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Our Protections are Starting to Weaken

veritas1 said:
Stop him from doing what? Trying to carry out the programs the voters elected him to do?
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They elected him to separate kids from their mothers?
They elected him to turn on his own (Cohen and Sanford)?
They elected him to spend more time at Mar-a-Lago playing golf than being in Washington doing the work of being President (something he said he would do)?
They elected him to not read the daily briefing or depend on others for information with which to make decisions that he should be making himself?
They elected him to praise Dictators and ruin friendships?
They elected him to ruin the reputation of the U.S. being the pillar of democracy?

Is that what they elected him to do?
 
veritas1 said:
Yea, the reason that "law making" as it were, often devolves upon the president and the courts, is that Congress fails to do its job. Congress has pretty much surrendered its third of the co-equal powers and so has unbalanced the system. Congress should just do its job. Write legislation, rationally debate legislation and pass legislation. Instead, we get infighting, political polarization and gridlock.
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We get what congress critters define as successful - the current antics of congress critters yields them a collective re-election of over 90%. So long as that remains the case then it is foolish to expect any change in 'the system'. What we mostly get from congress is a constant increase in federal government power and expense - neither the party for a bigger federal government nor the party for a huge federal government (who alternate as majorities in congress) intends to change that.
 
Luckyone said:
Yes, but so far they have done nothing to stop him
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??? Stop him from what?

It's not the job of the Legislative Branch to "stop" the President. Their job is to write laws and convince the President to pass them.

other than a few Republicans that are not up for re-election saying negative things.
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Oh...I get it. You want Republican Congressmen to go to the media...join their talking potato heads...and bad-mouth the President. If they don't do that, that means they are "blindly" following Trump.

I don't follow your logic.

Just consider the fact that the most recent Immigration bill up for voting includes $25 billion for the wall. This is something that most (if not all) Republicans are against due to the fact that spending that money is not intelligent or needed, and yet they put it on the bill for immigration to do what Trump wants.
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This is called political posturing. The House Republicans knew that nothing would get passed, even if one of those two bills got past the House. On the Senate side, Schumer said he wouldn't support any bill and McConnell said he wouldn't schedule any immigration bill. That means the House can act like they really want to do something...without worrying that something would actually get done. This happens all the time. It happened in the Obama Congress, the Bush Congress...in every Congress.

You need to place these things in a reality-based perspective before you start drawing conclusions, such as the Legislative Branch blindly following Trump.
 
Fishking said:
This entire post is horribly ignorant of current and historical reality. First, there is plenty of opposition to Trump. I'm not sure where you are hiding but opposition is currently stronger now than ever, even for things that existed during Obama's terms.

Secondly, it's not even close to being the greatest threat our government has ever faced. Perhaps the biggest threat came with the progressive hero, FDR, who tried to completely undermine the Supreme Court by packing it full of "yes men" in his court packing scheme. He also served 4 terms until he died, making him very similar to a dictator.
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Opposition to Trump being what? Democrats? What other opposition are you talking about that could make a difference?
 
Luckyone said:
Our forefathers put together a system that was supposed to protect our democracy with the 3 branches of Government (Executive, Judicial, and Legislative) being there to stop any one branch or person from trying to take over and causing a dictatorship to happen. For 240 years that system has worked well.

With the advent of Trump and the Republicans now in power of 2 of the 3 branches and chipping away at the Judicial branch with Sessions being the head of it, our system is now at risk of failing for the first time in our history.

The Legislative branch (Congress) is now "blindly" following Trump without questioning anything. The Legislative branch has lost its power because there aren't enough Republicans that are willing to stand up for their principles and ideals that they have in the past stated they stood for. The Executive branch is run by a person that wants to be a dictator and the Judicial branch is now being run by someone that is pro-Trump and that is defending our Constitution by a thin thread. If he caves in or is replaced by someone else that is more Trumpian and less of a believer in the rule of law, we will be in a situation where all branches of Government will do what Trump wants.

I don't know about you, but I do not want that to happen because if it does there is no telling how many injustices will occur that will forever change what we have been for 240 years and what we have represented to the entire world, which is democracy and freedom.

I believe we all in the U.S. have a negative vision of dictators, meaning that just mentioning the word brings a negative response but perhaps we need to list exactly what a dictatorship brings to those living in one, especially considering that we may be on the verge of being in one. Didn't Trump recently say when Xi-Ping was elected President for Life that he would like to do the same?

Here is a list of the pros and cons of what a dictatorship brings to the table: Pay particular attention to #6 and #9 in the cons category

https://vittana.org/16-pros-and-cons-of-dictatorship

The last paragraph in this article says: For a society to see the benefits that a dictatorship can bring, the ruler or ruling party must be benevolent, have expertise, be intelligent, and also be selfless. Without these qualities, oppression is the usual result. Do you see Trump having any of these qualities?
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Weird...the federal judiciary is full of socialist/progressive ideologues placed there by barry. Didn't hear any complaints.
 
I wish that EVERY single federal court was filled by constitutional originalists. The constitution trumps emotion and ideology. By the time it's all said and done, the courts will have been filled with my kind of judges, which makes me happy. America was saved for another 50 years on November 8th, 2016!
 
Mycroft said:
??? Stop him from what?

It's not the job of the Legislative Branch to "stop" the President. Their job is to write laws and convince the President to pass them.



Oh...I get it. You want Republican Congressmen to go to the media...join their talking potato heads...and bad-mouth the President. If they don't do that, that means they are "blindly" following Trump.

I don't follow your logic.



This is called political posturing. The House Republicans knew that nothing would get passed, even if one of those two bills got past the House. On the Senate side, Schumer said he wouldn't support any bill and McConnell said he wouldn't schedule any immigration bill. That means the House can act like they really want to do something...without worrying that something would actually get done. This happens all the time. It happened in the Obama Congress, the Bush Congress...in every Congress.

You need to place these things in a reality-based perspective before you start drawing conclusions, such as the Legislative Branch blindly following Trump.
Click to expand...

Let me say that the title of my post is "our protections are starting to weaken". At no point in that original post did I state that things have already changed for the worse. I dare anyone to tell me or show me that our democracy is any stronger than it has been for the past 50 years. It is "starting" to weaken!! and I stand by that comment.
 
Luckyone said:
Our forefathers put together a system that was supposed to protect our democracy with the 3 branches of Government (Executive, Judicial, and Legislative) being there to stop any one branch or person from trying to take over and causing a dictatorship to happen. For 240 years that system has worked well.

With the advent of Trump and the Republicans now in power of 2 of the 3 branches and chipping away at the Judicial branch with Sessions being the head of it, our system is now at risk of failing for the first time in our history.

The Legislative branch (Congress) is now "blindly" following Trump without questioning anything. The Legislative branch has lost its power because there aren't enough Republicans that are willing to stand up for their principles and ideals that they have in the past stated they stood for. The Executive branch is run by a person that wants to be a dictator and the Judicial branch is now being run by someone that is pro-Trump and that is defending our Constitution by a thin thread. If he caves in or is replaced by someone else that is more Trumpian and less of a believer in the rule of law, we will be in a situation where all branches of Government will do what Trump wants.

I don't know about you, but I do not want that to happen because if it does there is no telling how many injustices will occur that will forever change what we have been for 240 years and what we have represented to the entire world, which is democracy and freedom.

I believe we all in the U.S. have a negative vision of dictators, meaning that just mentioning the word brings a negative response but perhaps we need to list exactly what a dictatorship brings to those living in one, especially considering that we may be on the verge of being in one. Didn't Trump recently say when Xi-Ping was elected President for Life that he would like to do the same?

Here is a list of the pros and cons of what a dictatorship brings to the table: Pay particular attention to #6 and #9 in the cons category

https://vittana.org/16-pros-and-cons-of-dictatorship

The last paragraph in this article says: For a society to see the benefits that a dictatorship can bring, the ruler or ruling party must be benevolent, have expertise, be intelligent, and also be selfless. Without these qualities, oppression is the usual result. Do you see Trump having any of these qualities?
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But Trump is not anything close to a dictator. Sure, he may be a narcissistic imbecile, but it's not like he has an iron grip over every branch of government. If he did, he would've gotten everything he's asked for to get pushed through. But he hasn't.
 
Luckyone said:
You are actually making my point. The disarray that is being seen is not conducive to the 3 branches of government doing what they are supposed to do. That opens the door for Trump, the person that clearly has said often "only I can fix the problems" and slowly but surely the larger portions of the Republican base believe that. If that filters through to the other branches, what do you think will happen? Trump will become "our" dictator and dictate what is to happen.
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As long as we have the Constitution, we will not have a dictator. You see the Congress as a problem because it doesn't block Trump. I see it as a problem because it isn't behind the things that Trump was elected to do. The establishment, and that includes many GOPers in Congress, is opposed to Trump.
 
Luckyone said:
Only a blind person cannot see what is happening.

Let me quote you something that Trump himself has said many times: "I am your voice, said Trump. I alone can fix it. I will restore law and order". He did not appeal to prayer, or to God. He did not ask Americans to measure him against their values, or to hold him responsible for living up to them. He did not ask for their help. He asked them to place their faith in him". This is exactly what a Dictator says. I am the one that will decide what needs to be done and do it.
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Actions matter, not words and Trump has done nothing to warrant calling him a dictator. That is just hyperbole.
 
Luckyone said:
Our forefathers put together a system that was supposed to protect our democracy with the 3 branches of Government (Executive, Judicial, and Legislative) being there to stop any one branch or person from trying to take over and causing a dictatorship to happen. For 240 years that system has worked well.

With the advent of Trump and the Republicans now in power of 2 of the 3 branches and chipping away at the Judicial branch with Sessions being the head of it, our system is now at risk of failing for the first time in our history.

The Legislative branch (Congress) is now "blindly" following Trump without questioning anything. The Legislative branch has lost its power because there aren't enough Republicans that are willing to stand up for their principles and ideals that they have in the past stated they stood for. The Executive branch is run by a person that wants to be a dictator and the Judicial branch is now being run by someone that is pro-Trump and that is defending our Constitution by a thin thread. If he caves in or is replaced by someone else that is more Trumpian and less of a believer in the rule of law, we will be in a situation where all branches of Government will do what Trump wants.

I don't know about you, but I do not want that to happen because if it does there is no telling how many injustices will occur that will forever change what we have been for 240 years and what we have represented to the entire world, which is democracy and freedom.

I believe we all in the U.S. have a negative vision of dictators, meaning that just mentioning the word brings a negative response but perhaps we need to list exactly what a dictatorship brings to those living in one, especially considering that we may be on the verge of being in one. Didn't Trump recently say when Xi-Ping was elected President for Life that he would like to do the same?

Here is a list of the pros and cons of what a dictatorship brings to the table: Pay particular attention to #6 and #9 in the cons category

https://vittana.org/16-pros-and-cons-of-dictatorship

The last paragraph in this article says: For a society to see the benefits that a dictatorship can bring, the ruler or ruling party must be benevolent, have expertise, be intelligent, and also be selfless. Without these qualities, oppression is the usual result. Do you see Trump having any of these qualities?
Click to expand...

This is kind of a mess. Sessions is not head of the judicial branch of government. He is head of the Department of Justice, which is part of the executive branch. You completely ignore that most of the legislation that Trump wanted was not passed by Congress. I get that some are desperate to paint Trump as a dictator, but it just isn't the case. Even if he has that desire, our government still has checks and balances intact.
 
veritas1 said:
Actions matter, not words and Trump has done nothing to warrant calling him a dictator. That is just hyperbole.
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You have got to be kidding me!

He loves Dictators (Putin, Kim -Yung-un, Erdegan), he said he would like to be President for life like XI, he says that "he alone can fix it", he makes decisions against what members of his own cabinet say is wrong and you say he has done NOTHING to warrant him being called a dictator. You are blind!
 
Luckyone said:
They elected him to separate kids from their mothers?
They elected him to turn on his own (Cohen and Sanford)?
They elected him to spend more time at Mar-a-Lago playing golf than being in Washington doing the work of being President (something he said he would do)?
They elected him to not read the daily briefing or depend on others for information with which to make decisions that he should be making himself?
They elected him to praise Dictators and ruin friendships?
They elected him to ruin the reputation of the U.S. being the pillar of democracy?

Is that what they elected him to do?
Click to expand...

Other than the first item, that is all subjective opinion. Trump is there to do what he can for the US, not other countries. I don't really care what weaklings in the EU think. What Trump was elected to do was fix immigration, something that Democrats and spineless Republicans are obstructing. They elected him to spur growth and job creation and bring back US businesses. That is happening. They elected him to stop the US from being a patsy and a doormat abroad. He is doing that.

I understand the left has an irrational hatred of Trump which drives all its thoughts and actions whether they reflect reality or not.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
We get what congress critters define as successful - the current antics of congress critters yields them a collective re-election of over 90%. So long as that remains the case then it is foolish to expect any change in 'the system'. What we mostly get from congress is a constant increase in federal government power and expense - neither the party for a bigger federal government nor the party for a huge federal government (who alternate as majorities in congress) intends to change that.
Click to expand...

I agree, which is why Trump has an uphill battle. The establishment figures if it hamstrings Trump for awhile, that's all it needs. He'll be gone in a few years and things can get back to the normal glad handing, palm greasing, paper shuffling and inertia. Keeping their positions and prerogatives are all that matters, not accomplishing anything worthwhile.
 
Luckyone said:
You have got to be kidding me!

He loves Dictators (Putin, Kim -Yung-un, Erdegan), he said he would like to be President for life like XI, he says that "he alone can fix it", he makes decisions against what members of his own cabinet say is wrong and you say he has done NOTHING to warrant him being called a dictator. You are blind!
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He hasn't, though. Just because he does and says stuff you disagree with (keep in mind that I despise Trump probably just as much as you do), doesn't make him a dictator.
 
Luckyone said:
You have got to be kidding me!

He loves Dictators (Putin, Kim -Yung-un, Erdegan), he said he would like to be President for life like XI, he says that "he alone can fix it", he makes decisions against what members of his own cabinet say is wrong and you say he has done NOTHING to warrant him being called a dictator. You are blind!
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None of that stuff makes him a dictator. The final decision on policy is the President's. He can accept or reject the advice of his advisers. He decides whether to sign legislation from Congress, who can override him if they have the votes. That is how the system works. I'm not blind at all. I'm simply not emotionally wrought like liberals.
 
Luckyone said:
Only a blind person cannot see what is happening.

Let me quote you something that Trump himself has said many times: "I am your voice, said Trump. I alone can fix it. I will restore law and order". He did not appeal to prayer, or to God. He did not ask Americans to measure him against their values, or to hold him responsible for living up to them. He did not ask for their help. He asked them to place their faith in him". This is exactly what a Dictator says. I am the one that will decide what needs to be done and do it.
Click to expand...

Only a blind person who is so obsessed with being anti-Trump sees things which aren't there, just because they can't stand that the other side won the election. In fact, voters have chosen a Republican president, US Senate, US house, and 2/3's of state governors and legislatures. It's really churning in your stomach and you are obsessed with hate.
 
Moon said:
This is kind of a mess. Sessions is not head of the judicial branch of government. He is head of the Department of Justice, which is part of the executive branch. You completely ignore that most of the legislation that Trump wanted was not passed by Congress. I get that some are desperate to paint Trump as a dictator, but it just isn't the case. Even if he has that desire, our government still has checks and balances intact.
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I truly hope that our checks and balances are in place. I truly do. Nonetheless, our democracy is not heading higher but lower as there has not been a President before that has worked so hard at tearing down those checks and balances as Trump has done. Most troublesome is the fanatical support for a President that has shown such an utter lack of respect for others and a total lack of moral standards just because the economy is presently moving forward. The support for money and not principles is worrisome.
 
Moon said:
This is kind of a mess. Sessions is not head of the judicial branch of government. He is head of the Department of Justice, which is part of the executive branch. You completely ignore that most of the legislation that Trump wanted was not passed by Congress. I get that some are desperate to paint Trump as a dictator, but it just isn't the case. Even if he has that desire, our government still has checks and balances intact.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I really dislike Trump, but he's not a dictator.
 
Luckyone said:
They elected him to separate kids from their mothers?
They elected him to turn on his own (Cohen and Sanford)?
They elected him to spend more time at Mar-a-Lago playing golf than being in Washington doing the work of being President (something he said he would do)?
They elected him to not read the daily briefing or depend on others for information with which to make decisions that he should be making himself?
They elected him to praise Dictators and ruin friendships?
They elected him to ruin the reputation of the U.S. being the pillar of democracy?

Is that what they elected him to do?
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Now I know you are drinking from the liberal kool aid jug. You make a post claiming Trump is headed to be dictator and yet these gripes you just posted have nothing to do with the US falling into a dictatorship.
 
late said:
If he had been like a dictator, he would have packed the court. Didn't happen.

Historian rate FDR as one of the best, and for damn good reason.
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Yea, like throwing all those Japanese American citizens into internment camps. Is that the part that made him one of the best? You guys whine about Trump and call him a Nazi and talk about concentration camps when the only person in US history to throw people into REAL concentration camps was a liberal Democrat and they were US CITIZENS. That was a total violation of their Constitutional rights. So, maybe you guys should shut up about Trump.
 
Luckyone said:
You have got to be kidding me!

He loves Dictators (Putin, Kim -Yung-un, Erdegan), he said he would like to be President for life like XI, he says that "he alone can fix it", he makes decisions against what members of his own cabinet say is wrong and you say he has done NOTHING to warrant him being called a dictator. You are blind!
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So? Since when does a president's words make him a dictator and erode the branches of government?
 
Moderate Right said:
Only a blind person who is so obsessed with being anti-Trump sees things which aren't there, just because they can't stand that the other side won the election. In fact, voters have chosen a Republican president, US Senate, US house, and 2/3's of state governors and legislatures. It's really churning in your stomach and you are obsessed with hate.
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Coming from a person that supports a President that encourages and dishes out hate every day, is certainly ironic.

How can you criticize hate if that is what Trump encourages. It can be said that in that respect he has been very successful. I am just one of his success stories.

Do I have to list everything person that Trump has clearly stated he hates?

Yes, I do hate everything that Trump stands for but that is because I grew up loving principles, morals, respect, love for one another, and general caring for what is good. None of which Trump represents. As such, I can certainly say that I hate Trump.
 
Luckyone said:
Let me say that the title of my post is "our protections are starting to weaken". At no point in that original post did I state that things have already changed for the worse. I dare anyone to tell me or show me that our democracy is any stronger than it has been for the past 50 years. It is "starting" to weaken!! and I stand by that comment.
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Oh, I haven't even started in on the topic of your thread. Up till now, all I've done is shoot holes in the contentions you've made in your OP.

So...does this mean you are walking back your contentions about the Legislative Branch blindly following Trump?
 
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