• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

You were worried about socialism, what about fascism?

I

independentusa

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Messages
14,607
Reaction score
9,303
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I have constantly over the years, and I have been listening for a lot of years, have heard conservatives complain about the country being too socialistic. I have yet heard any complaints from the conservatives in this country about the move toward fascism in both this country and around the world. I guess if I had to chose which way is the worst, I would say fascism. Between the wealthy who control elections and the religious right who want the government to push their form of morale, I think we are headed in a very bad direction and most don't even see it coming. It is similar in the way things happened in Germany in the 30"s and it scare the hell out of me.
 
Between fascism and socialism, I'd easily say fascism is the worse option.

However, I consider the chance of an actual "American Reich" to form to be unlikely, at least in the very near future. There's not enough people who are that ideologically extremist to bring upon such a thing.

I see potential for generic nationalism, but not something akin to the holocaust dictatorship led by Adolf Hitler in the 20th century.
 
The thing that puts our Republic in danger is that too many people have lost there aversion to free stuff. I knew people who lived during the Great Depression that would endure their family going hungry rather than accept a handout. Those people are very rare today.

Today those same people are reliable Democrat voters, though, especially the ones born in the 1800s.
 
Last edited:
independentusa said:
I have constantly over the years, and I have been listening for a lot of years, have heard conservatives complain about the country being too socialistic. I have yet heard any complaints from the conservatives in this country about the move toward fascism in both this country and around the world. I guess if I had to chose which way is the worst, I would say fascism. Between the wealthy who control elections and the religious right who want the government to push their form of morale, I think we are headed in a very bad direction and most don't even see it coming. It is similar in the way things happened in Germany in the 30"s and it scare the hell out of me.
Click to expand...

Very few people in American actually know what fascism is, it is become an all purpose label for government that does not carry out the will of the speaker, that is to say that it is in america with Modern Moron Americans the word is almost meaningless.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2015/12/10/9886152/donald-trump-fascism
 
Last edited:
We should all be worried about any form of government that wants to take away our rights.
 
independentusa said:
I have constantly over the years, and I have been listening for a lot of years, have heard conservatives complain about the country being too socialistic. I have yet heard any complaints from the conservatives in this country about the move toward fascism in both this country and around the world. I guess if I had to chose which way is the worst, I would say fascism. Between the wealthy who control elections and the religious right who want the government to push their form of morale, I think we are headed in a very bad direction and most don't even see it coming. It is similar in the way things happened in Germany in the 30"s and it scare the hell out of me.
Click to expand...

Noted. You want America to be more like the rest of the world, right?
 
Tres1B said:
Between fascism and socialism, I'd easily say fascism is the worse option.

However, I consider the chance of an actual "American Reich" to form to be unlikely, at least in the very near future. There's not enough people who are that ideologically extremist to bring upon such a thing.

I see potential for generic nationalism, but not something akin to the holocaust dictatorship led by Adolf Hitler in the 20th century.
Click to expand...

More a slow slide into a corporate controlled dystopia. With a small "aristocracy" and the rest of us "worthless eaters" struggling to survive.

Probably lots of forms of indenture.
 
SDET said:
The thing that puts our Republic in danger is that too many people have lost there aversion to free stuff. I knew people who lived during the Great Depression that would endure their family going hungry rather than accept a handout. Those people are very rare today.

Today those same people are reliable Democrat voters, though, especially the ones born in the 1800s.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if those 115 to 125 years old citizens organize into a voting block the nation is fairly ****ed.
 
Just to comment on the thread, I doubt many even know what fascism is or where it originated from, but rather use it as a catch all for anything they disagree with, fascism and hitler seem to be the lazy insult hurled in debate, with most hurling it not even having a clue at what they are hurling.
 
beerftw said:
Just to comment on the thread, I doubt many even know what fascism is or where it originated from, but rather use it as a catch all for anything they disagree with, fascism and hitler seem to be the lazy insult hurled in debate, with most hurling it not even having a clue at what they are hurling.
Click to expand...

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/fascism
Here is just one of the definitions I found, but all were about the same. TO me it sounds a lot where this country is headed with trump and the GOP, and the rise of White supremacy.
 
independentusa said:
I have constantly over the years, and I have been listening for a lot of years, have heard conservatives complain about the country being too socialistic. I have yet heard any complaints from the conservatives in this country about the move toward fascism in both this country and around the world. I guess if I had to chose which way is the worst, I would say fascism. Between the wealthy who control elections and the religious right who want the government to push their form of morale, I think we are headed in a very bad direction and most don't even see it coming. It is similar in the way things happened in Germany in the 30"s and it scare the hell out of me.
Click to expand...
The fascists don't see fascism. They just see their team winning.
 
SDET said:
The thing that puts our Republic in danger is that too many people have lost there aversion to free stuff. I knew people who lived during the Great Depression that would endure their family going hungry rather than accept a handout. Those people are very rare today.

Today those same people are reliable Democrat voters, though, especially the ones born in the 1800s.
Click to expand...

Definition of stupidity: enduring your family going hungry during the depression rather that accept a handout. So my mom should not have accepted a free Caesarian section from a great, generous doc during the depression and died in agony because she was to small to have my sister vaginally? That when my father lost his job after V-J day after helping America win the war, they should have rejected the food and firewood offered by neighbors when she was eight months pregnant with me?

There are probably books out there that can tell you how the real world works and what our obligations are to one another. Off the top of my head I can name Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, but there is probably stuff in the Torah and the Koran that is instructive as well .
 
Socialism has killed more people than Fascism.
 
independentusa said:
I have constantly over the years, and I have been listening for a lot of years, have heard conservatives complain about the country being too socialistic. I have yet heard any complaints from the conservatives in this country about the move toward fascism in both this country and around the world. I guess if I had to chose which way is the worst, I would say fascism. Between the wealthy who control elections and the religious right who want the government to push their form of morale, I think we are headed in a very bad direction and most don't even see it coming. It is similar in the way things happened in Germany in the 30"s and it scare the hell out of me.
Click to expand...

Venezuela’s and Cuba are just wonderful bastions of Socialism. Venezuela illustrated how fast things can go badly.

You claim wealthy control elections?

Hmmmmmmmm.

Trump, the ultimate anti-establishment candidate won with a limited budget, no support from the media, little support from his party, had to beat a candidate supported the corrupt leadership of the FBI, CIA and DoJ.

Religious Right is a threat? Because they have standards and morals and you have neither?

Pssssst... you realize it was Obama who turned the DoJ, FBI and CIA (IRS too) as tools to attack and spy on an opposition candidate. But this is moral. Of the highest standards. Or is it the closest to Nazi-like behavior we’ve seen?

PS. Relax... those on the right simply want to reduce the amount of government intrusion. And if you don’t like morals or believe in standards, that’s Ok... for you there is always the Democrat Party.
 
Maccabee said:
Socialism has killed more people than Fascism.
Click to expand...

Fascism was a fire that burned hot and died out quickly. Totalitarian Communism lasted as a prominent ideology for years, all the way till the fall of the Soviet Union. It's not fair to say one killed more than the other, obviously an extremist ideology that lasted shortly would kill less than one that lasted many decades.

Had the Soviet Union fallen in World War 2, and the Third Reich under Hitler been the superpower to appose ideas of democracies throughout the second half of the 20th century, I'd guarantee fascism would end the more deadly ideology.

Realistically, neither are better. Arguments about "But commies are worse than nazis" are redundant, as we should be concerned about any government that wishes to take our rights away.
 
Tres1B said:
Fascism was a fire that burned hot and died out quickly. Totalitarian Communism lasted as a prominent ideology for years, all the way till the fall of the Soviet Union. It's not fair to say one killed more than the other, obviously an extremist ideology that lasted shortly would kill less than one that lasted many decades.

Had the Soviet Union fallen in World War 2, and the Third Reich under Hitler been the superpower to appose ideas of democracies throughout the second half of the 20th century, I'd guarantee fascism would end the more deadly ideology.

Realistically, neither are better. Arguments about "But commies are worse than nazis" are redundant, as we should be concerned about any government that wishes to take our rights away.
Click to expand...

You kinda make my point. With Fascism today, The vast majority will run the other direction at the first hint of it being implemented. To the point of making false alarms. With socialism/communism, You will find large groups of people and entire countries praising the "benefits" of sharing everything. Which is probably why communism/socialism is still kicking.
 
Nickyjo said:
Definition of stupidity: enduring your family going hungry during the depression rather that accept a handout. So my mom should not have accepted a free Caesarian section from a great, generous doc during the depression and died in agony because she was to small to have my sister vaginally? That when my father lost his job after V-J day after helping America win the war, they should have rejected the food and firewood offered by neighbors when she was eight months pregnant with me?

There are probably books out there that can tell you how the real world works and what our obligations are to one another. Off the top of my head I can name Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, but there is probably stuff in the Torah and the Koran that is instructive as well .
Click to expand...

You notice that your help came from friends, neighbors and charity... not the government?

I think that’s the point.

You get government stealing a massive amount of your money and redistributing it to buy votes and you get corruption... in fact, that is corruption itself.

Further, you tax the **** of the citizens and charity dries up... as do jobs, opportunity, investment. EU countries are not known for their charity, but an omnipotent, overbearing state.

The more government intrusion and oppression, the more barbaric and corrupt the society becomes.

Just look at the Democrat Party and what their ideas have wrought. Their class warfare campaign has been a disaster... poisoning the minds of millions. It’s sad, but it’s who and what that party is.
 
beerftw said:
Just to comment on the thread, I doubt many even know what fascism is or where it originated from, but rather use it as a catch all for anything they disagree with, fascism and hitler seem to be the lazy insult hurled in debate, with most hurling it not even having a clue at what they are hurling.
Click to expand...

Fascism is authoritarian ultra nationalism, with it's focus being on putting down the opposition and control of the economy. It uses populism to come to power and unify, and then obfuscate it's totalitarian agenda.

Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete. And believe in having the society controlled by one party. To be better prepared for war and economic troubles. They believe in a strong leader with complete control to forge national unity and maintain a stable society.

They favor a mixed economy, that focus on protectionist and interventionist policies.

I know what fascism is, and I am right now not only describing fascism, but Trump's political platform.

Maybe, if everyone is calling something fascist, it's not because they don't know what it means, maybe it's because it's actually ****ing fascist. Ever stop to consider that one?
 
Maccabee said:
You kinda make my point. With Fascism today, The vast majority will run the other direction at the first hint of it being implemented. To the point of making false alarms. With socialism/communism, You will find large groups of people and entire countries praising the "benefits" of sharing everything. Which is probably why communism/socialism is still kicking.
Click to expand...

I get the feeling that has a lot to do with the fact it was Communism that lead the other side of the Cold War, rather than Fascism.

This isn't a defense of either, rather an observation. Had Hitler won WW2, I could easily see communism becoming a mostly dead ideology, with Fascists and Fundamentalists and Nationalists being the "big threat" instead. People talk about Marx'es ideas even today because his ideology was the one that actually managed to survive that long, leaving Fascists mostly a dead ideology among small fringe groups.

Of course, I think the nature of the soviets and the nazis weren't all that much different in the end. Both genocided millions of their own, both wanted to dominated the world, either directly or by geopolitical influence, both Hitler and Stalin wanted to make "Big Brother" a reality, spread fearmongering propaganda against the enemy, etc. In the end, the biggest difference is who they blamed for their problems.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
Fascism is authoritarian ultra nationalism, with it's focus being on putting down the opposition and control of the economy. It uses populism to come to power and unify, and then obfuscate it's totalitarian agenda.

Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete. And believe in having the society controlled by one party. To be better prepared for war and economic troubles. They believe in a strong leader with complete control to forge national unity and maintain a stable society.

They favor a mixed economy, that focus on protectionist and interventionist policies.

I know what fascism is, and I am right now not only describing fascism, but Trump's political platform.

Maybe, if everyone is calling something fascist, it's not because they don't know what it means, maybe it's because it's actually ****ing fascist. Ever stop to consider that one?
Click to expand...

I think Trump is more akin to nationalism, rather than fascism. Fascism feels to extreme to describe his less desirable qualities. I doubt the guy is really sitting here and thinking "man, a dictatorship would be cool".
 
Tres1B said:
I think Trump is more akin to nationalism, rather than fascism. Fascism feels to extreme to describe his less desirable qualities. I doubt the guy is really sitting here and thinking "man, a dictatorship would be cool".
Click to expand...

Considering that one options floated that he gets all kinds of **** for opposing is open boarders with no ice...... the claims of him leading a nationalistic movement must be taken with at least one grain of salt.
 
Tres1B said:
I think Trump is more akin to nationalism, rather than fascism. Fascism feels to extreme to describe his less desirable qualities. I doubt the guy is really sitting here and thinking "man, a dictatorship would be cool".
Click to expand...



Trump saying maybe we should give President for life a try.

And, did you read what I posted. I defined fascism, it's ultra nationalism. Not normal nationalism like, I love the flag, I love the troops, I love freedom. But, white nationalism. The kind of nationalism that makes you want to separate Asylum seekers from their children as a deterrent. The kind that says, well they might have committed a misdemeanor so it's ok to hold them for months without trial, it's their own fault they lost their kids. And if you want to be kind to immigrants that are different from ordinary Americans, then you want open borders and anarchy. And hate America. Ultra Nationalism.

Ultra Nationalism also calls for becoming self sufficient, and cutting dependence on imports. Relying on oneself. By say, pissing off all our allies and trade partners, starting a couple trade wars. Until all we have left is ourselves. Who does that sound like to you?

Funny, how he can't get along with any other democratic nation in the world, but if it's a dictator with a history of human rights violations, then they are good people. They love their country.

Naw, he's not a dictator wannabe at all. Not at all.

No, he fits the bill. Trying to normalize his bull**** and play the peacemaker only helps him get away with more bull****. Hard pass on that one.
 
Last edited:
Hawkeye10 said:
Considering that one options floated that he gets all kinds of **** for opposing is open boarders with no ice...... the claims of him leading a nationalistic movement must be taken with at least one grain of salt.
Click to expand...

Misdirection, one of the options floated is open borders and no ice, is a gross mischaracterization of the dialogue happening today.

People have proposed ICE be abolished. Because it's grossly mishandling it's power. And is being used as a type of secret police rounding up the this brand of fascism scape goat. Used to be Jews, now its Immigrants from south of the border.

Saying a wall is stupid, is not an argument for open borders. It's just common sense, resources could be better put to use on more effective options. Which have been floated and shot down Trumptards because it's not a wall.

Why hide it? Just embrace what you are, own it. Like Steve Bannon tells you to.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
Misdirection, one of the options floated is open borders and no ice, is a gross mischaracterization of the dialogue happening today.

People have proposed ICE be abolished. Because it's grossly mishandling it's power. And is being used as a type of secret police rounding up the this brand of fascism scape goat. Used to be Jews, now its Immigrants from south of the border.

Saying a wall is stupid, is not an argument for open borders. It's just common sense, resources could be better put to use on more effective options. Which have been floated and shot down Trumptards because it's not a wall.

Why hide it? Just embrace what you are, own it. Like Steve Bannon tells you to.
Click to expand...

That's funny, the same people saying that we have to let in who ever wants to come saying that ICE abuses its power.

They dont want ICE to have any power.

Paying attention is always a plus.

Can you manage?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom