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Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion[W:119]********************

Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

So what was the excuse for hating America during the Obama years? It's been all down hill from there.

Blind nationalist pride is for followers with no mind of their own. Ironically, many of those people claim to be 'individualists.'
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

Ben's a lot younger than you and he never implied that we should love it or leave it.
He said that Democrats appear to prioritize their partisanship, their liberal idealogue before their love of country whereas Republicans put their love of country before their politics.
Perhaps you should actually try to read what Shapiro wrote?

Ben's a lot younger, you nailed it, why screw with perfection.
He's a bright kid but he's also a little bit full of himself and in that article, WHICH I DID READ, thank you, I saw nothing to moderate anything I said in response, therefore it stands.

And I am OUT.
Not devoting one more iota of energy to this nonsense.
You people need to get a life because I'm starting to sense an increasing level of bullying, belligerence and cowardice as the days toward November approach.
In fact, it might even be time to check Ben's Russian credentials because his material is starting to smell of borscht.

Borscht.jpg
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

Blind nationalist pride is for followers with no mind of their own. Ironically, many of those people claim to be 'individualists.'

The older I get, the more the sound of authoritarians questioning the patriotism of others pisses me off.
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

Republicans put their love of country before their politics.

B.S. We saw the true colors of many Republicans when they spent the 4th kissing Russian ass.
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

As a libertarian (small 'L")--I wish wish wish there was some way to add that and/or 'classical liberal' to the political lean list--I am for a strong but small, efficient, effective, necessary central government as the Founders envisioned it. But in all things be pragmatic. it is NECESSARY for the federal government to defend our borders, because if the border states cannot and will not or do not, the consequences can affect all the states. It is NECESSARY for the government to regulate what products can be legally imported into the country as there is no way to protect say Oklahoma from a dangerous product imported into Texas.

I don't think we have to abolish the Dept. of Education but bust it down to an agency under say Health and Human Services and make it useful for the states instead of a dictatorial agency. A staff of maybe 20 or 30 people could collect data from all over the country--test scores, college entrance requirements, available curriculum, and such--and make that available to the states and/or school systems or even individual schools requesting it so they can evaluate how they are doing compared to other states and/or schools, develop curriculum to help students qualify for college, and have access to important resources that they need. The Education Dept. would then need a tiny fraction of the $68 billion annual budget it now has, would no longer be doing unconstitutional federal meddling into education, and would be invaluable for the public and private schools.

The U.S. government is an enormous, bloated, and growing bureaucratic nightmare that is sucking more and more resources out of the economy while being less and less responsive to the actual needs of the people. There are so many ways it could be made smaller, more efficient, more useful, more effective in what it MUST do, not to mention less intrusive and much less expensive while being a government of the people FOR the people again.

While they might surely tweak it here and there, I think most American conservatives/libertarians would relate to my argument here as pro-American.

I think most Democrats/progressives/modern day American liberals would see and characterize my argument as anti-government or wanting to destroy the government. And America will be seen as something at least somewhat bad because such arguments exist.

Off topic, but I definitely am more of a classical liberal than I am a slightly conservative. I don't think of myself as a march the line Republican either because socially, I am a liberal as so long as the government does not fund abortions or mandate that religious bakers design cakes for Gay weddings. I am for Gay marriage.
Yes, I see you as pro-American and I too, share your worry for the amassed debt, the bureaucratic burdomsome nightmare known as the federal gov. Your last sentence is being emphasized in bold. So, so true.
I was disappointed to see Trump add to the bill, but to be fair to him, if Clinton was in, I shudder to think of all the bloat she would have added. Her Zumwalt would make Trump's ship seem like a dinghy. ;)
 
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Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

America:
1. Where people of color are being systematically genocided by a racist justice system and racist police.
2. Where women's work is valued less than men's and their bodily autonomy is infringed upon by religious extremists.
3. Where children die in schools every day and we just shrug it off as the cost of "freedumb".
4. Where the rich buy our elections and make all of our laws.
5. Where LGBTQIARN people are discriminated against.
6. Where we deny the facts of climate change and go on like nothing is happening because we've become a bunch of science-hating anti-intellectuals.
7. Where health care and higher education is a privilege of the rich.
8. Where we wage war on middle eastern countries so that Halliburton can make lots of money.
9. Where ignorance is a virtue and something to be proud of.
10. Where the minority vote is suppressed.

So why don't you right-wingers tell me what there is to be proud of? Because "Murica! Freedumb! **** Yeah!" doesn't count.
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

B.S. We saw the true colors of many Republicans when they spent the 4th kissing Russian ass.

Nonsense.
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

What is so wrong about loving one's country? I am proud to be an American and at the same time I am proud of all my personal accomplishments. Why can't you be proud of both?
This is not an authoritarian country, so stop with that :bs, false narrative. Who has robbed you of your liberty and freedom?
Have you ever been to an authoritarian country? Try living in one, and I am sure you would come running back to this country where freedom and liberty are a way of life. Maybe you as an American don't really understand just how damn lucky you are to live in one of the greatest countries in the world.

Aren't we a Christian country? Isn't pride a sin? Christians believe in humility not pride.
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

So that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 1:31

Patriotism is just tribalism. And where was the patriotism of the South during the Civil War? Where was the patriotism of our founding fathers to Great Britain?

The whole point of these kinds of arguments are, "We love America more than you." That's a pathetic childish argument.
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

So that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 1:31

Patriotism is just tribalism. And where was the patriotism of the South during the Civil War? Where was the patriotism of our founding fathers to Great Britain?

Our founding fathers were patriotic British citizens, the basis for the American revolution is because the Americans felt that the British parliament was denying them their rights as British citizens.
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

"Republicans want an America in line with founding ideals and myths; Democrats want an America that rejects those founding ideals and myths. Those are two very different countries indeed."
Hammer nailed? I think so.



Ben Shapiro: Why Aren't Democrats Proud To Be American? | Opinion

Well if theres value in this OPINION piece that theres nothing that proves im more independent than anything because i dont fit either side at all. i have some parts of both and think some parts of both are insane.

also im my experience i dont think the descriptions of right and left really fit at all in blanket form. I dont know many people this fits. it seems it fits a smaller extremists, not extremist as in evil but extremist views as in unchangeable group of both sides.
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

Interesting to me how many from the left appear to be triggered by Shapiro's opinion. Calling him names; inhuman, calling Republicans pejoratives such as racist, etc., calling the POTUS horrible things. More than reinforces my opinion that Shapiro not only nailed it, he broke the hammer.

Instead of shooting the messenger, attempting to derail the actual thread premise, how about some actually try to explain why the above aforementioned poll shows that the Democrats polled are only proud of their country when a Democrat president holds office, representing their liberal ideologue?

TIA!

The polls showed Dem. pride at 45 percent and 32 percent, a moderate decline in the pride percentage, not its elimination.

A point about bigotry - it is a personal failing which exists around the globe. I don’t know any Democrat who thinks it is a national characteristic with particular application to the US.

But it’s true that many Democrats in contrast to many Republicans are not super patriots to the point of having to identify themselves with the nation in order to feel a satisfactory measure of self worth.
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

See there is a very cynical way of viewing the country and it's history, and there is a very celebrated way of viewing this country and it's history.

To a cynic, it may feel like they are just being realistic... but when it comes to a lot of Leftists it is not a very balanced cynicism, it is a cynicism based on a particular narrative.

The truth is, yes America is not perfect... and lot of individuals have done some bad things.... but in the same breadth, America is truly an amazing Country, starting from one of the most interesting, intellectual, revolutionary, world changing origins of any country in the world.... and has since created the most lasting peace that human kind has ever seen. This is the longest period in recorded history that the worlds major economic powers have not gone to war with each other... and that is entirely on the USA's shoulders.

It is very easy to intellectually experiment with the most cynical views of America... but if you are going down that path it would also good to have the same approach with everyone and everything else. No one is innocent.

There is nothing wrong with being realistic. I can both celebrate certain things about this country and critique things I think were mistakes, and it doesn't even matter which party is in power at the time. What lasting peace? It's insulting when conservatives act like having a clear-eyed view of things automatically means someone hates this country. It's unpatriotic to ignore the bad things because they aren't fun to think about.
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

Our founding fathers were patriotic British citizens, the basis for the American revolution is because the Americans felt that the British parliament was denying them their rights as British citizens.

So, weren't they being unpatriotic by forming their own country? Wasn't Benedict Arnold actually a patriot?

America is built on the idea that people have the right to overthrow their government. We're a nation founded by rebels.
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

It's unpatriotic to ignore the bad things because they aren't fun to think about.

But that's the agenda of these ultra-nationalists. They use "patriotism" as a way to attack those who criticize their government. They believe themselves to be more "patriotic" but they never explain what that really means. It means they ignore any mistakes their nation makes (unless those mistakes were done by liberals). If you were against the Vietnam war then you weren't a patriot. If you were against the Korean War, Iraq War, the invasion of Grenada then you weren't a patriot. It's very much tied to their military obsession.
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

So, weren't they being unpatriotic by forming their own country? Wasn't Benedict Arnold actually a patriot?

America is built on the idea that people have the right to overthrow their government. We're a nation founded by rebels.

They had demanded that be given the same rights as English citizens, which the English government was unable to agree to.

If the English would not treat the Americans as fellow countrymen with equal rights as citizens of the mother country, then independence was the only way the Americans would gain their rights.

The revolution was initially about the Americans demanding that be treated as English citizens and be given the same rights as the citizens of England. The English Parliament refused to grant these rights to the colonists because they considered Americans to be colonists.
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

Off topic, but I definitely am more of a classical liberal than I am a slightly conservative. I don't think of myself as a march the line Republican either because socially, I am a liberal as so long as the government does not fund abortions or mandate that religious bakers design cakes for Gay weddings. I am for Gay marriage.
Yes, I see you as pro-American and I too, share your worry for the amassed debt, the bureaucratic burdomsome nightmare known as the federal gov. Your last sentence is being emphasized in bold. So, so true.
I was disappointed to see Trump add to the bill, but to be fair to him, if Clinton was in, I shudder to think of all the bloat she would have added. Her Zumwalt would make Trump's ship seem like a dinghy. ;)

We are pretty close in political ideology. I don't identify with a political party though I do register Republican as they talk closer to my point of view than anybody else whether they walk the talk or not. We have to register with a political party to vote in the primary elections here. I love my married gay friends, have attended gay weddings, and oppose discrimination against anybody just because they are gay. I would very much oppose a businessman who refused to serve gay people. But I strongly support anybody's choice bake or not bake a cake for a gay wedding or participate or not participate in any other activity that they choose not to participate in.

And yes, I wish the President was more forceful on holding the line on wasteful and politically expedient spending, but I figure he is choosing the hills most advantageous to stand and fight on. He has slowed the increase in the national debt, but probably made the best deal he could at the time to accomplish what he sees as the most important stuff to do. So much accomplished in the first year and a half. We can keep our fingers crossed that it will keep getting better.
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

Ben Shapiro is a ****ing moron; who cares what he says, or thinks?
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

Should we just put blinders on that a immoral,perverted,pathological liar,who has made America an embarrassment to the world is President?

Stop bringing up Obama.
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

Why are Republicans racist?

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See what a stupid question looks like in reverse?

Okay, I will see what the stupid question you wrote^ looks like in reverse.

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Why are Democrats racists?

Roseann:)
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

They had demanded that be given the same rights as English citizens, which the English government was unable to agree to.

If the English would not treat the Americans as fellow countrymen with equal rights as citizens of the mother country, then independence was the only way the Americans would gain their rights.

The revolution was initially about the Americans demanding that be treated as English citizens and be given the same rights as the citizens of England. The English Parliament refused to grant these rights to the colonists because they considered Americans to be colonists.

Then surely you would agree that Blacks in America weren't treated like American citizens until the Civil Rights Act, right? And even after that things were slow to change.

So then you respect Colin Kaepernick's refusal to stand patriotically because he feels that minorities aren't being treated like equal citizens?

Also, you're just sidestepping the patriotism issue. It seems you're saying it's OK not to be patriotic if you feel your government isn't treating you fairly. That proves that patriotism in and of itself is not a virtue.
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

"Republicans want an America in line with founding ideals and myths; Democrats want an America that rejects those founding ideals and myths. Those are two very different countries indeed."
Hammer nailed? I think so.


Ben Shapiro: Why Aren't Democrats Proud To Be American? | Opinion

I rather like Ben Shapiro's opinions on many subjects including this subject.

Hammer nailed? Yes, I think so. But, I'm fairly sure there will be some disagreement concerning this subject. Looking forward to reading all the posts.

Thanks for the thread and the information.


Roseann:)
 
Re: Ben shapiro: Why aren't democrats proud to be american? | opinion

Why does Shapiro try to pass as a human?

Ben Shapiro isn't passing. Why you may ask? Because, he is a human being.
 
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