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If tariffs stay, how many companies will move manufacturing overseas?

independentusa

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Harley-Davidson says they may have to move some of their manufacturing overseas to take the sting out of the Trump tariffs. Don't know if that is true or if they were planning on doing so anyway. My question is how many other companies may follow suit and move manufacturing overseas if the tariffs are here to stay?
 
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You may find the video here -- Assessing the Impact of Various Trade Scenarios -- useful in sussing the answer to the title question.

ETA:
This too may be of some interest -- The 4 Biggest Consequences of Trump’s Disastrous Tariff Plan -- though it doesn't directly address the manufacturing question you've asked. Ditto this: Some Global Effects of President Trump’sEconomic Program.

Thanks for the info. I still wonder why Trump did not just get together with our allies and all take on China. Seems to me that would have helped more than fighting everyone at once.
 
Thanks for the info. I still wonder why Trump did not just get together with our allies and all take on China. Seems to me that would have helped more than fighting everyone at once.


Because that would have been too much like the TPP.

And because Trump likes people fighting over him.

And because if there's any economics that he actually understands, it's the economics of destruction, not mutual growth.



Remember this is the guy who gloated that he welcomed a downturn in the economy, because that's when he made his best profits.
 
The company that makes 'Indian' brand-name motorcycles (Polaris Industries) said it may also move some manufacturing operations overseas.
 
Common sense is neither sense nor common.
-- Jim Taylor



Thanks for the info. I still wonder why Trump did not just get together with our allies and all take on China. Seems to me that would have helped more than fighting everyone at once.
Several reasons:

For those reasons, Trump's BS wouldn't be well received by our allies who follow sound/cogent science not their abducted ideas.



Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving taxicabs and cutting hair.
-- George Burns​
 
Harley-Davidson says they may have to move some of their manufacturing overseas to take the sting out of the Trump tariffs. Don't know if that is true or if they were planning on doing so anyway. My question is how many other companies may follow suit and move manufacturing overseas if the tariffs are here to stay?

Harley would only move a small part of their manufacturing overseas. The same think that makes them move out, would have other companies move in.

The reason would be tariffs other counties put on USA built Harley's. As we put higher tariffs on imports, we would have more factories built here.

How many people in other countries buy USA made goods anyway? I'll bet those lost jobs are a real small number compared to the number of jobs gained by more USA manufacturing, because imports start costing more.
 
Thanks for the info. I still wonder why Trump did not just get together with our allies and all take on China. Seems to me that would have helped more than fighting everyone at once.

Look at what kind work Trump does and you may understand why he behaves the way he does. The bad part about it is that the guy really does not know what he is doing but keeps telling his gullible followers that he whatever he does is "genius." The sad part about it is his followers believe anything he says.
 
Look at what kind work Trump does and you may understand why he behaves the way he does. The bad part about it is that the guy really does not know what he is doing but keeps telling his gullible followers that he whatever he does is "genius." The sad part about it is his followers believe anything he says.

Fixed:

Look at what kind work Hillary does and you may understand why she behaves the way she does. The bad part about it is that the gal really does not know what she is doing but keeps telling her gullible followers that whatever she does is "genius." The sad part about it is her followers believe anything she says.

You can apply that to just about any politician.
 
Harley would only move a small part of their manufacturing overseas. The same think that makes them move out, would have other companies move in.

The reason would be tariffs other counties put on USA built Harley's. As we put higher tariffs on imports, we would have more factories built here.

How many people in other countries buy USA made goods anyway? I'll bet those lost jobs are a real small number compared to the number of jobs gained by more USA manufacturing, because imports start costing more.

The US is the second largest exporter of goods by dollar value in the world. So in other words lots of people in other countries by US made goods
 
The US is the second largest exporter of goods by dollar value in the world. So in other words lots of people in other countries by US made goods

Actually, the third if you properly count in the European Union. But if you do it by GDP, we are near the bottom.
 
Thanks for the info. I still wonder why Trump did not just get together with our allies and all take on China. Seems to me that would have helped more than fighting everyone at once.

Because some of our "allies" already have deals with China that are not beneficial to the US. In fact, some of those deals are directly and indirectly impacted by our steel and aluminum tariffs.

Since it takes at least two to "get together", those allies need to be willing parties. They aren't. Instead, they prefer to play the tit-for-tat tariff war stuff.
 
Actually, the third if you properly count in the European Union. But if you do it by GDP, we are near the bottom.

It does not change the fact that the US does export a lot of goods that others have to buy
 
It does not change the fact that the US does export a lot of goods that others have to buy

Have I ever discounted it by that metric?

My problem is that we sell significant less in currency than we buy.
 
Tariffs creating jobs is a fantasy. Stop for God sake. Read something, almost anything instead of tapping out nonsense on the keyboard.

Tariffs raise prices. When the June numbers come in, the rate of Inflation will have grown 5 consecutive months. Go back and find 5 consecutive months when the rate has risen and the Tariffs have not even clamped down yet. Then if you think the rate increases will cool of for July, go back and find 6 straight months that the rate has increased. Good luck with that one. Once Inflation has you by the nuts you are done...toast. We know the way out and its not wonderful. I am not sure we will even have the guts to do it. This is nightmare in slow motion But its picking up steam. Looked at your food bill lately Trumplicans?

Companies will spread their manufacturing around just to protect themselves. There won't be wholesale moves. Thats idiotic. But its also the least of our worries.
 
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Companies will spread their manufacturing around just to protect themselves. There won't be wholesale moves. Thats idiotic. But its also the least of our worries.

Corporations have less costs in changes when they are located several places. It's simple diversification. They already are.
 
Because some of our "allies" already have deals with China that are not beneficial to the US. In fact, some of those deals are directly and indirectly impacted by our steel and aluminum tariffs.
Yeah, that's bull****.

The EU slammed China with tariffs on cheap steel in 2016. They also joined the US in a WTO action against cheap Chinese steel in April 2018.

The EU and China do have some free trade agreements, but they have nothing to do with the US.


Since it takes at least two to "get together", those allies need to be willing parties. They aren't.
Actually, they were, until Trump started attacking them, and they realized that Trump was too unstable and unreliable to be trusted with any deals.

For example, the whole point of the TPP was to contain China, and strengthen ties between the US and many of its allies to better compete against China. What did Trump do? Drop the US out of the TPP.

Another example? With the *cough* brilliantly named FART Act, Trump seems ready to exit the WTO. This is despite the fact that the US wins well over 90% of the cases it files with the WTO.

Oh, and guess what? Slapping our allies and trading partners with tariffs only makes them more willing to work with China. As soon as Trump started screaming at Mexico, for example, Chinese trade envoys were headed for Mexico City. China is making overtures to the EU right now; they are resisting... for the moment.

Face it. When it comes to international trade, Trump is a blithering idiot, who is just giving China exactly what it wants.
 
Fixed:

Look at what kind work Hillary does and you may understand why she behaves the way she does. The bad part about it is that the gal really does not know what she is doing but keeps telling her gullible followers that whatever she does is "genius." The sad part about it is her followers believe anything she says.

You can apply that to just about any politician.

Deflects to Hillary, you people are like robots, just keep the same dumb deflections over and over again
 
Deflects to Hillary, you people are like robots, just keep the same dumb deflections over and over again

I was pointing out it the cheap words are nonsense.

Didn't you see my point? I apply such logic equal across political spectrums, rather than being partisan.
 
So its on now, as of 12:01 Friday morning and its as misguided as ever.

The issue is China IP theft, not the trade imbalance and this does nothing to resolve China IP theft.
- Ultimately these tariffs will simply raise prices which is a form of a flat tax and we all know who gets hit hardest with flat taxes. Ultimately it will cost jobs.
- Worse, Trump is targeting allies with tariffs, countries that have really nothing to do with China's IP theft.
- In fact, Trump is distancing us from allies which is frankly about the same thing as throwing them into the arms of adversaries. In fact, China is already wooing other multinationals and can simply use stricter standards against US corporations and lighter standards for non-US corporations.
- China will go outside the tariffs fight in their effort to fight Trump.
 
So its on now, as of 12:01 Friday morning and its as misguided as ever.

The issue is China IP theft, not the trade imbalance and this does nothing to resolve China IP theft.
- Ultimately these tariffs will simply raise prices which is a form of a flat tax and we all know who gets hit hardest with flat taxes. Ultimately it will cost jobs.
- Worse, Trump is targeting allies with tariffs, countries that have really nothing to do with China's IP theft.
- In fact, Trump is distancing us from allies which is frankly about the same thing as throwing them into the arms of adversaries. In fact, China is already wooing other multinationals and can simply use stricter standards against US corporations and lighter standards for non-US corporations.
- China will go outside the tariffs fight in their effort to fight Trump.

Yes, it will cost Chinese jobs, and move manufacturing back to America. Employ more people, and raise wages and the supply of labor vs. demand of labor changes.
 
Yes, it will cost Chinese jobs, and move manufacturing back to America. Employ more people, and raise wages and the supply of labor vs. demand of labor changes.
Y'know, it's funny how in the history of tariffs, that has never happened.

Tariffs increase prices, which in turn reduces demand. Slapping a tariff on an import does not magically reduce any of the costs of domestic production; in fact, it gives domestic producers an excuse to raise their prices, as long as it is still below the foreign competitors.

In order to maintain their profit margins, what will American companies do? Automate. They won't replace Chinese factories with expensive American workers, they'll replace them with robots.

American employers won't raise wages. We're already at sub-4% U3 unemployment, with labor shortages all over, and employers won't increase wages. Employers are screaming bloody murder about minimum wage increases, and trying to automate everything they can. Heck, it seems like some companies would rather go bankrupt rather than raise wages.

Tariffs also result in retaliation, of all sorts. China is already hitting the US with retaliatory tariffs, which means that American workers who produce goods and services for export will lose their jobs; and farmers who can't sell their produce will get hurt, and possibly lose their farms. They're already holding up goods in customs; agricultural imports, for example, sit in the docks until they are spoiled, and get sent back to the US. That's just a taste of what China will do when fighting back.

We saw most of this when the Obama administration whacked China with tariffs on steel, from 250% to 550% in2015 -- I take it you missed that one? China spent years dumping cheap steel on the global markets, so the US steel manufacturers whined about it. (Even our #MAGA president, by the way, used that cheap Chinese steel in his construction projects.) So, the US and then EU slammed Chinese steel with stiff tariffs. What happened? First, the American steel companies raised their prices, because they knew they could charge more and still charge less than China. As a result, US construction and goods that use steel increased in cost. Were more American jobs created? Nope. Steel is already pretty heavily automated, so they didn't need to hire thousands of workers to increase output (which, yeah, didn't increase that much). To add insult to injury, China just routed its steel exports through Vietnam to avoid the tariffs; it took a few years to catch them, too.

Similarly, the Obama administration slapped tariffs on Chinese tires in 2011. One think tank found that it saved 1200 tire jobs... and killed 4000 retail jobs. US consumers just switched to cheap Korean tires, because American-made tires were still too expensive for most American's budgets and/or tastes. Plus, China retaliated with a tariff on chicken, which cost the poultry industry $1 billion in lost revenues.

And yes, the same people who oppose tariffs now held pretty much the same view in 2015.

Then there is the granddaddy of protectionism, the Smoot-Hawley Tariffs. When the entire planet was in the grips of the Great Depression, the US slammed everyone with import tariffs, under the assumption this would force American companies to hire. Guess what? It backfired spectacularly. Despite dire economic straits of their own, our trading partners retaliated, causing even more damage to the US and global economy. Smoot-Hawley didn't save jobs, what it did was increase prices, kill export jobs, and exacerbate the Great Depression.

So no, this is not going to work. China is not going to cave. American consumers, already stretched thin, will not patriotically pony up more dollars for domestically-produced goods. American employers, who would rather kiss a shark than increase labor costs, will not hire millions of Americans, while giving raises to millions more. The tariffs will increase costs and kill jobs. Yet again.
 
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