Vietnam Era Division vs. Today?

This one is going out to the DP folks who lived through the Vietnam era. I've been checking out this new Vietnam documentary series on Netflix, and it's got me wondering about how you'd compare the level of division in America then, vs. now.

No particular agenda in mind, just interested in hearing stories...hoping for a kind of a chill thread for a change...hehe... Any takers?

It's 11:30 pm eastern. You're about 6 hours late.




:mrgreen:

OlNate said:

This one is going out to the DP folks who lived through the Vietnam era. I've been checking out this new Vietnam documentary series on Netflix, and it's got me wondering about how you'd compare the level of division in America then, vs. now.

No particular agenda in mind, just interested in hearing stories...hoping for a kind of a chill thread for a change...hehe... Any takers?

Click to expand...

I was born in 64, my Uncle served in Vietnam. The man was slightly unbalanced before Vietnam, so you can imagine what the war did to his mental health. I can remember the protest, and the caskets returning on the TV news nightly. It left an impression on me to question our goverment and its motives. I served, 2-tours Iraqi, in most cases war is avoidable. Politically we are no more seperated now, the issues have changed is all.

OlNate said:

This one is going out to the DP folks who lived through the Vietnam era. I've been checking out this new Vietnam documentary series on Netflix, and it's got me wondering about how you'd compare the level of division in America then, vs. now.

No particular agenda in mind, just interested in hearing stories...hoping for a kind of a chill thread for a change...hehe... Any takers?

Click to expand...

It is worse now, no question in my opinion. Of course there was limited television and no social media back then.

I was in Vietnam in 1969. It seems almost every major event in the US occurred in 1969. For most of my life people have brought up something from back then and asked me if I went or where I was when something happened and damn near every time whatever it was happened in 1969. I missed everything. LOL.

I've been thinking about watching the Netflix Vietnam thing by Ken Burns. You must have found it though provoking. Do you recommend it?

When I shipped back I had a connecting flight in Chicago. I met 3 other guys who were coming back as well. None of us knew each other but we were easy to spot. There was something there. Likely it was that all of us were happy to be back but scared ****less to be stateside. We had changed so much and we were returning to a country that had changed as well. I can't describe the feeling. Like maybe waking up from the worst and longest nightmare of your life and you weren't certain that it was over.

There were no welcome homes to speak of back then. Pretty much nothing.

Only comfortable with each other, not ready to venture out into the world alone, we all sat in a bar to have a drink while we waited for our flights. The bartender refused to serve us and told us to leave. He didn't support the war. LOL, neither did we. He pissed us off. We refused to leave. He threatened to call the police. We didn't care. "What are the police going to do? Send us to Vietnam?"

The police came, nice guys. They said that we were peaceful and that they weren't going to ask us to leave, however, they could not force the bartender to serve us. We sat there for a while trying to process the hate thrown at us from the bartender. Eventually we left and went to another bar in the airport without any problems.

OlNate said:

This one is going out to the DP folks who lived through the Vietnam era. I've been checking out this new Vietnam documentary series on Netflix, and it's got me wondering about how you'd compare the level of division in America then, vs. now.

No particular agenda in mind, just interested in hearing stories...hoping for a kind of a chill thread for a change...hehe... Any takers?

Click to expand...

No question in my mind that the division in the 60's was much more heated than what we see now. Was in college during part of it. Kids protesting in the streets were attacked by construction workers in NYC. They used their tools and beat guys and girls alike with the wrenches etc. You had Kent State where the national guard shot directly at student protesters. You had the police riot during the 1968 democratic convention. You had bombings from groups like the SDS (students for a democratic society).

In addition you really did have kids who were drafted head off to Canada. Not talk about it like some do today.

The 60's also brought the civil rights movement to a head. With the beatings,turning dogs on protesters and even killing of civil rights protesters.

Then you had the assassinations of a President, his brother who was running for president and MLK.

People who call this the most divisive time in our history are probably to young to remember.

OlNate said:

This one is going out to the DP folks who lived through the Vietnam era. I've been checking out this new Vietnam documentary series on Netflix, and it's got me wondering about how you'd compare the level of division in America then, vs. now.

No particular agenda in mind, just interested in hearing stories...hoping for a kind of a chill thread for a change...hehe... Any takers?

Click to expand...

It was not as extreme because the news wasn’t exploiting the war news for ratings. The war was not being fought to win, but to stalemate, and to take a hill to show who’s dick is bigger.

Today we have a country of tribes, disconnected from each other. In the 60’s and 70’s it was Americans vs Americans with disagreements, now it’s unstable people who have immigrated in from unstable countries as well as unsuccessful earners who want to change the system they claim failed them, when it really is the other way around.

The Vietnam Era is like the Indian Parable about 9 blind men and an elephant. The men had never came across an elephant before. Each blind man feels a different part of the elephant body and from that experience describe the elephant based on their partial experience and their descriptions are in complete disagreement with the other men.


I wore an uniform in 1970 in airports and never had anyone spit on me or protest me. But I know others did indeed. Just the same, nobody ever once came up and said Thank You for your service.
There are so many different perceptions of that era. It is really hard to compare it to present time.

OlNate said:

This one is going out to the DP folks who lived through the Vietnam era. I've been checking out this new Vietnam documentary series on Netflix, and it's got me wondering about how you'd compare the level of division in America then, vs. now.

No particular agenda in mind, just interested in hearing stories...hoping for a kind of a chill thread for a change...hehe... Any takers?

Click to expand...

I was a kid back then, but there sure is one thing that the Vietnam era protests did... It drove a wedge in our society and resulted in a decade (the 70's) where there was little optimism and people just weren't very happy. It was like a cloud hung over the nation. It took Ronald Reagan to reinvigorate people and bring back pride in the US.

The way it's looking, it's going to be much worse that the 70's this time around, as far as societal harmony is concerned. The identity politics and race hustling is out of control.

Risky Thicket said:

It is worse now, no question in my opinion. Of course there was limited television and no social media back then.

I was in Vietnam in 1969. It seems almost every major event in the US occurred in 1969. For most of my life people have brought up something from back then and asked me if I went or where I was when something happened and damn near every time whatever it was happened in 1969. I missed everything. LOL.

I've been thinking about watching the Netflix Vietnam thing by Ken Burns. You must have found it though provoking. Do you recommend it?

Click to expand...

I would counter with 1968, when I was 14, the year of the Tet Offensive that swung public opinion. Seeing 300 dead soldiers a week on TV.

The assassinations of RFK and MLK Jr, the Chicago Dem convention and those riots, George Wallace, the Burn Baby Burn in cities across the Nation; 4 dead in Ohio and the National Guard deployed around the Nation; Nixon’s high treason in the Paris Peace talks DURING the election.

The war in the Middle East that leaked into 1968; the only year that I’ve seen worse than 50 years ago is this year.

OlNate said:

This one is going out to the DP folks who lived through the Vietnam era. I've been checking out this new Vietnam documentary series on Netflix, and it's got me wondering about how you'd compare the level of division in America then, vs. now.

No particular agenda in mind, just interested in hearing stories...hoping for a kind of a chill thread for a change...hehe... Any takers?

Click to expand...

Good grief. Even division has changed? Used to be you just sorted out how many times 13 went into 473, stuck a remainder on the end and you were done. What is it they want now?

Risky Thicket said:

When I shipped back I had a connecting flight in Chicago. I met 3 other guys who were coming back as well. None of us knew each other but we were easy to spot. There was something there. Likely it was that all of us were happy to be back but scared ****less to be stateside. We had changed so much and we were returning to a country that had changed as well. I can't describe the feeling. Like maybe waking up from the worst and longest nightmare of your life and you weren't certain that it was over.

There were no welcome homes to speak of back then. Pretty much nothing.

Only comfortable with each other, not ready to venture out into the world alone, we all sat in a bar to have a drink while we waited for our flights. The bartender refused to serve us and told us to leave. He didn't support the war. LOL, neither did we. He pissed us off. We refused to leave. He threatened to call the police. We didn't care. "What are the police going to do? Send us to Vietnam?"

The police came, nice guys. They said that we were peaceful and that they weren't going to ask us to leave, however, they could not force the bartender to serve us. We sat there for a while trying to process the hate thrown at us from the bartender. Eventually we left and went to another bar in the airport without any problems.

Click to expand...

My Air Force Dad was one of those who got spit on at the airport when he escorted fallen soldiers home to their families after doing supply there. It tore him up; sent him back to the drink.

I respect your previously stated views on those who didn’t go. Dad offered me the Maine to Quebec pipeline if I ever got drafted. My year was 1972, the first year of no 2S. I knew I wouldn’t get drafted in an election year, even at a low lottery #. I was cynical. Ask the younger ones today what a lottery # would have meant to them.

A buddy and I with low #s went to AFEES in Chicago in late 1971 as freshman in college without that 2S, taking the same physical that ted nugent **** his way out of. We were one-holding for 7 years while our friends darted off to out-of-state National Guards.

I’m very bitter about my older friends who didn’t go the 2S route due to being poor, grades, not into school, etc. They’re all dead now. My very best friend who went died in 2001. He was there when you were. You’re a bit of a linc to him for me.

He came back impaled from a metal shoot. A lifetime on meds. He would speak of how the rock music got them through it. Maybe a little about the trips to Cambodia on R and R. I’m still haunted by the stories like being ordered to set claymores on the perimeter at night.

Upon returning, he spent 6 months in the Rockies and up to Banff and always raved about Lake Louise. He inspired me to go West, and I’m forever grateful to him. I still miss him, and visit his Columbarium at Abraham Lincoln National Cemetery when I go to my Father’s grave. ALNC is overpowering.

Risky Thicket said:

It is worse now, no question in my opinion. Of course there was limited television and no social media back then.

I was in Vietnam in 1969. It seems almost every major event in the US occurred in 1969. For most of my life people have brought up something from back then and asked me if I went or where I was when something happened and damn near every time whatever it was happened in 1969. I missed everything. LOL.

I've been thinking about watching the Netflix Vietnam thing by Ken Burns. You must have found it though provoking. Do you recommend it?

Click to expand...

Gonna hold back my thoughts for a second, Risky, give a few more people the chance to just tell their stories, if they like, without getting too debate-y about it, but thanks for sharing this, man.

As for the documentary, I do...I mean, it's a tough watch, for a lot of reasons, they don't really shy away from being graphic...but it's not snuff porn, it appears to be an honest attempt to make people understand. That said, one of the reasons I'm reaching out for personal stories is that it's tough not to insert opinion into creativity, and I had to wonder if the documentary was correct, or if, like so many other things, there was another side. Would love to hear your thoughts on it, if you go to watch it - it's a long one, I think I'm maybe only halfway through...could be less.

Risky Thicket said:

It is worse now, no question in my opinion. Of course there was limited television and no social media back then.

I was in Vietnam in 1969. It seems almost every major event in the US occurred in 1969. For most of my life people have brought up something from back then and asked me if I went or where I was when something happened and damn near every time whatever it was happened in 1969. I missed everything. LOL.

I've been thinking about watching the Netflix Vietnam thing by Ken Burns. You must have found it though provoking. Do you recommend it?

Click to expand...

It was very well made.

OlNate said:

This one is going out to the DP folks who lived through the Vietnam era. I've been checking out this new Vietnam documentary series on Netflix, and it's got me wondering about how you'd compare the level of division in America then, vs. now.

No particular agenda in mind, just interested in hearing stories...hoping for a kind of a chill thread for a change...hehe... Any takers?

Click to expand...

IMO the draft had much to do with eventually putting the brakes on our actions in Vietnam. And of course Walter Cronkite, and quite a few others, being conscientious journalists.

With today's volunteer military things are different, and the MIC learned from its mistakes in Vietnam. 911 was designed to bring us the Global War On Terror, and it was very successful, though many people are becoming more perceptive. Back in Vietnam days they didn't have the faux patriotism that we have today, like flags covering entire football fields and a huge military presence for the national anthem.

"Thank you for your service" is a warm and fuzzy feel good technique to praise the military without asking questions about what the hell is going on.

Grim17 said:

I was a kid back then, but there sure is one thing that the Vietnam era protests did... It drove a wedge in our society and resulted in a decade (the 70's) where there was little optimism and people just weren't very happy. It was like a cloud hung over the nation. It took Ronald Reagan to reinvigorate people and bring back pride in the US.

The way it's looking, it's going to be much worse that the 70's this time around, as far as societal harmony is concerned. The identity politics and race hustling is out of control.

Click to expand...

I’d course you had prez Carter and democrat presidents can dick the life out of anything.

chuckiechan said:

I’d course you had prez Carter and democrat presidents can dick the life out of anything.

Click to expand...

There was an extreme amount of division during Vietnam but it was, by and large, young people that were being forced to fight a war they didn't believe in against the "Military Industrial Complex", whatever that is/was. The conflict between the two factions was emphasized by protests and music against a the ridged "America, love it or leave it" establishment. The protests, for the most part, were peaceful ... until Kent State, but there wasn't the US against THEM mentality, of all age groups, we have today. At the end of the day we were still ALL, valid, AmeriCANS. Unlike today where we are Left or Right and to each other that means the "OTHER" side is something less than human and certainly NOT a patriot of These United States.

The division then comparted to now is much more mean spirited and base than it was then. The ingrained hate of one American toward another was nothing like today.

Lutherf said:

Good grief. Even division has changed? Used to be you just sorted out how many times 13 went into 473, stuck a remainder on the end and you were done. What is it they want now?

Click to expand...

I don't know if I really understand this one, Luther...what do you mean?

OlNate said:

This one is going out to the DP folks who lived through the Vietnam era. I've been checking out this new Vietnam documentary series on Netflix, and it's got me wondering about how you'd compare the level of division in America then, vs. now.

No particular agenda in mind, just interested in hearing stories...hoping for a kind of a chill thread for a change...hehe... Any takers?

Click to expand...

I made a post like this on another forum. It's very similar, and as typical, the conservatives are on the wrong side of civil rights, yet again. Also their similiarity to their blind devotion to military and love of war, a war that was a complete disgrace. Just like the Iraq war was a disgrace that just pissed away trillions of dollars. And conservatives today still using the stupid "if you don't like it leave" nonsense.

the treatment of the soldiers when they got back was BS, its not their fault, they are just doing their jobs

they even had a part where LBJ is talking about what Nixon was doing as Treason, making deals while he was running. But he kept it quiet, like Obama did.

We look back at the civil rights movement with pride (well, maybe the racists right wingers don't) and here we are yet again and conservatives are being hateful assholes yet again.

washunut said:

No question in my mind that the division in the 60's was much more heated than what we see now. Was in college during part of it. Kids protesting in the streets were attacked by construction workers in NYC. They used their tools and beat guys and girls alike with the wrenches etc. You had Kent State where the national guard shot directly at student protesters. You had the police riot during the 1968 democratic convention. You had bombings from groups like the SDS (students for a democratic society).

In addition you really did have kids who were drafted head off to Canada. Not talk about it like some do today.

The 60's also brought the civil rights movement to a head. With the beatings,turning dogs on protesters and even killing of civil rights protesters.

Then you had the assassinations of a President, his brother who was running for president and MLK.

People who call this the most divisive time in our history are probably to young to remember.

Click to expand...

Republicans keep up this scumbaggery of screwing over the people and not even hiding it and it may very well get to that point

StuPedaso said:

There was an extreme amount of division during Vietnam but it was, by and large, young people that were being forced to fight a war they didn't believe in against the "Military Industrial Complex", whatever that is/was. The conflict between the two factions was emphasized by protests and music against a the ridged "America, love it or leave it" establishment. The protests, for the most part, were peaceful ... until Kent State, but there wasn't the US against THEM mentality, of all age groups, we have today. At the end of the day we were still ALL, valid, AmeriCANS. Unlike today where we are Left or Right and to each other that means the "OTHER" side is something less than human and certainly NOT a patriot of These United States.

The division then comparted to now is much more mean spirited and base than it was then. The ingrained hate of one American toward another was nothing like today.

Click to expand...

not just young kids, poor kids. All the people pushing for the war didn't have to have their kids fight it. Rich kids could use their wealth to avoid the draft, like Trump

there wasn't Fox propaganda back then feeding the right nothing but fear, hatred and ignorance

The 1960s were far, far more divisive and deadly.

Next.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

OlNate said:

This one is going out to the DP folks who lived through the Vietnam era. I've been checking out this new Vietnam documentary series on Netflix, and it's got me wondering about how you'd compare the level of division in America then, vs. now.

No particular agenda in mind, just interested in hearing stories...hoping for a kind of a chill thread for a change...hehe... Any takers?

Click to expand...

The difference i feel is what was being fought for, back then it was civil rights in its truest sense (desegregation,right to vote,etc) and anti war.

Now we are divided over LGBTQIAAkdgaifgojvbpo/abortion/equal pay/identity/language/immigration issues.

These things are not equal and neither will their impact or significance be remembered in history.

Fiddytree said:

The 1960s were far, far more divisive and deadly.

Next.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Not true.

The end.

StuPedaso said:

Not true.

The end.

Click to expand...

That was interesting, but...

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk