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Would you vote for a candidate who supports single payer health care?

jonny5 said:
Its only better in that is provides the best average healthcare. Our healthcare system provides the best care that one can afford, the best medical professionals, hospitals, research, all which drives innovation. Why would we want to give that up?
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Research shows Denmark provides a better healthcare than USA for its people, overall. And yes, they do it cheaper.

Even if top 1% or 10% can afford to buy a better healthcare than average Denmark's one (do you have any source to confirm that or just your guess?), then for overall population it's still not a better system.
 
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Slavister said:
Research shows Denmark provides a better healthcare than USA for its people, overall.

Even if top 1% or 10% can afford to buy a better healthcare than average Denmark's one (do you have any source to confirm that or just your guess?), then for overall population it's still not a better system.
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Yeah, if everyone forks over 85% of their paycheck for government run healthcare which sucks. I'll take freedom and liberty for $1000, Alex.
 
Slavister said:
Research shows Denmark provides a better healthcare than USA for its people, overall. And yes, they do it cheaper.

Even if top 1% or 10% can afford to buy a better healthcare than average Denmark's one (do you have any source to confirm that or just your guess?), then for overall population it's still not a better system.
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Yeah, overall. But it doesnt provide the best possible healthcare that an individual can afford. Which is why people travel to the US for care. And import medicine, professionals, and technology from us. Youre asking me to give up the best health care possible for me, to pay for better overall care for everyone else. What do I get?
 
Slavister said:
Wrong. Taxes are high in Denmark but not nearly what you state.
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When you add in state, sales, and other compulsory and confiscatory taxes, yes, it it still 85-90%



It's better than US one, as I showed in post you are replying to
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 Waiting weeks to months on end for a crucial or critical procedure is not better.



Huh?
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Socialist countries have less to zero freedom.
 
jonny5 said:
Yeah, overall. But it doesnt provide the best possible healthcare that an individual can afford. Which is why people travel to the US for care. And import medicine, professionals, and technology from us. Youre asking me to give up the best health care possible for me, to pay for better overall care for everyone else. What do I get?
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If you are an average jonny in this country, you'd get a BETTER healthcare for LESS money.

Secondly, I am not suggesting to necessarily KILL all the advanced medical care that costs a lot of money. Perhaps it will continue to be only available to people willing to pay a ton of money, in cash. But that would be irrelevant to 90% of the population.
 
Bassman said:
When you add in state, sales, and other compulsory and confiscatory taxes, yes, it it still 85-90%
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What's your source exactly on how you arrive at this 85-90% figure. And what's your comparable source for USA taxes then?


Bassman said:
Waiting weeks to months on end for a crucial or critical procedure is not better.
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Meaningless comeback. Why don't you read the research I mentioned and show me which research you are relying on before claiming stuff. Is overall care in Denmark better or worse? I showed you it's better, on a whole range of parameters.

Bassman said:
Socialist countries have less to zero freedom.
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Meaningless slogan inapplicable to this discussion. Denmark is not socialist last time I checked. Perhaps you need to read on what it means to be a socialist country.
 
Slavister said:
If you are an average jonny in this country, you'd get a BETTER healthcare for LESS money.

Secondly, I am not suggesting to necessarily KILL all the advanced medical care that costs a lot of money. Perhaps it will continue to be only available to people willing to pay a ton of money, in cash. But that would be irrelevant to 90% of the population.
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I am not willing to get better healthcare for less money, by taking someone elses money and healthcare. Nor to give up the advantages our for profit system has of creating the best doctors, facilities, and science.
 
jonny5 said:
I am not willing to get better healthcare for less money, by taking someone elses money and healthcare.
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This is how insurance works. When you get fire insurance, the point is that you are pooled with other people getting insurance so you don't have to rebuild your house from scratch when hurricane hits.

This is how military works too. You are pooling resources (taxes) from everyone to provide defense for everyone.

So, you are not taking someone elses money. Everyone is pooling to cover everyone in time of need.

jonny5 said:
Nor to give up the advantages our for profit system has of creating the best doctors, facilities, and science.
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First, regarding best doctors / facilities / science? Do you have any trustworthy sources to back that up? Or you just want to believe that?

Secondly, facilities and doctors would still be running private businesses and would still be for-profit. What makes you think that would change?
 
independentusa said:
The Koch Brothers, not exactly a couple of left wingers, paid for a study concerning single payer health care costs versus our present program. Surprisingly the study showed that over a ten year period the single payer system would not only cover all Americans, it would save 2 trillion dollars. Knowing this, would you vote for a candidate who supported single payer health care?
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What I know that what you give as fact is not fully factual. So, it does not constitute my "knowing this". Nonetheless, I support single-payer.
 
independentusa said:
The Koch Brothers, not exactly a couple of left wingers, paid for a study concerning single payer health care costs versus our present program. Surprisingly the study showed that over a ten year period the single payer system would not only cover all Americans, it would save 2 trillion dollars. Knowing this, would you vote for a candidate who supported single payer health care?
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What I know is that what you say is fact is not fully factual. It does not constitute my "knowing this". Nonetheless, I support single-payer.
 
Slavister said:
This is how insurance works. When you get fire insurance, the point is that you are pooled with other people getting insurance so you don't have to rebuild your house from scratch when hurricane hits.

This is how military works too. You are pooling resources (taxes) from everyone to provide defense for everyone.

So, you are not taking someone elses money. Everyone is pooling to cover everyone in time of need.



First, regarding best doctors / facilities / science? Do you have any trustworthy sources to back that up? Or you just want to believe that?

Secondly, facilities and doctors would still be running private businesses and would still be for-profit. What makes you think that would change?
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Insurance is voluntary. Single payer govt run healthcare is not. It is literally taking money from those who earn it to buy things for people who didnt. Can I opt out? Nope.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/clinical-medicine

Plenty of trustworthy sources to show that the US produces the best doctors, medicine, and innovation.
 
independentusa said:
The Koch Brothers, not exactly a couple of left wingers, paid for a study concerning single payer health care costs versus our present program. Surprisingly the study showed that over a ten year period the single payer system would not only cover all Americans, it would save 2 trillion dollars. Knowing this, would you vote for a candidate who supported single payer health care?
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If the candidate understands and acknowledges the concept of tradeoffs, and prioritizes truth-telling over blowing smoke up people's asses, sure.
 
I rarely decide on voting based on a single parameter. I look at the whole of what I believe they will do.
 
Slavister said:
Ok, so none of this is relevant:
(1) Denmark is not a socialist society
(2) Noone said we must be like Denmark in everything. Their healthcare is better than ours though, so hey, why not take that one or do something along those lines but try better?
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Better is obviously in the eye of the beholder. If people want free stuff and Denmark appeals to them then let them go there and leave free America alone.

ocassio eats free lunch at american evil rich dudes expense.jpg
 
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