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Is Trump a Russian asset, "useful idiot"?

Amelia said:
:lamo
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I encourage you to pay better attention to reality, that so few Americans understand power even to the point of not knowing that the dynamics of power and the skills to deploy them are a real thing has a lot do do with why America is melting down.

Ignorance tends to cost big, and when it is willful as so much of American Ignorance is now it is almost enough to make me cry.

We should have been better than this, because we used to be better than this.




EDIT: There is some famous quote that I forget about what we dont know is real can be easily used against us by our betters...this is what happened to America especially around the issue of power that has been so damaging. Our ignorance on class in America I argue is also a huge part of the meltdown, that we let income inequality and class inequality get so bad that the leaders ended up losing their followers.
 
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"Is Trump a Russian asset, "useful idiot"?

AbsaLutely!

tRump is Putin's KGBFF!
 
What's Trump going to do, say "Damn you Putin, you exposed some ****ty things about Hillary while she was in the middle of screwing over Bernie...I'll never forgive you!!!". Come on guys, wtf. :roll:
 
OscarLevant said:
Michael Hayden, former director of both the National Security Agency and the CIA, described Trump as a "useful fool, some naif, manipulated by Moscow, secretly held in contempt, but whose blind support is happily accepted and exploited."

Your thoughts?
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Used to be he was treated as a regular, garden variety idiot. And because much of our media and many of those who consume their product are themselves idiots it was fun and novel! Even cute. What great television.

But destroying our military and economic alliances and surrendering to Russia on live television is not cute and it's not the work of an ordinary idiot.
 
OscarLevant said:
Michael Hayden, former director of both the National Security Agency and the CIA, described Trump as a "useful fool, some naif, manipulated by Moscow, secretly held in contempt, but whose blind support is happily accepted and exploited."

Your thoughts?
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Let's take the question in its two parts. First, is he useful and if so, to who?

Well he's definitely useful to conservatives and the Repub Party. No one can boil down a simple message of fear and hate better the Don. And that's just the way the Repub Party likes to keep it, short and simple. For example, lUSA-USA-USA, Make America Great Again, My Country Right Or Wrong, Blood and Soil, Jews Will Not Replace Us.

And why do they keep it that way? It all boils down to the needs of its base, the rank and file just don't do nuance, it has to be kept simple for it to sink in. As far as Trump having the ability to communicate in any other way? See the second part below.

Useful to Putin? Anyone who watched the spectacle of that news conference and the smirk on Putin's face knows the answer to that.

Secondly, is he an idiot?

Trump doesn't think so and he'll tell you, "I'm, like, a really smart person" or "I'm a very stable genius" (his base probably doesn't know that smart people don't say things like that).

You could spend hours reading all the dumb quotes documented on the web, or you could listen to the opinions of his coworkers and associates who've worked with him and quit.

But really, how smart can someone possibly be who tosses aside the daily report his intelligence services provides, nor have the skill to read and comprehend them, in order to have enough time for his daily security briefing Hannity and Fox News gives him?

Hawkeye10 said:
Putin is an Abnormally bright guy, especially compared to Americans, Which has a lot to do with why our Geniuses keep being wrong about him.
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America is better and smarter place than you give us credit for. We just don't have many bright guys running the government right now.

We'll smarten up...
 
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SoCal said:
Let's take the question in its two parts. First, is he useful and if so, to who?

Well he's definitely useful to conservatives and the Repub Party. No one can boil down a simple message of fear and hate better the Don. And that's just the way the Repub Party likes to keep it, short and simple. For example, lUSA-USA-USA, Make America Great Again, My Country Right Or Wrong, Blood and Soil, Jews Will Not Replace Us.

And why do they keep it that way? It all boils down to the needs of its base, the rank and file just don't do nuance, it has to be kept simple for it to sink in. As far as Trump having the ability to communicate in any other way? See the second part below.

Useful to Putin? Anyone who watched the spectacle of that news conference and the smirk on Putin's face knows the answer to that.

Secondly, is he an idiot?

Trump doesn't think so and he'll tell you, "I'm, like, a really smart person" or "I'm a very stable genius" (his base probably doesn't know that smart people don't say things like that).

You could spend hours reading all the dumb quotes documented on the web, or you could listen to the opinions of his coworkers and associates who've worked with him and quit.

But really, how smart can someone possibly be who tosses aside the daily report his intelligence services provides, nor have the skill to read and comprehend them, in order to have enough time for his daily security briefing Hannity and Fox News gives him.



America is better and smarter place than you give us credit for. We just don't have many bright guys running the government right now.

We'll smarten up...
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The phrase "useful idiot" is a Russian asset classification, and I was seeking answers to the question in that context. Because none of us on this forum are members of FSB or GRU it would be difficult to get the precise answer so we will just have to think vicariously.

I just assumed everyone was familiar with it
 
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OscarLevant said:
The phrase "useful idiot" is a Russian asset classification, and I was seeking answers to the question in that context. Because none of us on this forum are members of FSB or GRU it would be difficult to get the precise answer so we will just have to think vicariously.

I just assumed everyone was familiar with it
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Short answer? Yes...
 
hanger4 said:
All Jason Easley did was explain to you how President Obama had no cajones to stand up for what he thought was in the best interest of the US. The only reason Obama wanted some support was to CHA
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No. The idea was to keep away from giving the impression that Obama and his administration were trying to help Clinton win, to take information from non-partisan Intel Agencies and present it to the American people in a way that could not be construed as partisan.

Why did McConnnell refuse??? Answer - he's a party first hack. He always has been.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
A man with Putin's cloak and dagger credentials does not have "admiration" for someone who can manage to "fail upward" as a master con man.
Putin respects him the way you or I would "respect" a disposable tool, use it till it breaks and then throw it away.
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Putin and Donny have one big thing in common - they are binary thinkers when it comes to interpersonal and business relations. There is is a bit of a difference when it comes to multinational policy, however. Putin can work with multiple allies, while Trump cannot. For Trump, no deal can advance beyond bilateral (binary), and he must win while the other guy loses.

I remain amazed by Trump. He has to be a master con man, but he looks and sounds like a slimy idiot to me. I've met REAL used car salesmen who were far more slick than he is. How does he manage this slavish devotion from people he does nothing for? If it boils down to only "he ticks of libs", the followers are real dimwits.

Right now Trump is helping Putin undermine Western Democracy as a concept, and it seems the Republican party is almost completely willing to go there.

I'll repeat, I don't get it unless you're independently wealthy or a deluded evangelical, and you really don't give a crap about anyone else Trump is doing a lot of damage.

How Christian.:shock:
 
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<alt>doxygen said:
No. The idea was to keep away from giving the impression that Obama and his administration were trying to help Clinton win, to take information from non-partisan Intel Agencies and present it to the American people in a way that could not be construed as partisan.

Why did McConnnell refuse??? Answer - he's a party first hack. He always has been.
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*“We urge the states to take full advantage of the robust public and private sector resources available to them to ensure that their network infrastructure is secure from attack,” House Speaker Paul Ryan, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid"

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/cyberattack-elections-states-congress-228890

Letter sent as asked and help to cover Obama's arse denied.
 
Well Trump just threw another hand grenade, this time into what is something of a last ditch effort to protect the mid-term elections sponsored by Congress and US Intel.

At the end of the Wednesday press splash Trump was asked if Russia is still meddling in US elections. Trump's answer: NO

For a guy that has well earned the nickname, Corporal Bone Spurs, Trump sure likes lobbing hand grenades.
 
Russia's Defense Ministry on Tuesday said it stands ready to step up cooperation with the U.S. on international security matters outlined by President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin at their Monday summit in Helsinki.

"The Russian Defense Ministry is ready for practical implementation of the agreements in the sphere of international security reached by Russian and U.S. Presidents, Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump, at their Monday’s summit in Helsinki," Igor Konashenkov, a spokesman for the ministry said, according to the Russian state-run news agency TASS.

WHAT AGREEMENTS???? We have nothing from our President about what he agreed to in Helsinki. That said, this might just be one of the best indications we have gotten of Trump/Putin political cooperation since the election.

We know Trump loves nebulous nonsense so that he can declare a victory whatever actually happens. So here, the Kremlin is announcing it is ready to move forward. Move forward on what. What nebulous nonsense is this? We have never had a circumstance before described by the Soviet or Russian leader announcing preparedness to move on something apparently agreed to for which we have no information.
 
hanger4 said:
*“We urge the states to take full advantage of the robust public and private sector resources available to them to ensure that their network infrastructure is secure from attack,” House Speaker Paul Ryan, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid"

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/cyberattack-elections-states-congress-228890

Letter sent as asked and help to cover Obama's arse denied.
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That was a deflection. The attack had already occurred and was ongoing. Whatever "robust" defenses were available had already failed. That statement was issued with 1 month to go before the election.

No mention of Russia. I wonder why? Maybe look at the changes the Trumpies made for Putin in the GOP platform. Why?

And now no "defenses" have been improved by the GOP (they control everything) and the attacks are happening again. The conclusion is that the GOP likes working with authoritarians like Putin. Tisk, tisk...
 
OscarLevant said:
Michael Hayden, former director of both the National Security Agency and the CIA, described Trump as a "useful fool, some naif, manipulated by Moscow, secretly held in contempt, but whose blind support is happily accepted and exploited."

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Putin has the goods on him, Trump is willing to sell out his country just to not be embarassed by what Putin has.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
That was a deflection. The attack had already occurred and was ongoing. Whatever "robust" defenses were available had already failed. That statement was issued with 1 month to go before the election.

No mention of Russia. I wonder why? Maybe look at the changes the Trumpies made for Putin in the GOP platform. Why?

And now no "defenses" have been improved by the GOP (they control everything) and the attacks are happening again. The conclusion is that the GOP likes working with authoritarians like Putin. Tisk, tisk...
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*The attack had already occurred and was ongoing. Whatever "robust" defenses were available had already failed.*

Exactly, BHO wanted bipartisan cover, it was denied.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
Right now Trump is helping Putin undermine Western Democracy as a concept, and it seems the Republican party is almost completely willing to go there.

I'll repeat, I don't get it unless you're independently wealthy or a deluded evangelical, and you really don't give a crap about anyone else Trump is doing a lot of damage.

How Christian.:shock:
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That's pretty much the core of the Russian problem.
Not hacking into servers, not stealing emails, not illicit oppo info, just simple plain destruction of the fabric of Western democracy itself.
If you have two families (A & B) on the same block who are related but who sometimes don't get along, and a third "interloper" family (Family C- the "Russians") infiltrates into both those families and sows discord to the point where the two families are ready to go to blows, that's the analogy.

Someone from the interloper family (C) might steal a hedge clipper from Family A, and blame it on Family B, then turn around and poison Family B's dog and blame it on Family A. Then later, Family C starts spreading vicious rumors about Family A and blames it on Family B, and so on and so on and so on ad nauseum.
But it all starts with Family C introducing Family B to a con artist who ripped them off first, and that con artist marries into Family B, and he's secretly getting help from Family C in sowing discord between the two families.

Western democracy is anathema to Dominionist evangelicals, and the ultra wealthy don't much care if democracy goes away, because it's an inconvenience for them. For them, fascism, even as a theocratic dictatorship, is just fine because they aren't affected by the risks and consequences.

For today's Republicans, democracy consists of having to live alongside people who don't agree with their agenda, people who don't respect one party rule.
 
jnug said:
Russia's Defense Ministry on Tuesday said it stands ready to step up cooperation with the U.S. on international security matters outlined by President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin at their Monday summit in Helsinki.

"The Russian Defense Ministry is ready for practical implementation of the agreements in the sphere of international security reached by Russian and U.S. Presidents, Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump, at their Monday’s summit in Helsinki," Igor Konashenkov, a spokesman for the ministry said, according to the Russian state-run news agency TASS.

WHAT AGREEMENTS???? We have nothing from our President about what he agreed to in Helsinki. That said, this might just be one of the best indications we have gotten of Trump/Putin political cooperation since the election.

We know Trump loves nebulous nonsense so that he can declare a victory whatever actually happens. So here, the Kremlin is announcing it is ready to move forward. Move forward on what. What nebulous nonsense is this? We have never had a circumstance before described by the Soviet or Russian leader announcing preparedness to move on something apparently agreed to for which we have no information.
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Uh ohhh, now comes "the cooperation".
Beware the cooperation.
 
imagep said:
Pretty much. What amazes me is that so few conservatives have caught onto this.
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How funny that people think that Obama "let it happen".
So, we're going to just ignore the McConnellism, right?
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
How funny that people think that Obama "let it happen".
So, we're going to just ignore the McConnellism, right?
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McConnell is a snake. His disloyalty to the U.S. in 2016 is disgusting and should go down as one of the worst episodes of treachery in American history. No doubt.

But Obama's infatuation with his own "post-partisan" brand is not above reproach. At some damn point country has to come first. If the GOP is selling out the country, you have to point it out even if someone accuses you of partisanship.
 
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