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Butina Affidavit

Lutherf

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https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1080766/download

This is the document that details the reasoning behind the charges and it's a remarkably interesting read both for what it says and for what it doesn't say.

If the accusations in the Affidavit hold water, and I have little doubt that they do, this young lady was unquestionably acting as a Russian Agent. To call her a "spy" might be overreaching in the pulp novel sense but it does give the open minded reader a wonderfully laid out insight to the process of spying. The connections to Russian officials are there as are the methods used and the objectives of "recruiting" sources. "Client 1" was, if everything from the affidavit is true, being played by Butina and her handlers.

There is also a lot of discussion that substantiates claims of the Russian preference for a Republican win in 2016. While that preference wasn't necessarily in doubt it is interesting to see it laid out so explicitly. That being said, NOTHING in the affidavit suggests that the preference was for malign purposes. That brings us to what isn't in the affidavit.

There is nothing in the affidavit that suggests an attempt to influence the election. While that may have been part of another plan it was not part of THIS plan.

There is nothing indicating an attempt to "compromise" anyone. While there was quite a bit of discussion regarding establishing "back channels" all that discussion appears to be in the interests of facilitating diplomacy and shortcutting around established, cumbersome diplomatic channels. I will note that such shortcuts can and have been used to leverage recruits into nefarious acts. Such an objective was NOT disclosed in this document.

There is no indication that US political actors were seeking contact with Russia. This is important because the whole case against Trump was that he was the one seeking Russian support. That was in no way indicated in the affidavit.

There was no overt indication of animosity by Russia toward Clinton. The entire discussion seems to be with regard to how to deal with whichever party succeeded in the election. Logic would indicate that comparable approaches by Russia were also being made to Clinton associates and other candidates who were perceived as having a chance to win the election.

My personal conclusions from reading this document are that, in this case, Butina WAS acting as an agent of the Russian government. I suspect that she was knowingly engaged in creating a "contact list" for other agents to work. I do not, however, see any indication that Russia, Trump or any other involved parties were seeking to destabilize American institutions or to destabilize relations between the US and Russia or between the US and any other nation.
 
Let’s hope Moscow’s Bitch McFilibuster keeps the Senate in session during August, since our Nation’s rogue repubs are being severely out raised in dozens of at-risk House and Senate races, and to mention all state races.

Meanwhile, Korrupt Kavanaugh wants to complete the cover-up for trump, doing away with Mr. Mueller.
 
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1080766/download

This is the document that details the reasoning behind the charges and it's a remarkably interesting read both for what it says and for what it doesn't say.

If the accusations in the Affidavit hold water, and I have little doubt that they do, this young lady was unquestionably acting as a Russian Agent. To call her a "spy" might be overreaching in the pulp novel sense but it does give the open minded reader a wonderfully laid out insight to the process of spying. The connections to Russian officials are there as are the methods used and the objectives of "recruiting" sources. "Client 1" was, if everything from the affidavit is true, being played by Butina and her handlers.

There is also a lot of discussion that substantiates claims of the Russian preference for a Republican win in 2016. While that preference wasn't necessarily in doubt it is interesting to see it laid out so explicitly. That being said, NOTHING in the affidavit suggests that the preference was for malign purposes. That brings us to what isn't in the affidavit.

There is nothing in the affidavit that suggests an attempt to influence the election. While that may have been part of another plan it was not part of THIS plan.

There is nothing indicating an attempt to "compromise" anyone. While there was quite a bit of discussion regarding establishing "back channels" all that discussion appears to be in the interests of facilitating diplomacy and shortcutting around established, cumbersome diplomatic channels. I will note that such shortcuts can and have been used to leverage recruits into nefarious acts. Such an objective was NOT disclosed in this document.

There is no indication that US political actors were seeking contact with Russia. This is important because the whole case against Trump was that he was the one seeking Russian support. That was in no way indicated in the affidavit.

There was no overt indication of animosity by Russia toward Clinton. The entire discussion seems to be with regard to how to deal with whichever party succeeded in the election. Logic would indicate that comparable approaches by Russia were also being made to Clinton associates and other candidates who were perceived as having a chance to win the election.

My personal conclusions from reading this document are that, in this case, Butina WAS acting as an agent of the Russian government. I suspect that she was knowingly engaged in creating a "contact list" for other agents to work. I do not, however, see any indication that Russia, Trump or any other involved parties were seeking to destabilize American institutions or to destabilize relations between the US and Russia or between the US and any other nation.

And we shall wait and see who her contacts were, who she tried to influence.
 
I guess you want to focus on a dot and ignore all the other dots and connections.

Why did Trump hire Manafort who was a known Kremlin agent working in Ukraine?
 
Just to let y'all know, I'm much more inclined to reply to posters when I get an indication that they read the OP and the information which was the basis of the OP. The other thing that gets me to reply to a poster is when they express a well reasoned opinion that is based on something in the OP.

I generally don't reply much to wild speculation, opinion with next to no supporting evidence and generic rants.

Actually, that's not entirely true. I do reply to a lot of that stuff but my replies in such cases tend to be sarcastic and intended, primarily, to entertain myself and others who might appreciate that kind of thing.
 
Here is Maria Butina asking Trump a question straight from the Kremlin. And of course Trump, the Russian candidate, spews the lines that the Kremlin wants.



Keep living in denial.

I wonder if you will still remain in denial as Flynn and Cohen testify of Trump's Russian ambitions. I'm sure next will come "it's not illegal to want to make money is Russia."
 
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Butina was the assistant of Aleksandr Torshin -- a member of Russia's Federation Council (upper house), deputy governor of the Central Bank of Russia, and an alleged kingpin in the Rossiyskaya mafiya (Russian mafia).

A real life Boris and Natasha. Any American who couldn't sniff trouble emanating from these two characters must be totally (or willfully) obtuse.
 
I loved the paperwork that had the worst-done obfuscation I've ever seen. BUTINA had contact with POLITICAL PARTY 1 through GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION, etc.
 
gop — GRU — NRA
 
Butina was the assistant of Aleksandr Torshin -- a member of Russia's Federation Council (upper house), deputy governor of the Central Bank of Russia, and an alleged kingpin in the Rossiyskaya mafiya (Russian mafia).

A real life Boris and Natasha. Any American who couldn't sniff trouble emanating from these two characters must be totally (or willfully) obtuse.

Right, because you would have sniffed it out. :roll: After all, everyone with a Russian accent is working for the Kremlin. Sorta like every Muslim is a terrorist.
 
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1080766/download

This is the document that details the reasoning behind the charges and it's a remarkably interesting read both for what it says and for what it doesn't say.

If the accusations in the Affidavit hold water, and I have little doubt that they do, this young lady was unquestionably acting as a Russian Agent. To call her a "spy" might be overreaching in the pulp novel sense but it does give the open minded reader a wonderfully laid out insight to the process of spying. The connections to Russian officials are there as are the methods used and the objectives of "recruiting" sources. "Client 1" was, if everything from the affidavit is true, being played by Butina and her handlers.

There is also a lot of discussion that substantiates claims of the Russian preference for a Republican win in 2016. While that preference wasn't necessarily in doubt it is interesting to see it laid out so explicitly. That being said, NOTHING in the affidavit suggests that the preference was for malign purposes. That brings us to what isn't in the affidavit.

There is nothing in the affidavit that suggests an attempt to influence the election. While that may have been part of another plan it was not part of THIS plan.

There is nothing indicating an attempt to "compromise" anyone. While there was quite a bit of discussion regarding establishing "back channels" all that discussion appears to be in the interests of facilitating diplomacy and shortcutting around established, cumbersome diplomatic channels. I will note that such shortcuts can and have been used to leverage recruits into nefarious acts. Such an objective was NOT disclosed in this document.

There is no indication that US political actors were seeking contact with Russia. This is important because the whole case against Trump was that he was the one seeking Russian support. That was in no way indicated in the affidavit.

There was no overt indication of animosity by Russia toward Clinton. The entire discussion seems to be with regard to how to deal with whichever party succeeded in the election. Logic would indicate that comparable approaches by Russia were also being made to Clinton associates and other candidates who were perceived as having a chance to win the election.

My personal conclusions from reading this document are that, in this case, Butina WAS acting as an agent of the Russian government. I suspect that she was knowingly engaged in creating a "contact list" for other agents to work. I do not, however, see any indication that Russia, Trump or any other involved parties were seeking to destabilize American institutions or to destabilize relations between the US and Russia or between the US and any other nation.

If there was a reason they didn't want Hillary to win it was because she wanted a donation to her foundation for everything anyone would ask her for. Even the Russians have their limits when it comes to graft and are no doubt uncomfortable with the USA doing it. Look how much of a headache Uranium One is causing them after paying the foundation 150 mill or so. Even a murdering thug like Putin can blanch at corruption. I would like to see her offered immunity and find out who's paying who.
 
Here is Maria Butina asking Trump a question straight from the Kremlin. And of course Trump, the Russian candidate, spews the lines that the Kremlin wants.



Keep living in denial.

I wonder if you will still remain in denial as Flynn and Cohen testify of Trump's Russian ambitions. I'm sure next will come "it's not illegal to want to make money is Russia."


What was wrong with his answer? And try to be specific and not just spew liberal nonsense. Thanks.
 
Let’s hope Moscow’s Bitch McFilibuster keeps the Senate in session during August, since our Nation’s rogue repubs are being severely out raised in dozens of at-risk House and Senate races, and to mention all state races.

Meanwhile, Korrupt Kavanaugh wants to complete the cover-up for trump, doing away with Mr. Mueller.

What exactly does that word salad have to do with anything in the OP?
 
I guess you want to focus on a dot and ignore all the other dots and connections.

Why did Trump hire Manafort who was a known Kremlin agent working in Ukraine?

?? Did you even read it?
 
Butina was the assistant of Aleksandr Torshin -- a member of Russia's Federation Council (upper house), deputy governor of the Central Bank of Russia, and an alleged kingpin in the Rossiyskaya mafiya (Russian mafia).

A real life Boris and Natasha. Any American who couldn't sniff trouble emanating from these two characters must be totally (or willfully) obtuse.

Apparently no one did from the start of her 'mission' when she first made contact in 2013.
 
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1080766/download

This is the document that details the reasoning behind the charges and it's a remarkably interesting read both for what it says and for what it doesn't say.

If the accusations in the Affidavit hold water, and I have little doubt that they do, this young lady was unquestionably acting as a Russian Agent. To call her a "spy" might be overreaching in the pulp novel sense but it does give the open minded reader a wonderfully laid out insight to the process of spying. The connections to Russian officials are there as are the methods used and the objectives of "recruiting" sources. "Client 1" was, if everything from the affidavit is true, being played by Butina and her handlers.

There is also a lot of discussion that substantiates claims of the Russian preference for a Republican win in 2016. While that preference wasn't necessarily in doubt it is interesting to see it laid out so explicitly. That being said, NOTHING in the affidavit suggests that the preference was for malign purposes. That brings us to what isn't in the affidavit.

There is nothing in the affidavit that suggests an attempt to influence the election. While that may have been part of another plan it was not part of THIS plan.

There is nothing indicating an attempt to "compromise" anyone. While there was quite a bit of discussion regarding establishing "back channels" all that discussion appears to be in the interests of facilitating diplomacy and shortcutting around established, cumbersome diplomatic channels. I will note that such shortcuts can and have been used to leverage recruits into nefarious acts. Such an objective was NOT disclosed in this document.

There is no indication that US political actors were seeking contact with Russia. This is important because the whole case against Trump was that he was the one seeking Russian support. That was in no way indicated in the affidavit.

There was no overt indication of animosity by Russia toward Clinton. The entire discussion seems to be with regard to how to deal with whichever party succeeded in the election. Logic would indicate that comparable approaches by Russia were also being made to Clinton associates and other candidates who were perceived as having a chance to win the election.

My personal conclusions from reading this document are that, in this case, Butina WAS acting as an agent of the Russian government. I suspect that she was knowingly engaged in creating a "contact list" for other agents to work. I do not, however, see any indication that Russia, Trump or any other involved parties were seeking to destabilize American institutions or to destabilize relations between the US and Russia or between the US and any other nation.

Like most related things, I think it could seen as another effort by Russia to stir the American domestic political pot without partisan concern but what was presented was a little strange.
It's not clear what their ultimate goal was other than alter U.S. relations with Russia for Russian benefit.
As for Butina, the impression I got was that she was trying mightily to become a player in Russian operations and her Russian contacts were happy to help her.
I would like to see ALL her communications with her Russian contacts after November 2016.
 
Let's reverse it and put ourselves in Butina's place. Take yourselves to Russia and act as Butina did. Would you act as she did? If you did would you be surprised if you were followed and watched and eventually suspected of "foreign interference"?

Once during the Troubles I was taken aside at Heathrow and questioned about my mother's family and why I was traveling into England and out of Dublin and why on my previous trip I had rented a car and traveled north and spent a night at a pub in Enniskillen and why on this trip this I was taking the "cattle boat" over and on and on.

I get it. I didn't like it one feckin bit but I got it and I get it.

Let's say while on my trip over I had several contacts with known IRA. Let's suppose I stopped by Cork Sinn Féin and spent a couple of hours. Yada yada. Should I have suspected my pink Irish American ass might have raised red flags somewhere? You feckin A betcha!

Is it difficult to believe? No, not at all.

We have Butina coming to America in 2015, applying for a student Visa, and immediately or close to it making every attempt to climb the power ladder in DC. Red flags? You feckin-A betcha again.

Risky's Assessment of Dumbassery No. 1226 : Either Maria Butina is dumber than catfish bait or she is an amateur spy who was taken advantage of by Russian intelligence.
 
What was wrong with his answer? And try to be specific and not just spew liberal nonsense. Thanks.
Other than not actually answering the question, you mean?
 
No, she's not a spy. As you said, that word is passé. She is just a foreign agent working to influence the powerful in a competing country, for the benefit of a long-time enemy of that country. We can avoid unpleasant words like "spy" by admitting that the world's fascists, like Trump and Putin, don't care about people so the borders between them and any perceived principles are irrelevant. Spying is just business as usual for the self interested. They aren't acting against America, per se, they are acting FOR money and power. After all, this is really a form of globalism they aspire to with money rather than human concerns being the measure of success. The word "fascism" also has unpleasant undertones so that word too has been muddied by improper use by conservatives, using it to describe fanatic muslims and authoritarian lefties too. By creating that ambiguity about words, they obscure the facts in bull****.

I think the rich and powerful long ago realized that you defeat negative labels not by changing the behavior that earned the label to begin with but by re-defining the actions instead. We are expected to treat greed like the fires of a blessing engine, now, rather than the destroyer and consumer of lives. Fascism is an ugly, old word that no longer serves our "evolved" morality.

This train runs on cash, people, and no matter how dirty we demonstrate it to be, it's the only fuel the right wing will ever entertain.
 
Let's reverse it and put ourselves in Butina's place. Take yourselves to Russia and act as Butina did. Would you act as she did? If you did would you be surprised if you were followed and watched and eventually suspected of "foreign interference"?

Once during the Troubles I was taken aside at Heathrow and questioned about my mother's family and why I was traveling into England and out of Dublin and why on my previous trip I had rented a car and traveled north and spent a night at a pub in Enniskillen and why on this trip this I was taking the "cattle boat" over and on and on.

I get it. I didn't like it one feckin bit but I got it and I get it.

Let's say while on my trip over I had several contacts with known IRA. Let's suppose I stopped by Cork Sinn Féin and spent a couple of hours. Yada yada. Should I have suspected my pink Irish American ass might have raised red flags somewhere? You feckin A betcha!

Is it difficult to believe? No, not at all.

We have Butina coming to America in 2015, applying for a student Visa, and immediately or close to it making every attempt to climb the power ladder in DC. Red flags? You feckin-A betcha again.

Risky's Assessment of Dumbassery No. 1226 : Either Maria Butina is dumber than catfish bait or she is an amateur spy who was taken advantage of by Russian intelligence.

To add: Butina would have had to have been a rank amateur spy to have not known she was flagged by counterintelligence in the US. Here a short time and pushing her way toward power in DC, I’d say her ignorance may be in her favor. And then maybe not. She’d have to know they would be on her like white on rice.

I was pulled aside and talked to decades ago at Heathrow because of my mother’s maiden name, the fact that I was wearing a Claddagh ring and maybe because I spent the night in Enniskillen on my previous trip.

I didn’t/don’t know anyone with the IRA but I’d have been an idiot to meet anyone after the reception I got at Heathrow. My heritage was the only reason I was given a second glance.

Butina should have known and expected much more because she is Russian and because of her behavior. It is logical.

On the other hand things she did raised red flags, and should have. Some of it doesn’t make good sense. All of her actions were not necessarily innocent. Apparently counterintelligence followed up on her and they found not one bad thing but many.

The process will determine who or what she really is.
 
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