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How swimming pools became a flashpoint of racial tension in America

<alt>doxygen said:
I was a kid in the 1960's. Segregation was illegal, but there was a private swimming pool where there were no non-white members. It was just a tacit agreement amongst the members that no one would sell a membership to a non-white. Eventually, one family sold a membership to a black family. It was a good thing they were moving about 1000 miles, because the venom that was directed their way was pretty scary. I would not have wanted to be the black family that broke that barrier. That's some serious bravery if you ask me.

Being gay back then was really tough, too.
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Growing up, a black family was shown a house for sale across the street from me. The only reason the realtor brought them there was because he had been fined TWICE for racial steering

Two nights later, the house was fire-bombed
 
celticwar17 said:
I am not complaining about these things... I am literally just stating my experience... the vast majority of interactions I have with other black individuals are great.
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And I'm letting you know that your claim that the south isn't that racist, cannot reasonably be based on your single experience. I offered my own experience, that is a 180 from yours.

It's also strange that you're talking about how the south isn't racist, then you write "the vast majority of interactions I have with other black individuals are great." I was not aware we were discussing if black individuals are enjoyable to interact with or not...I feel that's likely racist right there, but you appear to be trying so I'll just note that it's very odd to me, to see you write that, when I thought we were discussing racism. Just so you know, that looks more like bigotry you experienced. Blacks are not the majority culture in the U.S., it's not really "racist". Knowing the difference is important. You can call it whatever you want, as long as you can understand the very fundamental and importance difference between:
1 being treated negatively as a minority race, by the majority race, because of your race.
2. being treated negatively as the majority race, by minorities, because of your majority race
Both are likely being treated unfairly...both are exhibiting bigotry.
But 1) is racism.

An extreme example, but imagine a different scenario. White immigrants who kick native Americans off their land for years using all sorts of methods, including killing, raiding, raping, etc.
Imagine you are a newly arrived white man, harboring no racial prejudices, and you come across one of these Native American tribes that have suffered under white invaders for years.
They see you and immediately hate you. Is that you trying to help the kids with their car?

Now, do you understand that their reasons, may not be because they feel you are an inferior race, sub-human, not as good culturally, etc. (racist) but instead hate you for the assumed misdeeds their culture/families have experienced at the hands of whites for decades? It is still wrong for them to assume you are the same as the other whites they know, that's true. But surely you can see that this is entirely different than how for example, some of those white Americans view the Native Americans that they are kicking off their land...as savages, sub-human, etc.

Both hate based on race, but one is entirely different than the other when you examine it more closely.
 
celticwar17 said:
I am being 100% honest. I've lived with black people all my life. Coming over to family dinners... roomates... bosses... coworkers... best friends... In college, I lived with really southern people for a year and one black guy(He was one of their best friends) and they had a huge Confederate flag in the living room.... the place would be often visited by more black people than white people... and they would free style rap with each other all the time and drink(It was because their home town was really close to the college so they had a lot of visitors from back home).

I literally have only seen one racist white family.... and that was the ONLY time I have ever seen or heard with my own eyes racism towards black people... and it was a 3 hour debate with an ex's grandpa in south florida.

The only racist thing I have seen happen in public was against a minority was an asian girl(a chick I was dating) and a drunk guy that thought he was being funny... and I quickly told him how I didn't think he was funny and he actually seemed remorseful.

All other cases of racism if you can even call it that, because it's very minor, I have seen in public... was against me. I'll give you a couples things that happened to me recently... Just 6 months ago... I was out at a club with a group of friends... at the end of the night I was waiting on a uber. There was this black chick and random black guy in a big argument... obviously the situation was the dude was hitting on the girl and she didn't want anything of it... and the guy got butthurt.
He ended up calling her a bitch... they also had two groups of friends... and she was yelling...
"You call your OWN sister a bitch... YOUR own sister... all these CRACKERS standing around here, and you call your OWN sister a bitch." I was the only one standing around... waiting for an uber... and they turned to me and laughed and went back to their arguing.

About a month ago, my girlfriend and I were walking around my neighborhood... I live in the city. And I saw a group of inner city teenagers with their car broken down... they were getting out the car, and trying to move it somewhere.
I looked over, kind of with a concerned face like,"You guys alright? You need any help?" ... was about to say something like that...but they all immediate stopped... and stared at me with a blank face, they weren't nice blank faces either... it was the kind of face like," do it, I dare you". It was REALLY weird. I just chose to keep on walking... but it was obvious they didn't want me talking to them...could have been a complete misunderstanding, I could of have a weird face for all I know because I'm awkward as hell.

I am not complaining about these things... I am literally just stating my experience... the vast majority of interactions I have with other black individuals are great. It's just REALLY hard to believe when I am on the "inside" of apparently the most racist people in the USA... and I see absolutely nothing. IF I EVER see anyone being racist to anyone, I will immediately call them out... I simply haven't been required to do that.
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My wife is Chinese, and is racist (not using Exofarm's definition). She does not show it at least when I am around (and I assume other times) but she has fully admitted she does not like black people or people from the mid east.

Growing up, I saw open racism towards East Indians and Chinese in my city.

Racism still exists, it still remains a problem (a lower one than in the past).
 
sangha said:
Growing up, a black family was shown a house for sale across the street from me. The only reason the realtor brought them there was because he had been fined TWICE for racial steering

Two nights later, the house was fire-bombed
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Down at the end of my block an inter-racial couple (black male / white female) bought a house. I actually heard "There goes the neighborhood" more than a few times. I think that was around 1972. My little neighborhood had some weird racial, religious, marital and sexual dynamics going on. It was a trip. If I could remember more and knew more of the details I could write a book about it. I think the weirdest thing was the couple across the street where the wife ran off with a teacher from my elementary school. I learned what lesbians were...
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
My wife is Chinese, and is racist (not using Exofarm's definition). She does not show it at least when I am around (and I assume other times) but she has fully admitted she does not like black people or people from the mid east.

Growing up, I saw open racism towards East Indians and Chinese in my city.

Racism still exists, it still remains a problem (a lower one than in the past).
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Of course it exists... I am just telling you my personal experience with it. In my opinion it is NOWHERE NEAR the problem many seem to make it out to be.

There is a real issue in using hyperbole to satisfy your misguided compassion. When there is clear racism, we as a society does a good job at confronting it. Being a racist is not accepted in our society, you will get fired from your job and your life would be ruined... are there some closest racists? of course there are, but it's not worth being paranoid over. Paranoia about such things is not much different than being racist, your'e trying to assume values on individuals you do not know.
 
Perhaps the reason why blacks self-segregate is because they have been taught they are different for so long they never feel as if they can just be people instead of black people. Did that ever cross anyone's mind? Try this on for an experiment. The next time a black person comes into a mostly white setting, try not to say "there is a black guy". Try saying "there is a man". Or the converse, have you ever said "that white guy just joined our softball team"? Likely never crossed your white mind did it? Try it, never ever describe a black person again as a black person. It will take all your effort to stop yourself from saying it.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
I understand the implications of it, I see it in the city in which I live, and in most cities across North America.

Where I live the european districts have generally become smaller and smaller, our little italy has pretty much gone away. We do have areas in which our Chinese population tends to congregate, our Indian and Pakistani population tends to congregate, and so one with many of the large ethnic groups in this city. With the exception of historic Chinatown in which most residents are much older Chinese none of those areas are strictly one ethnic group.

The important aspect to remember, in my city all of this is voluntary. People are not being run out of a community by the other residents because they are of a different ethnic group.
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Since you failed..........Let us review...... races self-segregate by choice......because they feel more comfortable with people like themselves.

The most obviously salient implication is that the races will never be able to live in peace and the dominant race will always step all over the minorities.

There is this dim-witted Liberal fantasy that when the blacks and browns become the majority in the U.S. they will somehow do better......and treat the minority whites with fairness and compassion.

What utter tripe. Look at South Africa as an example. There the whites are being tortured......then murdered......and their farms taken over by blacks. Nelson Mandela in the grave........where are your high ideals?

Whites damned well better hang onto their political and numerical power in the U.S. or ....... those much discussed "reparations" won't be just talk or voluntary--they'll just be TAKEN.
 
celticwar17 said:
Of course it exists... I am just telling you my personal experience with it. In my opinion it is NOWHERE NEAR the problem many seem to make it out to be.

There is a real issue in using hyperbole to satisfy your misguided compassion. When there is clear racism, we as a society does a good job at confronting it. Being a racist is not accepted in our society, you will get fired from your job and your life would be ruined... are there some closest racists? of course there are, but it's not worth being paranoid over. Paranoia about such things is not much different than being racist, your'e trying to assume values on individuals you do not know.
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Lets look at subtle forms of racism

For example harassment. The police in certain cities have policies of carding and stop and frisk. Sure they do that for all ethnic groups but certain groups get it done far more often. One black man in Toronto was carded over 100 times by the police. I have never been stopped by the police when hanging out downtown (when i was drunk or not drunk, or when drinking in public) Or the practice of stopping specific ethnic groups when driving when they are in communities "they do not belong in". It is common enough that it has been referred to as driving while black.

Or being harassed at pools, being asked for ID when others are not. We have evidence in the opening post that pools have tended to be segregated in the US by making them community pools. How many times would it take someone being asked for id before they stopped going to the pool in which they pay for membership to
 
Mach said:
And I'm letting you know that your claim that the south isn't that racist, cannot reasonably be based on your single experience. I offered my own experience, that is a 180 from yours.

It's also strange that you're talking about how the south isn't racist, then you write "the vast majority of interactions I have with other black individuals are great." I was not aware we were discussing if black individuals are enjoyable to interact with or not...I feel that's likely racist right there, but you appear to be trying so I'll just note that it's very odd to me, to see you write that, when I thought we were discussing racism. Just so you know, that looks more like bigotry you experienced. Blacks are not the majority culture in the U.S., it's not really "racist". Knowing the difference is important. You can call it whatever you want, as long as you can understand the very fundamental and importance difference between:
1 being treated negatively as a minority race, by the majority race, because of your race.
2. being treated negatively as the majority race, by minorities, because of your majority race
Both are likely being treated unfairly...both are exhibiting bigotry.
But 1) is racism.

An extreme example, but imagine a different scenario. White immigrants who kick native Americans off their land for years using all sorts of methods, including killing, raiding, raping, etc.
Imagine you are a newly arrived white man, harboring no racial prejudices, and you come across one of these Native American tribes that have suffered under white invaders for years.
They see you and immediately hate you. Is that you trying to help the kids with their car?

Now, do you understand that their reasons, may not be because they feel you are an inferior race, sub-human, not as good culturally, etc. (racist) but instead hate you for the assumed misdeeds their culture/families have experienced at the hands of whites for decades? It is still wrong for them to assume you are the same as the other whites they know, that's true. But surely you can see that this is entirely different than how for example, some of those white Americans view the Native Americans that they are kicking off their land...as savages, sub-human, etc.

Both hate based on race, but one is entirely different than the other when you examine it more closely.
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Yeah I've heard that all before... All I think that is is an excuse to be a racist, while at the same time crying about racism. We do not agree on the definition so it is an impass socratically.

What I have to say about that is I fundamentally treat people as individuals, To me, being a racist is a individual character flaw that you think whatever genetic race you belong to(or maybe not even yours) is superior in value to others strictly on the basis of race. And race-ism is technical term for the general category of the philosophy/system of racists. When someone says, "that is racism"... it means that is an act of prejudice was inspired by the philosophy/system of racism, which is a philosophy/system that thinks whatever genetic group is superior to others... they are putting their philosophy/system to action.

Just because you do not have the power to make your philosophy/system to be implemented, does not escape from the fact you are a racist and you practice racism.... because in fact, no white person in America has that power.... because they have the overwhelming majority of Individuals that would stop them. White people are not a unified or tribal group in America, there may be a small subgroup of individuals that are... but they are not a majority... not even close... they have no power over anyone. There are a lot of white people who do not identify with other white people on any level whatsoever... In the past, far past, this was not the case. There was a large culturally unified group of of subgroups of white Americans who believed in racism.

A Communist is a communist whether he has the power to implement his totalitarian philosophy into practice or not. It is the SAME with racism and a racist. Race-ism... Commune-ism, Captial-ism... are all seperate from the fact who holds the power... it's entirely based on what you as an individual think, there is no special word created to separate the difference lol.
 
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Lord Tammerlain said:
Lets look at subtle forms of racism

For example harassment. The police in certain cities have policies of carding and stop and frisk. Sure they do that for all ethnic groups but certain groups get it done far more often. One black man in Toronto was carded over 100 times by the police. I have never been stopped by the police when hanging out downtown (when i was drunk or not drunk, or when drinking in public) Or the practice of stopping specific ethnic groups when driving when they are in communities "they do not belong in". It is common enough that it has been referred to as driving while black.

Or being harassed at pools, being asked for ID when others are not. We have evidence in the opening post that pools have tended to be segregated in the US by making them community pools. How many times would it take someone being asked for id before they stopped going to the pool in which they pay for membership to
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The pool Id thing was a single case.... it's absolutely fascinating why this is national news. It really seems that if a single minute possibly racist thing happens... anywhere in America, among the 400 million people that live here... it is plastered all over the news lol. That's when you know there is so little going on xD.

Dude.. I've only lived 28 years and I've had tons of random people be assholes to me in public for no reason whatsoever. I can only imagine multiply me with 400 million people and then add in the fact that at least half of everyone have absolutely toxic personalities, you'll get these random occurrences....

I've had people punch me in the face out of nowhere... I've been jumped on the street before... I was even one of those boys once who accidentally kick his ball in the mean ladies backyard and wouldn't give it back. I've encountered bad moods by random strangers. I'm glad the asshole demanding an ID was called out... that is what should happen, society is working, he was out of line and did something with what seems to be motivated by prejudice... but to try to make anything more of that is dramatic.

If you really want to find it... there is a lot of indecency to be found and whine about... but overall things are going pretty great...

As far as Police... The facts are black communities commit a SIGNIFICANTLY higher rate of crime.... when I mean significantly... I mean 4x, 14x, 16x more likelihood of a particular crime, depending on the crime. Those communities will obviously be policed more... because police are needed more, and there are significantly more calls.
It's a complicated issue trying to both protect black communities and conduct their investigations perfectly evenly.... even though these communities are nowhere close to the kind of behavior and tendencies... officers lives are on the line.
It's a delicate balance that needs to continue to be worked on.
but from studies I've seem black people get arrested equivalent to the amount of crime they commit.... in fact crimes by black people are being slightly under reported. I got this from a study that did a comprehensive phone survey and asked people if they had been the victim of a violent crime, and were asked the race of the individual... they then compared the percentages of the victims and the arrest rate of ethnicity..... and they matched up almost perfectly.
In fact, blacks had a percentage or two higher than the arrest rate.
 
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Mach said:
It's also strange that you're talking about how the south isn't racist, then you write "the vast majority of interactions I have with other black individuals are great." I was not aware we were discussing if black individuals are enjoyable to interact with or not...I feel that's likely racist right there,
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And wow dude.... The only reason I put that in there was to curb any suggestions that was being overly dramatic about the black population listing my own personal experiences...
 
<alt>doxygen said:
DJT used "identity politics" to get elected. The only way Carter and Clinton were able to win was that, coming from the south, they knew how to use the necessary dog whistles. Trump dropped the whistle and got a bullhorn. I think the whistle makers don't have a market anymore.
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Yep, Trump came from south New York.
 
More like - How Vox capitalizes on racial and political division by intensifying it.
 
celticwar17 said:
Yeah I've heard that all before... All I think that is is an excuse to be a racist, while at the same time crying about racism. We do not agree on the definition so it is an impass socratically.
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The definition is irrelevant. All you have to do is agree that they are two distinct things. That you cannot or will not do that, is unfortunate.

What I have to say about that is I fundamentally treat people as individuals, To me, being a racist is a individual character flaw that you think whatever genetic race you belong to(or maybe not even yours) is superior in value to others strictly on the basis of race.
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That's not what anyone serious means when they use the word racism. Why not use wikipedia or a source other than your personal opinion. Wait, I know the answer to that.


White people are not. not a majority... not even close... they have no power over anyone.
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Wow, the 1970s are calling.

There are a lot of white people who do not identify with other white people on any level whatsoever.
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Irrelevant, like your made up definition, and your made up notion of majority power.

I thought you were about to start really discussing something, but I see the tinfoil hat was just hidden.
 
Mach said:
The definition is irrelevant. All you have to do is agree that they are two distinct things. That you cannot or will not do that, is unfortunate.
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It is not a distinction I find useful, and see zero point in changing the definition. If you want to make a distinction... make up a word for it... do not use existing nomenclature.


Mach said:
That's not what anyone serious means when they use the word racism. Why not use wikipedia or a source other than your personal opinion. Wait, I know the answer to that.
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I am quite aware of what the radical humanities community has tried to do to the nomenclature for their own agenda.



Mach said:
Wow, the 1970s are calling.
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Did I not address that? I said, it used to be the case....and not anymore... the whole point is I don't need to call the 1970s, I am happy to put the 1970s behind me unlike people like you.

Mach said:
Irrelevant, like your made up definition, and your made up notion of majority power.
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LOL, how ironic... you know the word has existed for more than a hundred years right? Try to find the meaning...xD I guarantee you it has absolutely zero resemblance to your made up activist word.

Mach said:
I thought you were about to start really discussing something, but I see the tinfoil hat was just hidden.
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I see you lost the argument and now what to demote the conversation into frivolousness.
 
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