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The Helsinki Summit was a total DISASTER!

Grand Mal said:
uh, wot? What am I sure of?
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Let's see, was Canada at the summit? No, because you haven't earned your big boy pants yet. Have a nice day.
 
LowDown said:
Why do you think it was a disaster?

It was certainly a disaster for a certain Euroweenie way of thinking about the world, that's for sure. To hear them talk about it they spend more on social services because they're so virtuous. The US has nothing to do with it by their reckoning.
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Just like our President, this makes no sense.
 
American said:
Let's see, was Canada at the summit? No, because you haven't earned your big boy pants yet. Have a nice day.
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Just like our President, your comment is completely irrelevant...
 
So the big Right wing narrative so far regarding Helsinki is the "missed opportunity" narrative. CowDung!!

There were two parts to this disaster. Yes, Trump missed an opportunity to confront the monster Putin regarding Election Interference and a whole host of things but mainly Election Interference.

However that does not explain Trump trashing his own Government on the world stage in an event built around meeting another head of state when Trump is supposed to be representing his government, our government, the United States of America.

So sorry Fox News, the "missed opportunity" narrative is not going to get it done and well it should not! You could literally hear Trump's Presidency ripping right down the middle. Frankly at this point all he can do is stop the ripping. There is no repairing the damage he has already done no matter what he says. You can't unsay what was said on that world stage and you can't un-hear it. The very best Trump gets out of this is Americans understanding that this man should never have been elected to the high office he now holds. That is the best he gets. There is a worst he gets as well. What he does in the next 12 hours will only effect the worst he might get out of this mess.
 
Chomsky said:
Well said!

"Careful with the axe, Eugene" - Roger Waters
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I have always been critical of his bluster. Sometimes it is good when it is used for specific reasons, but not all the time.
Now it is starting to bite him in the rear end.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Trump's treasonous performance and most of the GOP's silence shows there is no longer any doubt that the GOP is all about 'Party before Country'.

The GOP has been infected with racists, traitors and far right social conservatives who will do anything to hold onto power, including weakening their own country.

What Trump did this week in Europe will take a generation to fix, but the fixing can't start until the GOP is voted out, EVERYWHERE!! The moderates and Indy's better wake up in November and vote the GOP out, or this country may never recover.
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Don't know what treason is do you?

I would say calling for the military via coup is more treasonous than what trump said.
 
jnug said:
So the big Right wing narrative so far regarding Helsinki is the "missed opportunity" narrative. CowDung!!

There were two parts to this disaster. Yes, Trump missed an opportunity to confront the monster Putin regarding Election Interference and a whole host of things but mainly Election Interference.

However that does not explain Trump trashing his own Government on the world stage in an event built around meeting another head of state when Trump is supposed to be representing his government, our government, the United States of America.

So sorry Fox News, the "missed opportunity" narrative is not going to get it done and well it should not! You could literally hear Trump's Presidency ripping right down the middle. Frankly at this point all he can do is stop the ripping. There is no repairing the damage he has already done no matter what he says. You can't unsay what was said on that world stage and you can't un-hear it. The very best Trump gets out of this is Americans understanding that this man should never have been elected to the high office he now holds. That is the best he gets. There is a worst he gets as well. What he does in the next 12 hours will only effect the worst he might get out of this mess.
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Yep what trump did was bad. then again obama did the same thing and liberals stood up and defended it.
rose color glasses i guess.
 
Chomsky said:
I got so in the mood, I just had to toss-on "Meddle". And damn, it's good!
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D
Rodger Waters live is the best show you will ever see
He just did four nights in Amsterdam, man I wish I had been there...
 
ludin said:
Yep what trump did was bad. then again obama did the same thing and liberals stood up and defended it.
rose color glasses i guess.
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What are you referring to exactly as it relates to Obama?

I remember things I did not like that Obama said on the world stage and anybody that has read my posts knows that I rate Bush Jr, Obama and Trump the worst three Presidents of the modern era each in turn worse than his predecessor. But I don't remember Obama getting anywhere within range of where Trump was yesterday, not even close. These whataboutism false narratives are just that. This is one heck of a day to pull out whataboutism especially when you cannot quote or refer directly to what you are criticizing from Obama. Won't cut it.

Yesterday was the worst day of the Modern US Presidency ever atop the worst week of the modern Presidency since the week that culminated in Nixon's Saturday Night Massacre.
 
jnug said:
What are you referring to exactly as it relates to Obama?

I remember things I did not like that Obama said on the world stage and anybody that has read my posts knows that I rate Bush Jr, Obama and Trump the worst tree Presidents of the modern ear each in turn worst than his predecessor. But I don't remember Obama getting anywhere within range of where Trump was yesterday, not even close. These whataboutism false narratives are just that. This is one heck of a day to pull out whataboutism especially when you cannot quote or refer directly to what you are criticizing from Obama. Won't cut it.

Yesterday was the worst day of the Modern US Presidency ever atop the worst week of the modern Presidency since the week that culminated in Nixon's Saturday Night Massacre.
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Obama apology tour that he took when he first came into office was just about as low brow and anti-american as trump was the other day.
They are about on the same level.

You have to remember also that the media had their head so far up obama's ass they were looking out his mouth.
 
ludin said:
Obama apology tour that he took when he first came into office was just about as low brow and anti-american as trump was the other day.
They are about on the same level.

You have to remember also that the media had their head so far up obama's ass they were looking out his mouth.
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Again, a direct reference please. This is no time for wishy washy Internet horse bleep.
 
Linc said:
Squishy Invertebrate Demwits are already ceding the high ground, listening to isolationists like the Paul’s. The Paul’s have always been against World War Two and support traitors.

gops will continue their Lee Atwater-izing of any DEM who dares to speak in the USSA. Any real DEM who thinks they won anything today is a far greater fool than 0045.

It’s still about McConnellism folks.
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I can't force good democrats to organize the way the anti-abortion and other ultra conservative groups have. I can't force democrat voters to be as blindly loyal and obedient as Republicans have this cycle. Obviously Mitch outplays people in politics, and the damage to the courts is well known, and has been on the radar for some time. We get to elect people periodically, that's our "big weapon" against it. I'm not sure what other implication you make with regards to how to curb it.
 
Mach said:
I can't force good democrats to organize the way the anti-abortion and other ultra conservative groups have. I can't force democrat voters to be as blindly loyal and obedient as Republicans have this cycle. Obviously Mitch outplays people in politics, and the damage to the courts is well known, and has been on the radar for some time. We get to elect people periodically, that's our "big weapon" against it. I'm not sure what other implication you make with regards to how to curb it.
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As I read the Cedar Rapids Gazette this AM, neither Iowa Senator, Ernst or Grassley, will criticize Corporal Cadet. They are worthless representing Iowa, either in foreign policy but especially with trump/gop tariffs.

A local gop Reagan repub quit the gop today. These are the types of folks in your Texas we must appeal to, the Conor Lambs of the world. That type would represent my type of farmers-in-law. They are waiting for a coherent message from Dems.

The 14 CDs in Texas that went for Clinton severely underperformed the 24 that went for trump; same in Arizona and really across the Nation. This pathetically low voter turnout has given us this gop trifecta since REDMAP 2010. Good luck on Texas GOTV and giving us Sen. O’Rourke.
 
ludin said:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/23/cal-thomas-obama-apology-tour-comes-full-circle-in/
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Bad move by Obama. But he was stuck trying to explain why Bush threw a hand grenade into the middle east dragging Europe into it with not more than an excuse me though it was Europe that was much affected by said hand grenade. Again, our military action in Iraq was the worst US decision regarding significant military action since Vietnam and we stuck Europe with supporting us in it effectively asking them to slit their own throats.

Plus Obama was speaking before a town hall meeting in Europe discussing issue of broad US policy. He was not standing next to another head of state as part of a head of state meeting between the two leaders of their perspective countries. Nor did Obama pick on specific elements of the US government and denigrate them in front of the entire world in that setting. Wrong but just not even in the same stratosphere of what Trump did on Monday following a disastrous week for a US President. Bush Jr, the start of the worse run of US Presidents in the modern era. We would have to elect Humpty Dumpty next to continue on that trend line.

Your attempt at an Obama equivalency is not even close. Its not even close to close.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Trump has done his job very well.
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For Master Putin, yes. Make enemies of our allies, coddle up to the commies. Putin is very happy with Trump's performance.
 
American said:
Let's see, was Canada at the summit? No, because you haven't earned your big boy pants yet. Have a nice day.
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Having a late night? Or getting an early start?
 
holbritter said:
I disagree. We are not weak. Our leader may be, but we are not.
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Well, then 40% of the country and the controlling government is weak. Because that's who fall-in behind this policy.
 
OscarLevant said:
Who disagrees?

Is your head in the sand?

This is a no brainer.
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I assumed it would be a typical Trump bull**** sideshow with nothing accomplished and the usual empty Trumpy rhetoric. He almost never surprises me in just how bad he is at diplomacy, intelligent communication, and "presidenting" in general.

Yesterday he surprised me.
 
ludin said:
I have always been critical of his bluster. Sometimes it is good when it is used for specific reasons, but not all the time.
Now it is starting to bite him in the rear end.
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Yeah, but Congress and his base never seem to waver. Trump enjoys among the very highest support within his party, as any modern day President.

The only political question then becomes:

"Do these things further activate the Dem base, and do these things sway the Indies?"

The answers to these two questions above will determine the future of Trump's Presidency, because his Presidency will be forever changed with a Dem House.
 
Chomsky said:
Yeah, but Congress and his base never seem to waver. Trump enjoys among the very highest support within his party, as any modern day President.

The only political question then becomes:

"Do these things further activate the Dem base, and do these things sway the Indies?"

The answers to these two questions above will determine the future of Trump's Presidency, because his Presidency will be forever changed with a Dem House.
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Other than hate trump the democratic party doesn't have a message.
THey are completely disorganized.

Trump has a 50% approval rating on the economy.
he has a 43.1% approval rating overall.

You can't mount a challenge or just moral outrage.
It is not sustaining.

That right now is the main problem with the democrats.
I see a split congress like with obama.

Republican house democrat senate etc ...
 
ludin said:
Other than hate trump the democratic party doesn't have a message.
THey are completely disorganized.

Trump has a 50% approval rating on the economy.
he has a 43.1% approval rating overall.

You can't mount a challenge or just moral outrage.
It is not sustaining.

That right now is the main problem with the democrats.
I see a split congress like with obama.

Republican house democrat senate etc ...
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I agree, too a point.

Where I agree, is in the Dems not having a message.

Where I disagree, is in the specific application. Midterms are low volume events highly dependent upon base turn-out. I'd argue that fear & anger are good motivators for this type of low volume base-dependent elections.

In further support of anger being a positive force in driving the electorate, I'd argue that anger over Washington Status Quo is in large part what brought Trump to the Presidency itself - and that was a Presidential election! Now, it's the Dems that are angry & shut-out. In a mid-term.

However as to the 2020 Presidential election, you are right: the Dems need a message. But for the midterms, I suspect anger motivating the base may indeed carry the day.

One more item as to why I believe the Dems may prevail in gaining the House in November. The Generic Congressional Ballot has floated back up to a 8-9 pt Dem advantage, after having earlier in the year collapsed to 3-1/2. But more importantly, the Dems seem to be enjoying a wide (voting) enthusiasm gap to their advantage. I have not seen a recent enthusiasm poll that shows the Dems less than double digits above the GOP, and some polls are pushing near 20 pts in differential. If accurate, this is huge. Really huge. It historically has been the Repubs having a solid enthusiasm lead in midterms, never less than a solid 7-8 pts or more, so something has definitely shifted in this specific election cycle.

Due to the GOP positive effects of gerrymandering, lay of the land, and voter suppression, I was calling this election as the Dems being only slightly likely to take the House, or if not come close to it. I'm still sticking to this call as the Dem minimum performance, but now due to the numbers I presented in the paragraph above, I'm leaving open the possibility of a significant Blue Wave (maybe 35-40 seats or more). I'm not outright predicting a wave, but I will not be at all surprised if one occurs. And I now think a wave is more likely than it was several months ago.
 
Ikari said:
For Master Putin, yes. Make enemies of our allies, coddle up to the commies. Putin is very happy with Trump's performance.
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I bet he is! But see I dont let Putin do my deciding for me, him being happy does not mean that I must be unhappy.
 
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