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Why is the GOP so afraid of Putin?

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independentusa

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We now have GOPers coming out and saying that what the Russian's did to our election is nothing new and we should just move on and drop the whole investigation. I thought this was all about saving Trump, but now I wonder after learning that the Russian'a not only hacked the Dem, they also hacked the RNC. So what info did the Russian's get from that hack and are they using it against the GOP. And even more interesting is the fact that many of the GOP candidates in the 2016 election got Russian money passed to them from intermediaries like the NRA and so called Americans with dual citizenship, i.e., American/Russian.. So it makes me wonder just what the Russian's and Putin have on members of the GOP and is this, even more than their desire to protect Trump, why they are pushing so hard to end an investigation that might lead back to some of the GOP members.
 
independentusa said:
We now have GOPers coming out and saying that what the Russian's did to our election is nothing new and we should just move on and drop the whole investigation. I thought this was all about saving Trump, but now I wonder after learning that the Russian'a not only hacked the Dem, they also hacked the RNC. So what info did the Russian's get from that hack and are they using it against the GOP. And even more interesting is the fact that many of the GOP candidates in the 2016 election got Russian money passed to them from intermediaries like the NRA and so called Americans with dual citizenship, i.e., American/Russian.. So it makes me wonder just what the Russian's and Putin have on members of the GOP and is this, even more than their desire to protect Trump, why they are pushing so hard to end an investigation that might lead back to some of the GOP members.
Click to expand...

two simple words: SELF PRESERVATION.

They know that if they turn on Trump because of his criminal collusion with Russia, the Trumpkins will turn on them and their own sorry asses are at risk.

Its that simple.
 
independentusa said:
We now have GOPers coming out and saying that what the Russian's did to our election is nothing new and we should just move on and drop the whole investigation.
Click to expand...

The truth is -- it isn't a new development. The US, Russia, and many other nations do it all the time. The hacking, however, is troublesome because that's a crime.


I thought this was all about saving Trump, but now I wonder after learning that the Russian'a not only hacked the Dem, they also hacked the RNC.
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For me, it's not so much about "saving Trump" as it is about restoring sanity. It there was a crime and it can be shown, by all means -- show it. But, just saying that "the Russians influenced the election" isn't really productive because influencing isn't a crime.

So what info did the Russian's get from that hack and are they using it against the GOP. And even more interesting is the fact that many of the GOP candidates in the 2016 election got Russian money passed to them from intermediaries like the NRA and so called Americans with dual citizenship, i.e., American/Russian.. So it makes me wonder just what the Russian's and Putin have on members of the GOP and is this, even more than their desire to protect Trump, why they are pushing so hard to end an investigation that might lead back to some of the GOP members.
Click to expand...

At this point, this thread should probably be relocated to the Conspiracy Theory forum. The GOP is just as interested as the Democrats in uncovering wrongdoing, but so far, we have no links to wrongdoing that is associated with Trump and collusion.

Your theory is interesting and a bit off the wall, but it's highly unlikely, given the amount of people that would have to be involved and the fact that the GOP has never been a big supporter of Russia.
 
independentusa said:
We now have GOPers coming out and saying that what the Russian's did to our election is nothing new and we should just move on and drop the whole investigation. I thought this was all about saving Trump, but now I wonder after learning that the Russian'a not only hacked the Dem, they also hacked the RNC. So what info did the Russian's get from that hack and are they using it against the GOP. And even more interesting is the fact that many of the GOP candidates in the 2016 election got Russian money passed to them from intermediaries like the NRA and so called Americans with dual citizenship, i.e., American/Russian.. So it makes me wonder just what the Russian's and Putin have on members of the GOP and is this, even more than their desire to protect Trump, why they are pushing so hard to end an investigation that might lead back to some of the GOP members.
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It’ll take a longer post than I want to make on my phone (and I want to watch the World Cup final anyway) so I’ll re-engage. Suffice it to say that Putin has long had some allure with certain segments of the population. I used to post on Stormfront as an “anti” (anti White Nationalist) and they revered Putin and Russia as a symbol of western and white strength and resolve in the face of what they perceived to be growing weakness and effiminancy among the traditional western powers, and encroachment by non-Westerners (see Europe’s immigration/demographic “crisis”). To be clear, I’m not calling the GOP politicians you alluded to WNs, but one has to assume that those who have taken the velveted glove approach to Putin (a minority outside Trump’s inner circle) are responding to some queues within their base. And that base is now noted for its sympathies with nationalism (white or otherwise) and populism.
 
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The investigation was always a "no-win" situation.

There was no collusion so they can't get Trump.

They can accuse all the Russians they want, but since they can't extradite and charge them the whole exercise is a joke.

It's just a dog and pony show for the idiots who are still butt hurt from Clinton's loss.

Isn't it time for even the most profoundly brain and butt damaged Liberals to admit this?
 
haymarket said:
two simple words: SELF PRESERVATION.

They know that if they turn on Trump because of his criminal collusion with Russia, the Trumpkins will turn on them and their own sorry asses are at risk.

Its that simple.
Click to expand...

It is precisely that simple.
 
HowardBThiname said:
The truth is -- it isn't a new development. The US, Russia, and many other nations do it all the time. The hacking, however, is troublesome because that's a crime.




For me, it's not so much about "saving Trump" as it is about restoring sanity. It there was a crime and it can be shown, by all means -- show it. But, just saying that "the Russians influenced the election" isn't really productive b ecause influencing isn't a crime.



At this point, this thread should probably be relocated to the Conspiracy Theory forum. The GOP is just as interested as the Democrats in uncovering wrongdoing, but so far, we have no links to wrongdoing that is associated with Trump and collusion.

Your theory is interesting and a bit off the wall, but it's highly unlikely, given the amount of people that would have to be involved and the fact that the GOP has never been a big supporter of Russia.
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One of the more interesting trends to watch since the rise of Trumpism and Trumpist nationalism.

Russian President Vladimir Putin is enjoying rising popularity among Republicans according to a new poll from the Pew Research Center.

The poll found that the share of Republicans expressing confidence in Putin doubled to 34 percent from 17 percent in 2015, when Donald Trump launched a campaign for the White House that was seen as friendly toward Moscow.
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And while 61 percent of Democrats consider Russia a major national security risk, only 36 percent of Republicans do, the poll of 1,505 adults conducted from Feb. 16 to March 15 found. The poll had a margin of error of 3 percentage points.
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https://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/16/poll-republicans-putin-russia-confidence-241701

Republicans Fuel Rise in Putin's Favorable Ratings

A major reason for the overall rise in Putin's favorable rating this year is Republicans' more positive views of the Russian leader, from 12% in 2015 to 32% today. This comes at a time when President Donald Trump wants to improve relations with Russia, after somewhat frosty relations between the two countries during Barack Obama's presidency. Independents' opinions of Putin also have grown more positive in the last two years, but to a lesser extent than Republicans'. Democrats' views have become slightly less positive, with just 10% viewing Putin favorably today.
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https://news.gallup.com/poll/204191/putin-image-rises-mostly-among-republicans.aspx

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/1/30/16943786/trump-changed-public-opinion-russia-immigration-trade

https://morningconsult.com/2017/05/24/republicans-warming-russia-polls-show/

If you’re keeping track, this makes Putin and Russia more popular with Republicans than any democratic politician and several GOP congressmen.
 
Vox said:
The investigation was always a "no-win" situation.

There was no collusion so they can't get Trump.

They can accuse all the Russians they want, but since they can't extradite and charge them the whole exercise is a joke.

It's just a dog and pony show for the idiots who are still butt hurt from Clinton's loss.

Isn't it time for even the most profoundly brain and butt damaged Liberals to admit this?
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Ah, I would not begin to say they can't get Trump for collusion, and then there is obstruction. After seeing the detail in what the DOJ has shown in the indictments of the 12 Russian military men, I wonder just how much the investigation has on everyone involved. The detail is amazing and I am sure the reason why the GOP is out there trying to impeach Rosenstein and thus bringing an end to this. And this has really nothing to do with liberals or conservatives. Most of the people leading the investigations are actually Republicans, but they are also Americans. As Americans they want to end the influence of the Russian's on our country. Don't you want the same, or do you think that being influenced by a dictator is just fine?
 
haymarket said:
two simple words: SELF PRESERVATION.

They know that if they turn on Trump because of his criminal collusion with Russia, the Trumpkins will turn on them and their own sorry asses are at risk.

Its that simple.
Click to expand...

When Mueller comes up with nothing, you'll start saying how Mueller has been compromised, too. It's like predicting sunrise.
 
Greenbeard said:
The GOP's Putin love has certainly take off since his recent attacks on America but their media outlets at least started planting the seeds before that.

This is from four years ago: Big Vladdy - Semi-Delusional Autocrats - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart (Video Clip) | Comedy Central
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The growth is, I think, as much a result of far and alt-right elements and ideas infiltrating the party as anything. I noted in my first post in the thread that Putin and Russia love was a big thing in White Nationalist online communities when I was studying them and posting on their sites as a junior in college (2002-2003).
 
LincolnRossiter said:
One of the more interesting trends to watch since the rise of Trumpism and Trumpist nationalism.

.
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I think some of that is pretty easy to understand.

The GOP has taken a skeptical approach to Russia since the end of the Cold War, despite Reagan's push. While the democrats tried over the decades to form closer ties with Russia, the GOP held back.

That all began to change in 2013, when the US and the EU funded the ouster of a duly elected Ukrainian president, which eventually let to the Crimea seceding and then voting overwhelmingly to join Russia.

That was not the liberals' plan and it upset them badly. Instead of taking any responsibility for meddling in the Ukrainian leadership, they immediately blamed Russia -- they even went so far as to demand the Crimea not secede. At this point, the GOP is still seeing Russia though guarded eyes.

But....when Russia decided to **** with our election, ostensibly in retaliation for what the Obama Administration did with the sanctions, the GOP began to look at Putin in a more favorable light -- because he was coming down on the side of the GOP and he was flipping the democrats the bird.

And that trend has continued the past couple of years, so naturally, the GOP is going to warm more to Russia. And the democrats will go the other direction. Had Russia stumped for Hillary -- we'd be seeing very different survey numbers right now.
 
HowardBThiname said:
I think some of that is pretty easy to understand.

The GOP has taken a skeptical approach to Russia since the end of the Cold War, despite Reagan's push. While the democrats tried over the decades to form closer ties with Russia, the GOP held back.

That all began to change in 2013, when the US and the EU funded the ouster of a duly elected Ukrainian president, which eventually let to the Crimea seceding and then voting overwhelmingly to join Russia.

That was not the liberals' plan and it upset them badly. Instead of taking any responsibility for meddling in the Ukrainian leadership, they immediately blamed Russia -- they even went so far as to demand the Crimea not secede. At this point, the GOP is still seeing Russia though guarded eyes.
Click to expand...

The people and parliament of Ukraine were responsible for the removal of Yanukovych—acorrupt, politically repressive puppet of the Kremlin. Russia’s subsequent annexation of a province of a sovereign nation under the guise of a sham referendum was criminal. And I say this knowing full well of Russia’s historical ties to Crimea.

But....when Russia decided to **** with our election, ostensibly in retaliation for what the Obama Administration did with the sanctions, the GOP began to look at Putin in a more favorable light -- because he was coming down on the side of the GOP and he was flipping the democrats the bird.

And that trend has continued the past couple of years, so naturally, the GOP is going to warm more to Russia. And the democrats will go the other direction. Had Russia stumped for Hillary -- we'd be seeing very different survey numbers right now.
Click to expand...

Well I guess I can just thank you for giving me your honest opinion. Russians over your own countrymen and sacred institutions?

This is why I never apologize for my antipathy toward Trumpkins.
 
independentusa said:
We now have GOPers coming out and saying that what the Russian's did to our election is nothing new and we should just move on and drop the whole investigation. I thought this was all about saving Trump, but now I wonder after learning that the Russian'a not only hacked the Dem, they also hacked the RNC. So what info did the Russian's get from that hack and are they using it against the GOP. And even more interesting is the fact that many of the GOP candidates in the 2016 election got Russian money passed to them from intermediaries like the NRA and so called Americans with dual citizenship, i.e., American/Russian.. So it makes me wonder just what the Russian's and Putin have on members of the GOP and is this, even more than their desire to protect Trump, why they are pushing so hard to end an investigation that might lead back to some of the GOP members.
Click to expand...

What GOPers are those doing that? I confess I am unaware.

Now there are those who think we shouldn't use the investigation as a ploy to bring down the President.

There are those who think this is nothing new in the computer age, and the Russian plus a host of others, probably including Americans somewhere, are constantly trying to hack systems, meddle, create chaos, etc. etc. wherever they can find a vulnerability.

There are those who think creating crimes to charge people with is not what we should be all about.

I haven't heard a soul that think such should not be investigated, but we need a special counsel to tell us all that? The billions we already spend on professional law enforcement in the FBI, NSC, et al doesn't produce the caliber of expertise that could do that without spending many millions more on a special counsel?

The most valuable thing the special counsel has produced so far was an entirely unintended expose' of the bias and corruption on the 7th floor of the FBI. Some people are out of there now that never should have been there in the first place. (Much to the chagrin of the special counsel no doubt.)
 
independentusa said:
We now have GOPers coming out and saying that what the Russian's did to our election is nothing new and we should just move on and drop the whole investigation. .
Click to expand...

Who is saying that?
 
HowardBThiname said:
At this point, this thread should probably be relocated to the Conspiracy Theory forum.

Your theory is...a bit off the wall...
Click to expand...

Leftists and their theory of Russia, Russia, Russia, DJT collusion, has always been an off the wall conspiracy theory. That's probably why most decent normal Americans have moved on, they get it while the left is still mired in wearing vagina hats and behaving like deranged lunatics. Then again what's new in that regard?

I see nothing has really changed around DP. lol
 
independentusa said:
We now have GOPers coming out and saying that what the Russian's did to our election is nothing new and we should just move on and drop the whole investigation. I thought this was all about saving Trump, but now I wonder after learning that the Russian'a not only hacked the Dem, they also hacked the RNC. So what info did the Russian's get from that hack and are they using it against the GOP. And even more interesting is the fact that many of the GOP candidates in the 2016 election got Russian money passed to them from intermediaries like the NRA and so called Americans with dual citizenship, i.e., American/Russian.. So it makes me wonder just what the Russian's and Putin have on members of the GOP and is this, even more than their desire to protect Trump, why they are pushing so hard to end an investigation that might lead back to some of the GOP members.
Click to expand...

What they did to our election IS nothing new. Both Russia and the US have been interfering in other countries' elections for decades, if not longer. The Russians didn't hack anything of value from the RNC, proving that it was Hillary and the DNC who really were indeed crooked. We should be thanking Russia for exposing Hillary and the DNC for who they really were. Russia has nothing on either Trump or the RNC because there was nothing to be had.
 
This recent development demonstrates that Russia's objective is to ensure chaos within the US government and to discredit its leaders. Foreign policy remains largely unchanged no matter which party is in control. It is unlikely that Russia prefers either Hillary Clinton or President Trump.
 
Oceanborn said:
This recent development demonstrates that Russia's objective is to ensure chaos within the US government and to discredit its leaders. Foreign policy remains largely unchanged no matter which party is in control. It is unlikely that Russia prefers either Hillary Clinton or President Trump.
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That defies the actual and real animosity between Putin and HRC for one thing. That is not to say that HRC would have been markedly different in her approach to Russia. Probably would have been markedly less self-aggrandizing in her approach toward Russia. But nobody and especially nobody in the military industrial complex wants to deal with the actual reality of what Russia is economically, politically and militarily alone, no longer a Soviet Union. They would not be that hard to box in if we just committed to doing it. At least HRC might have made the effort to box them in as opposed to Trump treating our economy like its on its death bed and treating Russia as if it actually has something to offer which it DOES NOT. Heard any comments like "boy I sure would like one of those Russian cars, Russian computers, Russian washing machines". Other than a few Russian ballerinas and vodka I don't much hear desires for any damn thing Russia has to offer.

As for the GOP wanting to solve this as much as dems do...BS. There is now an indictment that offers that a Congressman asked a Russian agent for help in his or her election. So no GOP Congressman is real interested in seeing that come all the way out. That said, Mueller allready knows who it is and is just sweating him or her and watching how the rats around him or her scury about now that this recent indictment is out.

If the GOP which controls both Houses in Congress really cared to pursue the truth here, we would have real hearings not farce hearings. I am almost amazed that the Senate hearings have been productive to a degree. But in truth even they have been measured. The House hearings under GOP leadership have been a complete and total farce.
 
jnug said:
That defies the actual and real animosity between Putin and HRC for one thing. That is not to say that HRC would have been markedly different in her approach to Russia. Probably would have been markedly less self-aggrandizing in her approach toward Russia. But nobody and especially nobody in the military industrial complex wants to deal with the actual reality of what Russia is economically, politically and militarily alone, no longer a Soviet Union. They would not be that hard to box in if we just committed to doing it. At least HRC might have made the effort to box them in as opposed to Trump treating our economy like its on its death bed and treating Russia as if it actually has something to offer which it DOES NOT. Heard any comments like "boy I sure would like one of those Russian cars, Russian computers, Russian washing machines". Other than a few Russian ballerinas and vodka I don't much hear desires for any damn thing Russia has to offer.

As for the GOP wanting to solve this as much as dems do...BS. There is now an indictment that offers that a Congressman asked a Russian agent for help in his or her election. So no GOP Congressman is real interested in seeing that come all the way out. That said, Mueller allready knows who it is and is just sweating him or her and watching how the rats around him or her scury about now that this recent indictment is out.

If the GOP which controls both Houses in Congress really cared to pursue the truth here, we would have real hearings not farce hearings. I am almost amazed that the Senate hearings have been productive to a degree. But in truth even they have been measured. The House hearings under GOP leadership have been a complete and total farce.
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The US economy was practically on its deathbed. Unemployment was high and economic growth was at an all time low... the slowest recovery in US history. President Trump has many faults, but he is a business man and he knows how to broker a deal. Russia, for its part, is a strong competitor to the US and commands respect. Having a productive relationship with Russia is in US best interests. This Soviet Era mistrust and hatred of Russia is not productive and it could in fact be dangerous. Russia is surrounded by UN and NATO forces. The US bombs Syria based on little to no evidence of actual gas attacks from Assad. Additional sanctions have been placed on Russia due to the supposed attacks in the UK against a former spy, and yet by all accounts, if this was actually Novichok the person would be dead before they hit the ground. Russian experts were not allowed to examine the evidence. President Trump is trying to prevent a war with Russia. He can only do this by working with them.
 
Oceanborn said:
The US economy was practically on its deathbed. Unemployment was high and economic growth was at an all time low... the slowest recovery in US history. President Trump has many faults, but he is a business man and he knows how to broker a deal. Russia, for its part, is a strong competitor to the US and commands respect. Having a productive relationship with Russia is in US best interests. This Soviet Era mistrust and hatred of Russia is not productive and it could in fact be dangerous. Russia is surrounded by UN and NATO forces. The US bombs Syria based on little to no evidence of actual gas attacks from Assad. Additional sanctions have been placed on Russia due to the supposed attacks in the UK against a former spy, and yet by all accounts, if this was actually Novichok the person would be dead before they hit the ground. Russian experts were not allowed to examine the evidence. President Trump is trying to prevent a war with Russia. He can only do this by working with them.
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Stop ...just stop! Nobody has seen the steady and constant GDP growth of the USA anywhere else in the world since WW2 even with some European economies coming from deaths door after WW2. To suggest anything else is just absurd.

It is now a global economy whether we like it or not and it will be a global economy after this idiot and his idiot tariffs is gone. How anybody could have imagined that we would have continued to simply maintain the same advantages over the entire rest of the word that we ended up with after WW2 simply defies logic. We simply have not adapted our education system to the needs of a global economy...thats it. We have yet to even consider what we need other than the classic four year college degree to convert a skilled workforce to a contemporary skilled workforce and who is Ed. Sec...Betsy Devos...another screaming idiot. Not having converted the education system is all we have done wrong until dingdong Donald came along. If anything Trump is going to screw this up for us. We have had six straight months of accilerarting pace in the rate of inflation (CPI). Go find 6 straight months like that. Good luck and once Inflation really gets going on all cylinders across all sectors your goose is cooked.

Trump is not trying to stop some war with Russia. If anything he is making the world a more dangerous place. You prevent war by making it difficult for an oppoent to consider war, not by weakiening in the face of a threat.

Where do you people get this garbage?

If anything Putin is going to try to reconstruct elements of the old Soviet Union and gain access to warm water ports NOT start a war with us. Folks should learn how to read a map.
 
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jnug said:
Stop ...just stop! Nobody has seen the steady and constant GDP growth of the USA anywhere else in the world since WW2 even with some European economies coming from deaths door after WW2. To suggest anything else is just absurd.

It is now a global economy whether we like it or not and it will be a global economy after this idiot and his idiot tariffs is gone. How anybody could have imagined that we would have continued to simply maintain the same advantages over the entire rest of the word that we ended up with after WW2 simply defies logic. We simply have not adapted our education system to the needs of a global economy...thats it. We have yet to even consider what we need other than the classic four year college degree to convert a skilled workforce to a contemporary skilled workforce and who is Ed. Sec...Betsy Devos...another screaming idiot. Not having converted the education system is all we have done wrong until dingdong Donald came along. If anything Trump is going to screw this up for us. We have had six straight months of accilerarting pace in the rate of inflation (CPI). Go find 6 straight months like that. Good luck and once Inflation really gets going on all cylinders across all sectors your goose is cooked.

Trump is not trying to stop some war with Russia. If anything he is making the world a more dangerous place. You prevent war by making it difficult for an oppoent to consider war, not by weakiening in the face of a threat.

Where do you people get this garbage?

If anything Putin is going to try to reconstruct elements of the old Soviet Union and gain access to warm water ports NOT start a war with us. Folks should learn how to read a map.
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I will not discuss education in this thread since that's another topic altogether and it has nothing to do with the OP. However, economic growth rates are gradually slowing each decade. Debt is increasing as corporations, individuals and the government continue to borrow thus maintaining the illusion of economic growth. The US government has 200 trillion in unfunded liabilities... future entitlements such as medicare and social security for example. The United States recorded a government debt equivalent to 105.40 percent of the country's Gross Domestic Product in 2017. These facts may be hard to accept, but it's true. The American dream is an illusion.
 
independentusa said:
We now have GOPers coming out and saying that what the Russian's did to our election is nothing new and we should just move on and drop the whole investigation. I thought this was all about saving Trump, but now I wonder after learning that the Russian'a not only hacked the Dem, they also hacked the RNC. So what info did the Russian's get from that hack and are they using it against the GOP. And even more interesting is the fact that many of the GOP candidates in the 2016 election got Russian money passed to them from intermediaries like the NRA and so called Americans with dual citizenship, i.e., American/Russian.. So it makes me wonder just what the Russian's and Putin have on members of the GOP and is this, even more than their desire to protect Trump, why they are pushing so hard to end an investigation that might lead back to some of the GOP members.
Click to expand...

Their Manchurian Candidate is currently receiving his annual employee evaluation and he will be downloading his new instructions via a USB drive, in Putin's pants.
The GOP already received their instructions.
 
LincolnRossiter said:
It’ll take a longer post than I want to make on my phone (and I want to watch the World Cup final anyway) so I’ll re-engage. Suffice it to say that Putin has long had some allure with certain segments of the population. I used to post on Stormfront as an “anti” (anti White Nationalist) and they revered Putin and Russia as a symbol of western and white strength and resolve in the face of what they perceived to be growing weakness and effiminancy among the traditional western powers, and encroachment by non-Westerners (see Europe’s immigration/demographic “crisis”). To be clear, I’m not calling the GOP politicians you alluded to WNs, but one has to assume that those who have taken the velveted glove approach to Putin (a minority outside Trump’s inner circle) are responding to some queues within their base. And that base is now noted for its sympathies with nationalism (white or otherwise) and populism.
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what they perceived to be growing weakness and effiminancy
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The meat of it right here ^^^^.
Their own view of responsibility, accountability, strength and even masculinity is so distorted by their own massive insecurities that they cannot comprehend simple good character and "heart" when they see it. Their standard view of masculinity is often nearly a cartoon character, over the top aggressive, belligerent, swaggering, bragadocious, bullheaded and hostile.
 
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