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US Worst Place to Give Birth in Developed World

Lord Tammerlain said:
So now you want to cherry pick specific parts of the US and specific parts of the EU, as a means to explain high maternal deaths in the US
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They be the black areas…

This debate went on for months years ago and it is the same lame arguments from the right time and time again.. just different posters. Although a few of the original gang are still around, but some have been banned and others sadly passed.

Oh and if he gets to cherrypick, then so can I.

Romania is out of the "European statistics"... as are all Romanians living outside Romania in the EU.. cause you know, they are poor and dirty and stuff.. Add to that the Bulgarians, and of course the Romani... and for ****s and giggles lets go religious wise as well and block all Muslims and Jews!
 
celticwar17 said:
I did not say we don't pay more per capita...

If this thread was just about how our healthcare is ridiculously expensive, I would agree with it.... but instead, I wanted to call out the FACT that it is making false comparisons in order to make that point.
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This also doesn't go to figure out that there are outlining factors that are ignore or distort what happens.
Not all countries report the same. they have different standards. Such as in most countries they do not count miscarriages
as death. here in the US we do.

In fact even after the baby is born it must weigh a certain weight and be alive for so long before it is considered a death.
here in the US that is not the case.

It is these types of distortions that make our system look worse than what it is which is why in most of these cases we are comparing apples and oranges.

Just as in this case there are other factors at play that "american medical sucks". which is basically his argument.

Again there are area's for improvement but there are factors that are not medical issues that come into play that for some reason get lumped in.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Please remember the stat is maternal deaths per 100,000 births

So the correlation is taken into account automatically as part of the statistic being provided
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You don't understand that there is phenomena that come with an increased birthrate that causes an increased likelihood of maternity deaths.

How?
In a country with higher birthrates is also a country that tends to have higher percentage of teen pregnancies, which also have a higher chance of maternity death.



More abortions, Woman who have had abortions have an increased risk of death and Maternal death. The US abortion rate is significantly higher than the UK(Which is the only on I checked), from what I can tell the UK abortion rate in 7/1000 and the USA is 186/1000.

There is a correlation to overweight woman and maternal death. the USA has a lot of fat people.


You never make One-Dimensional comparisons like this.... it makes people look stupid.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
So now you want to cherry pick specific parts of the US and specific parts of the EU, as a means to explain high maternal deaths in the US
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No... I want to compare the whole to the whole..
 
celticwar17 said:
You don't understand that there is phenomena that come with an increased birthrate that causes an increased likelihood of maternity deaths.
How?
In a country with higher birthrates is also a country that tends to have higher percentage of teen pregnancies, which also have a higher chance of maternity death.
There is a correlation to overweight woman and maternal death. the USA has a lot of fat people.
More abortions, Woman who have had abortions have an increased risk of death and Maternal death. The US abortion rate is significantly higher than the UK(Which is the only on I checked), from what I can tell the UK abortion rate in 7/1000 and the USA is 186/1000.
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You'll fantasize up this wide range of excuses but simply refuse to admit "maybe there is some truth to it and there's room for improvement on our part".

celticwar17 said:
No... I want to compare the whole to the whole..
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We already did, it's 8 in 100k to 14 in 100k. Is your brain just blocking that out?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Ooh, the same dumbass argument defending our failures pops up again on page 2. It's because we have more babies so naturally more die! Because that's how per capita statistics work!
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Oh, the dumbass response that believes if you don't do anything, you won't make any mistakes.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
You'll fantasize up this wide range of excuses but simply refuse to admit "maybe there is some truth to it and there's room for improvement on our part".



We already did, it's 8 in 100k to 14 in 100k. Is your brain just blocking that out?
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They aren't excuses. They are facts.

And good! Now take into account everything else I have said as well and we are golden ;)

when a country has 14 times more abortions... and abortion death is included in these statistics.... you have no idea why the USA has more maternity deaths?

And Americans are significantly fatter.... Diabetes, Hypertension, and fat.... significantly increases your chance of a maternal death.

I think that's a cultural thing more than a healthcare thing.

Maybe you should start a fat shaming campaign to decrease the maternity deaths.... i'm down.


OH AND WHAT A COINCIDENCE.... California is in the top 4 states with the least amount of obesity!!!!
 
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celticwar17 said:
You don't understand that there is phenomena that come with an increased birthrate that causes an increased likelihood of maternity deaths.

How?
In a country with higher birthrates is also a country that tends to have higher percentage of teen pregnancies, which also have a higher chance of maternity death.



More abortions, Woman who have had abortions have an increased risk of death and Maternal death. The US abortion rate is significantly higher than the UK(Which is the only on I checked), from what I can tell the UK abortion rate in 7/1000 and the USA is 186/1000.

There is a correlation to overweight woman and maternal death. the USA has a lot of fat people.


You never make One-Dimensional comparisons like this.... it makes people look stupid.
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Yes I understand that when a place has more births it will likely have more maternal deaths. So a country that has 1 million births will have more maternal deaths than a country that has 100 000 births. Which is why the comparison is deaths per 100 000 births. That makes it a ratio, not an absolute, to allow for comparison
 
celticwar17 said:
You don't understand that there is phenomena that come with an increased birthrate that causes an increased likelihood of maternity deaths.

How?
In a country with higher birthrates is also a country that tends to have higher percentage of teen pregnancies, which also have a higher chance of maternity death.



More abortions, Woman who have had abortions have an increased risk of death and Maternal death. The US abortion rate is significantly higher than the UK(Which is the only on I checked), from what I can tell the UK abortion rate in 7/1000 and the USA is 186/1000.

There is a correlation to overweight woman and maternal death. the USA has a lot of fat people.


You never make One-Dimensional comparisons like this.... it makes people look stupid.
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Deaths from abortions are not included in this statistic
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Deaths from abortions are not included in this statistic
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From my understanding, it actually is...whenever I look up various sites on the statistic.
But regardless, having a past abortion increases the chance of mortality anyway.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Yes I understand that when a place has more births it will likely have more maternal deaths. So a country that has 1 million births will have more maternal deaths than a country that has 100 000 births. Which is why the comparison is deaths per 100 000 births. That makes it a ratio, not an absolute, to allow for comparison
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You must have just not read... because your response makes no sense.

Then let me give you an analogy.

25% Population A drinks alcohol

60% Population B drinks alcohol

Population B has more alcohol related deaths per drinker.... why? Should they not be around the same? Why would the rates of each be different?

It's because populations who 60% drinks alcohol tend to have a culture of irresponsible alcohol use.
So hypothetically, the difference between the two populations in percentage of drinkers may be 25% to 60%..... but the percentage of binge drinkers may be 5% to 30%, that's a difference from 1 to 6 instead of aprox 1 to 2.5. The increase in drinkers in proportion to the population increased the rate of binge drinkers exponentially at a different rate.

It's the same with fertility rates.... the increase in fertility rate increases the likelyhood of people with poor behaviors, bad situations, poor decision making increases the mortality at a higher rate in proportion. European countries have such a low birthrate is because culturally their population is making "smarter" decisions on their career and choices....
 
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RabidAlpaca said:
We pay over double per capita what most other western nations pay for health care yet we still rank extremely low in almost every metric. We have tens of millions of Americans with ZERO health care and tens of millions more who go bankrupt from medical bills.

Any and all suggestions to steer our system towards a proven model that would cover every man, woman and child from cradle to grave for literally everything at half the cost, are met with autistic screeching "SOCIALISM!! HOW YOU GONNA PAY FOR THAT, COMRADE??" They hyperbolize about "death panels" when UHC countries cover everything, no questions asked, but have no problem with American insurance companies having literal death panels who decide if they feel like paying out a claim or not.

This is one of the many reasons I've become disenchanted with America and Americans in general. There's a fundamental cancer deep in the heart of America that opposes any and all progress or improvement. We'll never improve as long as our people simply don't want to.

By the way, how's that super wonderful Trump-Care we were all promised working out?
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Very well spoken....kudos!
 
celticwar17 said:
You must have just not read... because your response makes no sense.

Then let me give you an analogy.

25% Population A drinks alcohol

60% Population B drinks alcohol

Population B has more alcohol related deaths per drinker.... why? Should they not be around the same? Why would the rates of each be different?

It's because populations who 60% drinks alcohol tend to have a culture of irresponsible alcohol use.
So hypothetically, the difference between the two populations in percentage of drinkers maybe be 25% to 60%..... but the percentage of binge drinkers may be 5% to 30%, that's a difference from 1 to 6 instead on aprox 1 to 2.5. The increase in drinkers in proportion to the population increased the rate of binge drinkers exponentially at a different rate.

It's the same with fertility rates.... the increase in fertility rate increases the likelyhood of people with poor behaviors, bad situations, poor decision making increases the mortality at a higher rate in proportion. European countries have such a low birthrate is because culturally their population is making "smarter" decisions on their career and choices....
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Re the bold
You really do not understand statistics and what they mean
25% Population A drinks alcohol

60% Population B drinks alcohol

From this you can predict population B will have more alcohol related deaths than population A as it relates to the entire population of A and B. Not to the number of drinker.

You can easily have a higher death rate among population A drinkers, than Population B drinkers. The way to indicate that is

Number of deaths per 100 000 drinkers. This will remove the effects of all non drinkers from the statistic and only compare the drinkers in each population.

So to relate it to maternal deaths per 100 000 births. For the Canadian statistic I am not include in it. I did not give birth. Neither is my son or my anyone in my family. My neighbor down the street, who did give birth is included in the statistic. So to be absolutely clear


The only people included in the statistic "maternal deaths per 100 000 births" are people (ie females) who gave birth in that specific year (perhaps carried into next year depending on when she may have died). People who did not give birth are not part of this statistic. So the fact the US has a higher birth rate (not by much) is not important as it is a comparison of just those that gave birth, not the population as a whole
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Re the bold
You really do not understand statistics and what they mean
25% Population A drinks alcohol

60% Population B drinks alcohol

From this you can predict population B will have more alcohol related deaths than population A as it relates to the entire population of A and B. Not to the number of drinker.

You can easily have a higher death rate among population A drinkers, than Population B drinkers. The way to indicate that is

Number of deaths per 100 000 drinkers. This will remove the effects of all non drinkers from the statistic and only compare the drinkers in each population.

So to relate it to maternal deaths per 100 000 births. For the Canadian statistic I am not include in it. I did not give birth. Neither is my son or my anyone in my family. My neighbor down the street, who did give birth is included in the statistic. So to be absolutely clear


The only people included in the statistic "maternal deaths per 100 000 births" are people (ie females) who gave birth in that specific year (perhaps carried into next year depending on when she may have died). People who did not give birth are not part of this statistic. So the fact the US has a higher birth rate (not by much) is not important as it is a comparison of just those that gave birth, not the population as a whole
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LOL...my palm is through my face....

I crafted the example to fit the situation perfectly...

OF COURSE you expect the population of 60% drinker to have more deaths..... but you would expect those deaths to be in the SAME proportion of drinker to population A.... but in my example, THAT IS NOT THE CASE. Because the actual increase of drinker percentage of the population increases the deaths AT A DIFFERENT RATE... an increase in drinker percentage has a correlation to exponential death increase, NOT proportional death increase.

I have a freaking physics graduate degree, I have no problems with statistics.
 
calamity said:
So much for that myth that "We have the best Healthcare in the World!"

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/n...mpsia-postpartum-hemorrhage-safety/546889002/




We have the most expensive health care in the world. But, we certainly do not get what we pay for.


Well, except California. Blue State knows what it's doing.



Red states not so much. And, deep Red states are horrible.
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Some less biased reading:

No, America Doesn't Have The Highest Maternal Mortality Rate In The Developed World
 
celticwar17 said:
LOL...my palm is through my face....
...
I have a freaking physics graduate degree, I have no problems with statistics.
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From the following:
Hospitals know how to protect mothers. They just aren’t doing it.

Updated 12:59 pm EDT Jul. 26, 2018


Every year, thousands of women suffer life-altering injuries or die during childbirth because hospitals and medical workers skip safety practices known to head off disaster, a USA TODAY investigation has found.
Doctors and nurses should be weighing bloody pads to track blood loss so they recognize the danger sooner. They should be giving medication within an hour of spotting dangerously high blood pressure to fend off strokes.
These are not complicated procedures requiring expensive technology. They are among basic tasks that experts have recommended for years because they can save mothers’ lives.

Yet hospitals,*doctors and nurses*across the country continue to ignore them, USA TODAY found.
As a result, women are left to bleed until their organs shut down. Their high blood pressure goes untreated until they suffer strokes. They die of preventable blood clots and untreated infections. Survivors can be left paralyzed or unable to have more children.
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https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/n...BlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatoday-newstopstories
 
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PeteEU said:
Been a known issue for years.

The following excuses will pop up eventually... one has already.

1) US is a big country.
2) If you take the black population out of the numbers then the US is the best!.
3) It is Obamas fault
4) But Clinton.
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You can pretty much predict ever stupid response from many right wingers, because it is always a stupid deflection and they have limited vocabulary so its often the same stupid ones over and over again. When all else fails, yell fake news
 
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