• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Harvard's racism against Asians

RAMOSS said:
Dude, what would you suggest for getting a diversified environment , and to give minorities a change to get out of the cycle of poverty?
Click to expand...

How, exactly, is race/ethnicity based AA helping white or Asian folks get out of their cycle of poverty? The poverty rate may be higher for some 'racial' groups (blacks and Hispanics of any race) but the largest number of the poor (by race/enthnicty) in the US are, in fact, white (non-Hispanic) which number over 17M folks.

U.S. Poverty Statistics - Federal Safety Net
 
ttwtt78640 said:
How, exactly, is race/ethnicity based AA helping white or Asian folks get out of their cycle of poverty? The poverty rate may be higher for some 'racial' groups (blacks and Hispanics of any race) but the largest number of the poor (by race/enthnicty) in the US are, in fact, white (non-Hispanic) which number over 17M folks.

U.S. Poverty Statistics - Federal Safety Net
Click to expand...
Funny how certain white people want to ignore 350 years of slavery and Jim Crow. "You're on your own now, Darkie."
 
calamity said:
Funny how certain white people want to ignore 350 years of slavery and Jim Crow. "You're on your own now, Darkie."
Click to expand...

I am not ignoring anything - I am simply saying that if AA is designed to help 'break the cycle of poverty" it need not use race instead of household income to define poverty.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I am not ignoring anything - I am simply saying that if AA is designed to help 'break the cycle of poverty" it need not use race instead of household income to define poverty.
Click to expand...
AA is there to give the oppressed a chance to make it onto the field. Like Eco said, the rest of us have hundreds of years head start on the people who were not even allowed to attend a good school in most of the country until 60 years ago.
 
calamity said:
AA is there to give the oppressed a chance to make it onto the field. Like Eco said, the rest of us have hundreds of years head start on the people who were not even allowed to attend a good school in most of the country until 60 years ago.
Click to expand...

Nonsense - many do not attend a 'good school' now and that is not, by any means, based on their race alone. To assure the 17 million poor white (non-Histanic) folks that they have some 'head start' and attend 'good schools' would surely surprise them greatly.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Nonsense - many do not attend a 'good school' now and that is not, by any means, based on their race alone. To assure the 17 million poor white (non-Histanic) folks that they have some 'head start' and attend 'good schools' would surely surprise them greatly.
Click to expand...
You're ignoring 250 years of slavery and 100 years of Jim Crow. Why is that?
 
Bucky said:
So, you believe it is okay for colleges like Harvard to hold Asians on a higher standard than other races?

This is classic discrimination and is unconstitutional.
Click to expand...

Exactly. All college applications should be anonymous, IMO; no name, race or gender, just your qualifications. If we ran the universities and the business world on such standards, we'd solve a lot of problems. Nobody should get into Harvard by virtue of what they are but by virtue of what qualities and abilities they bring.
 
veritas1 said:
Exactly. All college applications should be anonymous, IMO; no name, race or gender, just your qualifications. If we ran the universities and the business world on such standards, we'd solve a lot of problems. Nobody should get into Harvard by virtue of what they are but by virtue of what qualities and abilities they bring.
Click to expand...

That would be the smartest way for both colleges and businesses to do it.
 
independentusa said:
I find this interesting that now you want to take away a private school's right to decide for themselves who is admitted and who is not. You want to decide what they use to decide who is admitted. Schools like Harvard have used many reasons for admitting students other than just race, grades and test scores. They even use what part of the country you come from because they want a diverse student population, not just students form the eastern part of the country.
Click to expand...

This diversity God will destroy us eventually. I don't want a diverse team of surgeons, I want the BEST surgeons. I want the BEST pilots, the BEST engineers, the BEST lawyers, etc. The idea that having a diverse team is better than having the best team, is a recipe for failure, if not disaster. Sports doesn't operate on the diversity model, it operates on the winning model and that's how we should operate as a nation. Intelligence and ability is innate and people who have it will find an avenue to display it, regardless of race or gender.
 
calamity said:
You're ignoring 250 years of slavery and 100 years of Jim Crow. Why is that?
Click to expand...

I'm not ignoring anything - you keep ignoring the claim that AA was alleged to have been based on economic disadvantage. I agree 100% that blacks are not only included, but overrepresented, among the US poor but they are not, by any means, the majority of the poor. If AA was truly intended to help combat economic disadvantage then it should employ an economic test (basis?) for its use.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I'm not ignoring anything - you keep ignoring the claim that AA was alleged to have been based on economic disadvantage. I agree 100% that blacks are not only included, but overrepresented, among the US poor but they are not, by any means, the majority of the poor. If AA was truly intended to help combat economic disadvantage then it should employ an economic test (basis?) for its use.
Click to expand...

AA was created to overcome the disadvantages of being part of a discriminated group. It has nothing to do with economic disadvantage. faceplam
 
RAMOSS said:
Dude, what would you suggest for getting a diversified environment , and to give minorities a change to get out of the cycle of poverty?
Click to expand...

You think the goal of higher education should be a diversified environment?

What I suggest if minorities are not doing well in higher education is to take a look at why minorities are not doing well and address the real problem.
 
calamity said:
AA was created to overcome the disadvantages of being part of a discriminated group. It has nothing to do with economic disadvantage. faceplam
Click to expand...

Which is exactly why I challenged the (initial) assertion that AA had an economic disadvantage basis. AA enables (legally?) placing a richer black kid ahead of a poorer white (or Asian) kid out of "fairness" even if the black kid's grades and standardized test scores were lower.
 
calamity said:
You could not be more wrong.
Click to expand...

This is a thread about Asian Americans being discriminated against because they have by Harvard standards, undesirable personalities.

I didn't realize liberals are okay with discrimination. Okay.
 
Bucky said:
This is a thread about Asian Americans being discriminated against because they have by Harvard standards, undesirable personalities.

I didn't realize liberals are okay with discrimination. Okay.
Click to expand...

Of course they are.
 
veritas1 said:
This diversity God will destroy us eventually. I don't want a diverse team of surgeons, I want the BEST surgeons. I want the BEST pilots, the BEST engineers, the BEST lawyers, etc. The idea that having a diverse team is better than having the best team, is a recipe for failure, if not disaster. Sports doesn't operate on the diversity model, it operates on the winning model and that's how we should operate as a nation. Intelligence and ability is innate and people who have it will find an avenue to display it, regardless of race or gender.
Click to expand...

SO you are saying that blacks can't be the best of those, even if they come from a tough neighborhood ? Are you saying that kids from the middle of the country or from the far west aren't among the best. That is the reason for getting a diverse group, so you can find the best. Many of these same schools give the right to kids whose parents went to Harvard or Yale the right to admit, even if they are not in the top of those who apply. Are you saying they shouldn't get in, that a school may only use grades and test scores? If a school wants to use whatever means they wish to get a diverse student body, they should be able to do so.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I'm not ignoring anything - you keep ignoring the claim that AA was alleged to have been based on economic disadvantage. I agree 100% that blacks are not only included, but overrepresented, among the US poor but they are not, by any means, the majority of the poor. If AA was truly intended to help combat economic disadvantage then it should employ an economic test (basis?) for its use.
Click to expand...

You do realize that we are no longer talking about AA, we are talking about schools that desire a diverse population. Take Harvard, they not only use grades, test scores and race, they also use where the students come from. They want students from all over the country and from all over the world so they have a real diversity of students, not only by race, but also by location. If you are saying they can use only grades and test scores, you may not actually getting the best and brightest and students that once they graduate know how to work with people that are different from themselves..
 
independentusa said:
SO you are saying that blacks can't be the best of those, even if they come from a tough neighborhood ? Are you saying that kids from the middle of the country or from the far west aren't among the best. That is the reason for getting a diverse group, so you can find the best. Many of these same schools give the right to kids whose parents went to Harvard or Yale the right to admit, even if they are not in the top of those who apply. Are you saying they shouldn't get in, that a school may only use grades and test scores? If a school wants to use whatever means they wish to get a diverse student body, they should be able to do so.
Click to expand...

Imagine if your company hired a dynamic worker that boosted revenue by 10% every year. He's working at that position because simply, he is the most qualified person for the job.

And then imagine the government forcing your company needing to replace that employee because they had to meet a racial quota. Perhaps they had to replace him with a refugee worker or someone that wasn't as nearly as qualified, but because of their race, refugee status, etc..

How is that a. fair, b. Good for the bottom line?
 
calamity said:
You could not be more wrong.
Click to expand...

I think you value diversity over common sense and productivity.

Imagine if the NBA implemented racial quotas.

The Cleveland Cavaliers want to re-sign LeBron James but can't because they have too many black players already. They want to create a diverse atmosphere and fulfill their white person quote so sign Brook Lopez instead.

As silly as this example is, that's how many companies like Starbucks operates on.
 
veritas1 said:
Exactly. All college applications should be anonymous, IMO; no name, race or gender, just your qualifications. If we ran the universities and the business world on such standards, we'd solve a lot of problems. Nobody should get into Harvard by virtue of what they are but by virtue of what qualities and abilities they bring.
Click to expand...

You mean like Trump getting into Wharton based on his family and the Alumni system ? Is that not the wealthy getting in not on there abilities, but on who there brother maybe ?
 
independentusa said:
You do realize that we are no longer talking about AA, we are talking about schools that desire a diverse population. Take Harvard, they not only use grades, test scores and race, they also use where the students come from. They want students from all over the country and from all over the world so they have a real diversity of students, not only by race, but also by location. If you are saying they can use only grades and test scores, you may not actually getting the best and brightest and students that once they graduate know how to work with people that are different from themselves..
Click to expand...

Please do not tell me what "we" are, or are not, talking about. I was, am and will continue to talk about a false claim that AA was about helping the economically disadvantaged.

I agree that diversity can be a good thing, if it naturally occurs, but must note that for everyone 'helped' (included) by a system designed to get 'just the right mix' (we need more blacks, women or Hispanics) someone else may be 'hurt' (excluded) by that system (simply because they were not black, female or Hispanic).

Most don't want the most diverse doctor, lawyer or engineer possible, working on/for them, they want the best doctor, lawyer or engineer possible, working on/for them.
 
I know some of my fellow progressives won't agree, but I think we've reached a point where Asians (mainly Chinese and Japanese and Koreans) need to be considered a privileged group almost on the same level of white people. They have the benefit of positive stereotypes and many of them live well off.

No offense to them, but I can kind of believe the personality assessments of them. They're not really well-rounded and aren't the most friendly people there are.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom