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Right wingers: Are you racist?

AlbqOwl said:
Perhaps some black people went from America to Liberia but such was never more than incidental. From Wikipedia that usually could benefit from some competent historical editing, they did get the gist of the situation well here:
In the early 19th century, the black population in the United States increased dramatically. Many of these African Americans were freed people seeking a better life. Many Southern freed blacks migrated to the industrial North to seek employment while others moved to surrounding Southern states.[1] Their progress was met with hostility as many whites were not used to sharing space with blacks in a context outside of chattel slavery. Many did not believe that free Africans had a place in America and thought the very existence of free blacks undermined the system of slavery and encouraged slaves to revolt.[2] In the North, whites feared that they would lose jobs to free African Americans, while other whites did not like the idea of blacks integrating with whites, but such sentiment was not exclusive to northerners. In Virginia, for example, one proponent of the Colonization movement, Solomon Parker of Hampshire County, was quoted as having said: “I am not willing that the Man or any of my Blacks shall ever be freed to remain in the United States.... Am opposed to slavery and also opposed to freeing blacks to stay in our Country and do sincerely hope that the time is approaching when our Land shall be rid of them."[3] Riots swept the nation in waves, usually in urban areas where there had been recent migration of blacks from the South. During the height of these riots in 1819, there were 25 recorded riots, with many killed and injured.[4] The back-to-Africa movement was seen as the solution to these problems by both groups, but more so with the white population than the blacks. Blacks often viewed the project with suspicion, especially among the middle-class, and worried that the Colonization movement was a ploy to deport freed African-Americans to keep them from making efforts against slavery. For example, shortly after the foundation of the American Colonization Society, 3,000 free blacks gathered in a church in Philadelphia and issued forth a declaration stating that they "will never separate ourselves voluntarily from the slave population of the country." Similarly, black leaders, such as James Forten, who had previously supported the Colonization Movement, changed their minds as a result of widespread black resistance to the idea. . .​
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-to-Africa_movement

Your attempt to make it a Republican thing was pretty lame, but as I said, and perhaps you agree, it was a deeply ingrained cultural thing of that era, and it would take some generations to change the culture to something less institutionally racist.
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“Perhaps some black people went from America to Liberia but such was never more than incidental.”

No, not “perhaps.” It actually happened. A competent word usage of “perhaps” would be as a “possibility”, not as the certainty that black Americans moving to Liberia actually was.

“Your attempt to make it a Republican thing was pretty lame”

Your saying that my making the “Back to Africa” movement a “Republican thing” is what’s lame, and disingenuous. I didn’t say any such thing. I said that leading Republicans supported giving plantation land to former slaves of the South, not supporting sending blacks to Liberia. That leading Reps of the day did so is a fact. If you can’t debate honestly and forthrightly, or aren't capable of a literal level of comprehension, you’ll not get a pass from me. Go away.
 
JC Callender said:
A question for the right wingers here, do you consider yourself a racist? Do you feel your race is superior to anyone else's or do you feel prejudice towards any race or races?
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No, no and no. Race isn't an issue for me.

I'm not a racist and I consider myself right leaning on the majority of issues. This issue is interesting to me because I've come to the conclusion that many if not most leftists believe that right wingers are racist yet I never have conversations that have anything to do with racism with other right wingers.
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I have found that when left wingers throw around the word racist it's nothing more than a tactic of trying to discredit and silence the opposition. Like for example if you are against amnesty or legal status for illegal aliens they try to label you a racist. I doubt most left wingers actually believe the right are racist except for maybe a few children, a few mental midgets and those who rode the short bus to school. Sure there are some on the right who are racist just as there are some on the left who are racist. But racist don't make up the majority of either group.They are just a fringe group that dishonest leftist loonies try to use to paint the whole entire group as.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
I've already made a personal decision to talk about "majority privilege" rather than "white privilege" so as to minimize the backlash that some white people rain upon me whenever we discuss the topic. I have no intention in the world of further policing, modifying, and distilling my language just to make that type of person feel better about herself. The problem is not the word "privilege". The problem is the concept it represents and the defensive guilt that it incites in some people. Good. Those people should feel uncomfortable. A problem cannot be addressed unless it is candidly discussed. I respect your decision and the thought that you put into it, but I will not be joining you.
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Well, privilege isn't just exclusive to race. We can talk about other minority groups that are disadvantaged as well, and we should beyond a communication technique. Personally, I don't feel generalizing it like that would have benefits. It seems like it would make it overly-broad, and thus a more difficult concept to comprehend. In addition, it probably doesn't give the problems the respect they deserve by singling out the issues.

I agree though, no matter what you do some people aren't going to change or accept the realities of it. However, I do feel there are people that are salvageable using different techniques, and ignoring that for our own pride in my opinion isn't the way. Plus, I don't feel people respond to discomfort the way people think they do, at least not to where it should be our primary strategy. I see it talked about a lot, but I've always noticed it creates resentment more often than agreeableness. What I have noticed though is that intelligence creates change. It's apparent in how we see generational improvements in race relations.

And the thing is, I don't think we're as far off as people think we are. We don't need to teach everyone, just enough to create a majority influence on the population. I believe that's how we create true discomfort, that of normative social influence.
 
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thenotorious said:
speak and believe are two different words. So what someone says doesn't actually mean anything without the appropriate actions taken in their place.
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Feminists also say they care about women's rights but when you tell them about girls having their clitorises cut off in the Middle East, they don't say a peep. And feminists are part of the Left.

Something that is clearly lacking with all the racists that like to pretend they don't see "color", but then look outside their blinds with 911 on speed dial when a black person does something as terrible as goes out for a jog.
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Do you have any proof that "racists" call the 911 when they see a black person taking a walk?
 
Cardinal said:
Nobody considers themselves "racist."
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LOL. Yes they do. Racist groups make their belief in their race's superiority the center-point of their whole culture!
 
Wan said:
But they called the cops not because she was black. They did so because they thought she was engaged in suspicious activity.
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:lamo Yes she was engaged in the suspicious activity of being black in America. The sad deflection you keep trying to attempt won't work. We all know why the blinds were folded over and the phone was dialed with a mix of adrenaline and amusement. I'm sure you can point out the other white politicians that get dialed for exercising their rights as well. :roll:

You can fool other racists with your "you can't catch me racism", but you're not going to trick actually informed people. Sorry.

Wan said:
Also I noticed that you did not address the feminist part.
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Address what? Another conservative going off on a tangent in a weak attempt to prove a point? This literally has no relevancy to the discussion.
 
jmotivator said:
LOL. Yes they do. Racist groups make their belief in their race's superiority the center-point of their whole culture!
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Do they use the word “racist” when describing themselves?
 
thenotorious said:
:lamo Yes she was engaged in the suspicious activity of being black in America.
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If you seriously want to claim that people called the cops because she was black, you will have to prove it. But it probably won't be easy because I don't think you can read people's minds. You literally do NOT know why people do the things they do.

The sad deflection you keep trying to attempt won't work.
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You are getting heated.

We all know why the blinds were folded over and the phone was dialed with a mix of adrenaline and amusement.
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Like I said, you literally do NOT know the reason why people do certain things.

I'm sure you can point out the other white politicians that get dialed for exercising their rights as well. :roll:
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If a white politician is doing something that can be construed as suspicious, I am sure he would get dialed, too. Heck, white people get reported to the police everyday.

You can fool other racists with your "you can't catch me racism", but you're not going to trick actually informed people. Sorry.
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Being a racist is not a crime.

Address what? Another conservative going off on a tangent in a weak attempt to prove a point? This literally has no relevancy to the discussion.
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The reason I brought the feminist thing up is to show you that you should look within yourself and your group to see if you are also guilty of what you accuse the "conservatives" of doing.
 
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Cardinal said:
Do they use the word “racist” when describing themselves?
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Of course they do. Anyone who claims the superiority of their race above others is openly admitting their racism.
 
Moderate Right said:
Now you should know, only white people can be racist.
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Now, here's where we need to get on the same page with definitions. Certainly, many black and brown people can be bigots, and I've personally had it directed at me, quite a few times. I think of racism, however, as an institutional attitude and, in this country, those attitudes have been implemented, as laws, by white people.

With regard to bigotry, I've had the sense that the right goes too far to pretend it doesn't exist anymore for minorities and the left pretends it never effects white people and, when it does, it's no big deal. They're both wrong.

However, saying all of that, the racism exists in GOP policies that they know effect minorities and they don't admit it. Bigotry is more associated with ignorant people of all lcolors.
 
jmotivator said:
Of course they do. Anyone who claims the superiority of their race above others is openly admitting their racism.
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Well, I could certainly be wrong, so can you show me an example of people referring to themselves as “racist?”
 
JC Callender said:
This issue is interesting to me because I've come to the conclusion that many if not most leftists believe that right-wingers are racist yet I never have conversations that have anything to do with racism with other right-wingers.
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Why would you? They don't call you on it.

Racism and Sexism are a lot like alcoholism or drug abuse. When you're hanging out with other alcoholics or drug abusers your abuse seems normal, and you tend to gang up on and attack those who are judging you as if they are the ones with the problem.

Like most alcoholics, racists and sexists struggle to admit they have the problem regardless of how obvious the signs are. They convince themselves they're in control of it, and that they can quit any time they want. They look to examples like that black friend they know the way that alcoholics point to the two days last week they didn't have a drink.

Racism and Sexism like most psychological problems inhabit your sub-conscience. You often don't even realize you have the issue because it's all you know and seems normal. It goes hand in hand with the cognitive dissonance that your ego uses to convince yourself that you're a better person than you are.

Most racism in today's world falls under what I would refer to as racial animosity or racial amplification. It's the idea that you may not directly hate a black person and would be willing to tolerate them being around so long as they remain in their place. So long as they are subordinate, agreeable, and conforming in every way you will tolerate them. But if they challenge you or your status in any way and try to act as if they are your equal or superior it makes you uncomfortable and messes with your view of your place in the world.

If a black person was your bartender, waitress or janitor it wouldn't particularly bother you at all, but if they're promoted overtop of you, drive a nicer car than you, own a home in your exclusive neighborhood, or worst of all get themselves elected President of the United States then all of sudden your world feels out of place. You have to convince yourself that they somehow cheated in order to get ahead of you because you can't admit to yourself that they might actually just be better or smarter than you.

Most white people can admit to themselves that black people are bigger, faster, stronger than them by nature, but they need to convince themselves that it's white people who have the brains and the leadership skills that make up for it. When a black person challenges that belief many white people struggle with it, and simply cannot accept it.
 
MrWonka said:
Racism and Sexism are a lot like alcoholism or drug abuse.
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False equivalency. There is nothing wrong with either racism or sexism.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
That requires explanation.
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No it doesn't. I think racism and sexism are perfectly fine and that's all you need to know. I don't need to explain anything to anybody.

You can disagree with me, but that's a different topic altogether.
 
Wan said:
No it doesn't. I think racism and sexism are perfectly fine and that's all you need to know. I don't need to explain anything to anybody.

You can disagree with me, but that's a different topic altogether.
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"harming humans is perfectly fine".
There are all sorts of implications for people who hold to such ideas.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
"harming humans is perfectly fine".
There are all sorts of implications for people who hold to such ideas.
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Having racist beliefs does not invariably lead to the harming of others.
 
Wan said:
Having racist beliefs does not invariably lead to the harming of others.
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but it can and often does....and...you are explaining...after absolutely refusing. Lots of absolutes flying around.
 
Wan said:
...Do you have any proof that "racists" call the 911 when they see a black person taking a walk?

...If a white politician is doing something that can be construed as suspicious, I am sure he would get dialed, too. Heck, white people get reported to the police everyday...

...Being a racist is not a crime...
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Racism is rarely something that's 'proven'. It was much easier to spot back in the day when it was socially acceptable for whites to be blatant racists. But now that polite society has evolved to the point where it's not acceptable, do you believe the millions who were raised by their racist parents all of a sudden became colorblind?

Do you need proof that KKK members are motivated by racism? Do you need proof that crooks are greedy when they rob banks? Do you need proof that perverts feel power or lust when they grab a woman's genitalia? Do you need proof that racists propose segregation?

You're right, racism is not a crime, neither is sexism, stereotyping or bigotry, yet millions are perfectly ok with these traits and their results. Being the victim of them, again and again is all the proof the rest us need...
 
Gimmesometruth said:
but it can and often does
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"Often" is subjective. Besides, I am confident that today's white people have the ability to practice racism in a way that does not harm anybody. "Gentle racism", is what I will call it.

....and...you are explaining...after absolutely refusing. Lots of absolutes flying around.
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Indeed I refuse. Why should I have to explain myself to you?
 
SoCal said:
You're right, racism is not a crime, neither is sexism, stereotyping or bigotry, yet millions are perfectly ok with these traits and their results. Being the victim of them, again and again is all the proof the rest us need...
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There is nothing wrong with any of those things you mentioned. Also, if someone, presumably a minority, feels that they have been victimized, then maybe the next logical thing to do is to move as far away from the "evil white people" as possible. But they don't do that. Instead, they clamor to want to move right next to white people and live among them. Why?
 
Wan said:
"Often" is subjective.
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No, it has been objectively measured throughout world history.
Besides, I am confident that today's white people have the ability to practice racism in a way that does not harm anybody.
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No doubt, but then this is another absolute that has zero meaning.
"Gentle racism", is what I will call it.
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So far as you have explained your personal racism, it is again meaningless anecdotal nonsense mixed with serious denial of reality....which you are entirely free to entertain yourself (and others) with the absurdity of.


Indeed I refuse.
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um, that would be refused, which you have already flip-flopped on....YOU ARE explaining.
Why should I have to explain myself to you?
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News flash, you are, I have no idea why you are now after absolutely refusing to do so, perhaps it is what you truly do want to do even though you said you would not. I suspect this extends to other actions you say you have not engaged in.
 
Casca XV said:
  1. The Founding Fathers of Progressive Liberalism in America are FDR and Woodrow Wilson.
  2. FDR excluded Blacks from some of the New Deal benefits, appointed an active Klan member to SCOUS and refused to support anti-lynching laws. He also set up race based internment camps.
  3. As President Woodrow Wilson was the driving force in resurrecting the KKK, that had originally died out in the 1870’s.
  4. The KKK was the terrorist arm of the Democrat Party and every racist Govt. policy (Jim Crow, Segregation) came from them.
  5. President Eisenhower and VP Nixon tried to pass an African American Civil Rights Bill in before there was any political advantage. They were defeated by Democrats Lead by Senate Majority Leader LBJ.
  6. After that LBJ and the Democrat Party made a political calculation, and they started exploiting race from the opposite direction. They replaced the KKK with Leftist Poverty Pimps like Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson. The adopted the tactic of Racial Identity Politics over Traditional Racism.
  7. Racial Identity Politics is just as evil as Traditional Racism, and it has damaged America far more.
  8. The most common tactic of Racial Identity Politics is to constantly accuse political opponents of “Racism.”
  9. But the fact is: aside from the microscopic number of White Supremacists the only real racists in America today call themselves Progressive or Liberal.
  10. White Supremacists call themselves Right Wing and try to cling to the GOP because they have no place else to go. But the real Right Wing and the GOP have never claimed them.
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Holy crap! What an outrageous series of IGNORANT, empty-headed, right-wing talk-radio nonsense, half-truths and "factoids" aimed at a couple of familiar right wing narratitves: "Blame the Democrat(sic) Party" and "Liberals are the real racists!"

You can't post this kind of revisionist history outside of one of your comfortable right-wing echo chambers...and expect to get away with it. Let's get a few things straight, shall we?

1This is the premise of your entire argument, yet it's little more than blatant AHISTORISM. The FACT is that modern Liberalism in America dates back to the influential late-19th century writings of Lester Ward and Herbert Croly. You, of course, have obviously never heard of either of those two gentlemen; but you might at least recognize Croly for the publication he founded (i.e. The New Republic). Geez...Read a freaking book before posting this kind of nonsense again, please.

2For starters: (1) the New Deal was a compromise with southern segregationists (who were Democrats) who wanted the benefits for their white constituents, but insisted that it exclude domestic and agriculture laborers (who were predominantly African-American) from benefits. FDR didn't advocate to exclude minorities. It was a compromise with white conservatives from the south. (2) Hugo Black was a former(not active) KKK member, whose affiliation was not discovered until AFTER he was appointed. He is also one of the most liberal USSC justices in history who supported the New Deal and Brown v. Board in '54. (3) The Democratic Party of FDR was a tenuous coalition of Northern liberals (like FDR) and Southern whites. But FDR absolutely DID support anti-lynching laws. He just couldn't support the anti-lynching bill of '34 until AFTER the New Deal legislation was passed. Simply put, he needed southern Democratic votes for the New Deal. That was the politics of the day. (4) Yes, FDR did support Japanese interment camps...which remains a huge stain on his legacy.

3Wilson was NOT the "driving force" behind the resurrection of the KKK. That's just flat wrong. Wilson was certainly a virulent racist...even by the standards of his day. But he was NOT the "driving force" behind anything. The so-called "Second KKK" was resurrected by the film "Birth of a Nation". As ANY historian will tell you, Wilson was a southern segregationist, but he supported the idea of an active, progressive federal government. But to empty-headed republicans, all that really matters is that Wilson, the racist, was a member of the Democratic Party. That's the kind of half-truth or "factiod" that characterizes the anti-intellectualism of modern day conservatives.

4Again, this has NOTHING to do with "liberalism". The KKK was a CONSERVATIVE group, and the Democratic Party were the CONSERVATIVE party throughout the ENTIRE "Jim Crow" era. Put simply, if alive between 1870 and 1960, you would be a proud Democrat.

5This is just a moronic comment. First, Ike DID pass the Civil Rights Act of '57 as well as the Civil Rights Act of '60 (and VP Nixon had NOTHING to do with either one). But more importantly, LBJ voted FOR BOTH bills! But again, that the "beauty" of being a right winger these days: you don't have to accurate; you only have to BELIEVE it, right??! :roll:

....to be continued.....
 
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