it's not going to be the republicans this term, as this is anathema to who Donald Trump is, and I don't have much hope that the dems will take the high road in 2020 either.

In any event, the next 20 or so years are going to be very interesting.

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Interesting is one way to put it. Worrisome is another. I agree, there will be a hard left, perhaps socialist for the Dems in 2020. Versus Trump, as of today, my money would be on the Dem. It seems both major parties have forgotten about the middle, the center, center left and center right. I like the rubber band analogy.

Today and in the future it seems, everything is about stopping the other party from accomplishing anything at all. I miss the days when legislation and policy was debated, the both parties getting together to preserve the good and toss out the bad portions. I don't know if this nation can survive another 20 years of this party first politics, this stopping the other party cold in their tracks on everything even if means you get nothing.

Interesting is too kind a word.

Perotista said:

2016 was a unique election where a majority of Americans didn't one or the other to become president. Around 60% of Americans disliked Clinton and around the same amount disliked Trump. So if we elected an demagogue it solely because of the choices offered two years ago. We may have or we may have not. Time will tell.

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You continue to Forget that HRC was a Goldwater Girl, the MAN you say you supoorted. You also continue to have a lapse on the 44-year War against HRC due to being on the Watergate Staff.

I will NEVER allow a false moral equivalence between HRC and #45, between Reid and McConnell, between GOPs and DEMs; EVER.

Linc said:

Please continue with that Narrative of defending CCCCs—Christian Conservative Concentration Camps for the 2018 Mid-Terms.

Along with defending Traitors Carter Page and Paul Manafort, et al.

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Hilarious. Page hasn't been charged with a thing and is walking around free. Manafort is being charged over tax and banking irregularities from 2005. Some traitors. Oh, and Obama put kids in cages, too. Maybe you missed that.

Linc said:

You continue to Forget that HRC was a Goldwater Girl, the MAN you say you supoorted. You also continue to have a lapse on the 44-year War against HRC due to being on the Watergate Staff.

I will NEVER allow a false moral equivalence between HRC and #45, between Reid and McConnell, between GOPs and DEMs; EVER.

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Yep, Hillary was indeed a Goldwater girl. Thanks to her Barry doesn't have the lowest favorable of any major party candidate anymore. Give her credit where credit is do. I highly doubt Hillary being on the Watergate staff had anything at all to do with how most Americans looked or viewed her. That was 1974, 44 years ago believe it or not. That means anyone under 45 wasn't around to remember it, personally that is. I was stationed in Thailand at the time, so what I heard about it was either from Thai TV or AFTN or the Stars and Stripes.

Pretty much everyone I know gave Hillary high marks as Secretary of State, but didn't want her as president. Of course quite a few didn't want Trump either. I thought Hillary would win, I was rather shocked when I learned she lost. I had spent 9 months resigning myself to a Hillary Clinton presidency. All for naught.

The election was Hillary's to lose, not for Trump to win. Lose it Hillary did. I could give the facts and figures, but it does no good. No one wants to blame her for her own loss.

Perotista said:

Apparently enough Republicans did as did enough Democrats did for Hillary Clinton. It was after all, each parties choice as to whom they nominated.

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Difference was, Trump was politically selling candies and sweets. Clinton was selling give me two terms.

lwf said:

Sadly, I agree with this sentiment. I think that two party political systems are like a rubber band: The further it's pulled in one direction, the harder it snaps back in the other. The Obama administration was a pretty hard left pull in reaction to the Bush Administration. The republicans then made use of their advantage in numbers and dug their feet in in an effort to not allow a democratic administration to take credit for the inevitable economic recovery that economists knew was coming after the depression at the end of the Bush administration. Now that republicans have regained control with a hard right pull on the coat-tails of Donald Trump, democrats are attempting the same tactic. I think it's telling that even with a majority, republicans are still having a hard time getting anything done. Now there's talk of a "blue wave" in the coming months and openly socialist candidates are multiplying throughout the country. At some point, one side or the other is going to have to let the rubber band settle. It seems blatantly obvious that it's not going to be the republicans this term, as this is anathema to who Donald Trump is, and I don't have much hope that the dems will take the high road in 2020 either.

In any event, the next 20 or so years are going to be very interesting.

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I am not sure.... In all honesty..... I think people are starting to see what is really going on here.


Here is my take..... there is a reason "why" Congress requires 60 votes rather than just "majority" that is the issue we face, people scream Republicans control the house and senate, Sure, by pure numbers yes, BUT we do not CONTROl the actual vote, its 49/51 Repubs..... NOW.... if we swung this mid terms to get the actual "Majority" 60/40 swing that is required to pass LAWS, then we are in motion to vote things through.


What is disgusting is, Even the will of the people are confused. If we NEVER break the 60/40 marker we will likely never pass a single resolution, because of the rubber band theory as state.

My HOPE is that if we do NOT learn to work together meaning, sure we can split the house for majority 51/49 BUT, we need at least 9 dems to cross over to get the 60 (which at this point does not look like its ever going to happen)

It is UP to the WILL of the people to VOTE in a majority 60 votes in congress of one party to make any ACTUAL change. Obama likely was the last chance at this.... He got ACA enacted by congress, likely, something like that may never happen again......


Repubs...if you dont like how the country votes.... Get a Republican President voted and get your people to move the Congress majority vote to 60. Dems if you dont like the repubs agenda, you do the same thing..... But just stonewalling and party line votes will continue this country downward. To blame and LOOK at HALF the darn post in the MSM forum..... the first thing is to blame trump..... its not even related sometimes... jeezus!

Atheist 2020 said:

Difference was, Trump was politically selling candies and sweets. Clinton was selling give me two terms.

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If I remember right, Clinton was promising to be a third Obama term. Outside of the wall, I'm not sure what Trump was selling. Trump did have the better slogan. Make America Great Again. If Hillary had one, I sure can't remember. What I do remember about Trump during the primaries was saying one thing one day, the opposite the next, then denying saying anything at all on the third.

I think once I realized that, I stopped paying attention to him.

Perotista said:

Trump did have the better slogan. Make America Great Again.

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Reagan also used Make America Great Again. A smart movie in 2016 and a killer for the 2020 presidential election. Reason, anyone has the free choice to decide what America should be. Still, if you support it, your not a positive American in the first place. It is just a trope, without any master plan that leaves his base disengaged with there own values.