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The Worst of the Worst

Polar Bum said:
Well then, this isn't about you engaging in debate then, is it? Then why did you post in a debate forum?

Its simply you wanting a platform to air your anger/hatred at the current administration.....you should simply write an op/ed for a local paper and skip the debate forums.
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I don't understand your post. Debates are when two people get together to offer their individual opinions on a subject but it starts with each person stating what opinion they already have and the other side trying to tear it down. I offered my opinion on Trump and I am looking for people to debate the issue with me and try to change my mind with facts.

Am I wrong in this?
 
rocket88 said:
Bush was....well lets just say he was an adult. He made some bad decisions, but he had more respect for his office and the Constitution.
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Yep. Bush was flawed but he wasn't Putin's bitch like Trump
 
ttwtt78640 said:
It is also worth considering how Hillary (with her alleged vast political experience, talent, charm and big money backing) managed to lose an election to a creature like that.
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A friend tells me that that 90% of the American people...are morons.
 
rocket88 said:
And that's where the problem comes in. Decorum and presenting a positive public face of the US is part of the job of President. He fails badly at that part.
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He's proven to the world that the ugly American exists and there are enough of them to put the ugliest one in charge.
 
Luckyone said:
I don't understand your post. Debates are when two people get together to offer their individual opinions on a subject but it starts with each person stating what opinion they already have and the other side trying to tear it down. I offered my opinion on Trump and I am looking for people to debate the issue with me and try to change my mind with facts.

Am I wrong in this?
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You are when you end a statement with "you cannot convince me that Trump himself has done anything of value."

Now, in all fairness, I am not a trump supporter....My vote went elsewhere; but, at the same time, I will not shut out any possibility of learning anything or being offered a convincing logical argument to the contrary simply because of my personal feelings.

You have already eliminated the possibility of debate with the statement you offered.
 
Polar Bum said:
You are when you end a statement with "you cannot convince me that Trump himself has done anything of value."

Now, in all fairness, I am not a trump supporter....My vote went elsewhere; but, at the same time, I will not shut out any possibility of learning anything or being offered a convincing logical argument to the contrary simply because of my personal feelings.

You have already eliminated the possibility of debate with the statement you offered.
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I think you are splitting hairs because even in a "debate", both sides are generally convinced that they are 100% right in their views.

Generally, I am an open minded person that is open for facts that will make what I think wrong. I don't believe I am wrong with Trump but will debate the issue with anyone. By the same token, Trump is not only an issue but a factor that will change all of our lives and as such, writing a comment or a book without discussing and debating it with those that are on the opposite side is a waste of time. In my opinion, Trump must be stopped and the people that are more likely to be successful at stopping him are his own supporters. As such, debating the issue with them is the most intelligent course of action.
 
X Factor said:
It’s gotta be tough to have to position yourself against a good economy.
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What typical, conservative, magical thinking. A borrowed prosperity is really a huge weight hanging over our heads. Even though every republican over the last several decades has employed the borrow and steal strategy that has thrust us into recession, the mouthpieces of the moron party are still flspping their incompetent lips about how great the economy is.

You guys build your wealth upon a foundation of war and shameless theft and still have the balls to speak up, as if you've done domething noble.

You, sir, are like a bad comic that, despite the sighs from the audience, insists they're killing it. What you guys are killing is America.
 
Luckyone said:
I think you are splitting hairs because even in a "debate", both sides are generally convinced that they are 100% right in their views.

Generally, I am an open minded person that is open for facts that will make what I think wrong. I don't believe I am wrong with Trump but will debate the issue with anyone. By the same token, Trump is not only an issue but a factor that will change all of our lives and as such, writing a comment or a book without discussing and debating it with those that are on the opposite side is a waste of time. In my opinion, Trump must be stopped and the people that are more likely to be successful at stopping him are his own supporters. As such, debating the issue with them is the most intelligent course of action.
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Splitting hairs is a tool of debate......making statements with absolutes will often come back to haunt you at a later date.
 
Pedestrian said:
A friend tells me that that 90% of the American people...are morons.
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I would assume that your friend's comment was intended to place themselves firmly into the top 10% intellectually as well as to cast serious aspersions on the 90% not in their elite subset of the US population.

That is similar to saying that common sense is no longer so common. The difference, of course, is that the latter only tends to elevate the speaker into the upper half of those with a superior level of common sense and does not imply that a deficit of common sense renders (most) others to be morons.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
The only logic that you verify with your post after post is your true animus to any and all with the R. We hear it from you, you hear it from us, the political see-saw goes up and down...and your bottom line underlying truth is...well here, I ll let you tell us:

"He seems to be doing a fairly good job, but damn it would be nice to have an adult as President."

Thats just flat bonkersism, man.
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Yeah, it would be nice if I could expect the President to act like an adult and not throw candy at world leaders or go on weekly Twitter tantrums because he doesn't get his way.
 
rocket88 said:
Yeah, it would be nice if I could expect the President to act like an adult and not throw candy at world leaders or go on weekly Twitter tantrums because he doesn't get his way.
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Pretty shallow reasoning.

What he does works, you admit it ... and those of us watching closely and that are not just reflexively conditioned to detest his every breath can see his method, can see how he acts while others are still only contemplating then having to shift to a whole new contemplation while he is acting again.

They never catch up.

By my media upbringing I hated the guy from get go until right before his nomination...started asking myself what are all these people in the stadiums he was filling seeing that I am not. Quit listening to media then I started watching the actual interplay he had with the crowds, telling us things we yearned to hear but that our regular hum drum pols skirted, they being coached to couch their rhetoric so as to go both ways, said agile pivoting baded on the corrent winds shifting rvery day...little to nothing definitive...

Just more blather from the blathering class.

Turns out he is far smarter than portrayed, has a natural craftiness along with decades of various and pertinent hands-on high level experiences...an eye for knowing what is necessary and when. Exploding the norm and going thru the chaos with minimalist moves. Best of all he knows how to piss off his detractors keeping them distracted while accomplishing what he wants.

You can disagree, but its sour grapes...and with your vineyard cooperative, why not make whine, eh? Just do us a favor and bottle then cork it. Never know, might improve with age.

Doubt it, but its your best shot.
 
X Factor said:
It’s gotta be tough to have to position yourself against a good economy.
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Hate to tell ya, but the economy is tanking.

Tariffs tend to do that. Material prices are up as much as 40% thanks to dufus McGrudus's policies. How long do you think that will take to sink the US economy?

First place to feel it will be Housing starts
Permits to build single-family homes fell 2.2 percent in May to a pace of 844,000 units, an eight-month low. With permits lagging starts, single-family homebuilding could slow in the months ahead.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ace-to-near-11-year-high-in-may-idUSKBN1JF1N9
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After that, Automotive mfg.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ost-carmakers-at-least-1-million-annual-sales
 
rocket88 said:
And that's where the problem comes in. Decorum and presenting a positive public face of the US is part of the job of President. He fails badly at that part.
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I find that aspect of him a national embarrassment, and the reason I couldn't support him for president. I believed that aspect of him would manifest into a lack of diplomacy, resulting in total foreign policy failure with both our allies and our enemies. When it comes to dealing with America's enemies, a president must engage them and engage them correctly. I didn't believe Trump would be able to engage with them period. In other words, all I imagined he would do as president is piss off our friends and motivate our enemies to strike. That was enough for me to oppose his bid for the presidency.

The problem I'm having now is, his actions thus far have been pretty much in line with what I suspected from him, but the results haven't been. For the first time, I'm starting to think that his "in your face" diplomacy might yield some unexpected benefits. Don't get me wrong, I still think he acts like a buffoon and can't bring myself to endorse his conduct as president, but based on the strong economy and the fact he brought N.Korea to the table, I've adopted more of a "let's see" approach.

BTW, I must admit that I underestimated you and for that I apologize. I know you lean to the left when it comes to politics, and frankly never expected you express anything but negativity and/or vitriol when it came to the state of things under a republican politician, especially the one who currently occupies the White House. For that I commend you.

.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Pretty shallow reasoning.

What he does works, you admit it ... and those of us watching closely and that are not just reflexively conditioned to detest his every breath can see his method, can see how he acts while others are still only contemplating then having to shift to a whole new contemplation while he is acting again.

They never catch up.

By my media upbringing I hated the guy from get go until right before his nomination...started asking myself what are all these people in the stadiums he was filling seeing that I am not. Quit listening to media then I started watching the actual interplay he had with the crowds, telling us things we yearned to hear but that our regular hum drum pols skirted, they being coached to couch their rhetoric so as to go both ways, said agile pivoting baded on the corrent winds shifting rvery day...little to nothing definitive...

Just more blather from the blathering class.

Turns out he is far smarter than portrayed, has a natural craftiness along with decades of various and pertinent hands-on high level experiences...an eye for knowing what is necessary and when. Exploding the norm and going thru the chaos with minimalist moves. Best of all he knows how to piss off his detractors keeping them distracted while accomplishing what he wants.

You can disagree, but its sour grapes...and with your vineyard cooperative, why not make whine, eh? Just do us a favor and bottle then cork it. Never know, might improve with age.

Doubt it, but its your best shot.
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So in other words when it became clear he was the nominee, you swallowed your ideals and got in line, and everybody else needs to do the same and are not allowed to disagree.

I'm sure you did the same for Obama and will do the same when the next Democrat takes office?
 
rocket88 said:
So in other words when it became clear he was the nominee, you swallowed your ideals and got in line, and everybody else needs to do the same and are not allowed to disagree.

I'm sure you did the same for Obama and will do the same when the next Democrat takes office?
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So...

Thats your "honest" summary of what I wrote? Head scratcher there, bro. I did, against my better instincts I initially gave slenderman a shot. Proved to us real fast he was not a patriot, not even close...instead was only surface smart and a true subversive. Obamadontcare shoved down our throats was bad enough, but with Benghazi came the true value assessment of not worthy of one more minute, not a nano second of further respect...

Ever again.
 
Luckyone said:
In my personal opinion, Trump is and will always be the worst of the worst President we have ever had and will ever have. My opinion is not colored by allegiance to any party but strictly to the person Trump is.

To begin with, he is a narcissist that only thinks of himself and what he personally wants to achieve. His minions (Trump supporters) are only important to him as a way of achieving his goals which are egoistical and personal for himself and "perhaps" his family. He truly does not care about "the people of the United States", other than as expectators that cheer him and make him feel important.

In his campaign he stated that only he and he alone can solve the problems but he has proven in the past that everything he does is "hit or miss" (bankrupted 4 companies) and that is no way to run a country because just 1 bankruptcy for the U.S. would be too much. In the past he has had others "bail him out", such as the Russians on this last occasion because he could not get anyone else to loan him money, but there will be no one to bail out the U.S. if we go bankrupt. This is why Russia is so interested in him as he is the way for them to take us over and become the biggest World Power ever, something that Putin wants to achieve. Can you see us under Putin rule?

In addition and by his own words, he does not read or study anything and does not believe in history repeating itself and therefore he is set for making the same mistakes that others in the past have done.

Trump also has NO moral standards, principles, empathy, general caring, or heart, meaning that hurting people even without any reason to do so is not of importance to him. Causing damage to what our forefathers built over a period of almost 400 years is of no importance to him, meaning that what others have sacrificed (given their lives) to achieve for our country means absolutely nothing to him. Its as if we are newborn children and he is our father teaching all of us what to be and not paying attention to what we have been or who we already are.

Last but NOT least is that he does not believe in Democracy. His heroes are all dictators or autocrats. For close to 400 years we have been the pillar of Democracy in the world and now we are heading to being an autocratic country where freedom is tied to being rich and becoming part of an oligarchy, and even being rich and "mostly" agreeing with Trump does not assure you of staying alive.

All of this in exchange for what? A few extra dollars in our pocket over the short term? A booming economy that helps mostly the rich get richer but causes everyone else to suffer? A rise in wages but even a higher rise in costs of living? A short term economic gain but a longer term loss of safety, especially considering the loss of the environment that we all live in?

If this is worth it to you, then you are no longer have the right to be called an American. You are now a Trumpian and not worth of my respect, the respect of your neighbors, the respect of people that have earned respect in the past by their actions, or the respect of those that have died for you to live.

Trump "may" (but probably not in the long run) be successful with the economy but in putting a few extra dollars in your pocket he will be destroying everything else that makes you a person of value (principles, humanity, general caring, heart and soul). These are things you cannot get from others and certainly not from Trump. These are things you have to "earn" in life. You want to give those away so that Trump can claim that he made you a better person economically? and then what will you do if he Bankrupts the U.S. as he has done with many of his companies. What will you have then? Nothing, absolutely nothing.

Think about it. It is worth considering.
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This post starts out with the implicit claim that the author can read Trump's mind. I'm pretty sure he can't. The rest of the post continues along a similar line. So, pretty worthless.

Yes, I'm pretty much only concerned with results, which have been very good so far. If Trump thinks he's the only one who could solve the problems he identified he might be right.
 
LowDown said:
This post starts out with the implicit claim that the author can read Trump's mind. I'm pretty sure he can't. The rest of the post continues along a similar line. So, pretty worthless.

Yes, I'm pretty much only concerned with results, which have been very good so far. If Trump thinks he's the only one who could solve the problems he identified he might be right.
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First of all, let me address the results part:

Results are because the Republicans control Congress, they are not because of Trump himself. The party platform from the very beginning was lower takes and deregulate and he climbed aboard because it was what the Republicans (and many Americans) wanted and he saw it as a way to get to the top. In addition, he won because the Democrats offered in Hillary a very bad choice as well. Adding to that, he is a businessman and lower taxes and deregulation help him personally, so it was a good partnership. The only thing he accomplished personally was generating additional hate against Hillary and therefore he was elected where other Republicans might not have been. That is the one thing I do give him personally credit for, he got himself elected. Like I said before, if any other Republican would have been elected, the results seen to far would be the same or likely even better. In addition, the verdict is still out on "the results", given that the Tax Cut that helped mostly the rich brought about an additional $1.5 billion in debt and that is not a consequence that will be immediately seen. The deregulation that has occurred is also something which results of that won't be known for years. It was deregulation that brought about the 2008 economic crisis. No reason for it not to happen again.

As far as reading the man's mind:

We all have experiences with certain types of personalities and if we run into those kinds of personalities often enough in our lives, we have a pretty good idea of who they are even if we personally do not know them, we still know what they are likely to do. In addition, these types of personalities have been studied by knowledgeable people for many ages and therefore it is known how they will act. Trump is a classic Narcissist and if you look at the insert I have given, you tell me if he doesn't fit most (if not all) of the definitions of a Narcissist.

And by the way, let me also state that my own principles do not allow me to support what Trump does no matter what economic benefits he brings. I will not support people that have no morals, no general caring, no desire to learn, no respect for others in general and that "prey" on people less fortunate. Traits that Trump has repeatedly done over and over again.

Narcissist5.jpg
 
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calamity said:
He's proven to the world that the ugly American exists and there are enough of them to put the ugliest one in charge.
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Luckyone said:
...Trump must be stopped and the people that are more likely to be successful at stopping him are his own supporters. As such, debating the issue with them is the most intelligent course of action.
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I agree Trump must be stopped and think your heart is in the right place, but you're missing the mark. Calamity's post above sums up our plight quite well. With a comical buffoonish character making such comical and buffoonish statements, it's far too easy to see him as the root of our problem. He's not, he's just reflecting the racism, fears and anxieties that infect so many Americans, ugly Americans. And I assume everyone knows we're not talking about looks.

I would generally agree with your last sentence if we were in normal times, being led by a normal president. But given the extreme, off-the-chart positions his supporters are clamoring for, debating them isn't going to stop anything. Debating on forums like this is fun and entertaining but don't kid yourself about its effect, or lack thereof...

Grim17 said:
I find that aspect of him a national embarrassment, and the reason I couldn't support him for president...

...The problem I'm having now is, his actions thus far have been pretty much in line with what I suspected from him, but the results haven't been. For the first time, I'm starting to think that his "in your face" diplomacy might yield some unexpected benefits. Don't get me wrong, I still think he acts like a buffoon and can't bring myself to endorse his conduct as president, but based on the strong economy and the fact he brought N.Korea to the table, I've adopted more of a "let's see" approach...
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Nice to see another conservative with an open mind. People's first instincts and impressions are sometimes spot on and this comes thru in your first paragraph. But you seem to be basing your, "lets see" approach on misconceptions about the two points you brought up.

Our economy has been on an upswing for 9 years, well before Trump and NK has been begging for a meeting with an American president for decades. I along with most experts know that he won't be destroying his nukes. Beyond keeping him in power, it gives the murdering dictator the prestige on the world's stage he doesn't deserve.

Lastly, you must know how our allies and the world's democracies view Trump and his policies. Do you really believe they're all wrong?!?
 
I agree Trump must be stopped and think your heart is in the right place, but you're missing the mark. Calamity's post above sums up our plight quite well. With a comical buffoonish character making such comical and buffoonish statements, it's far too easy to see him as the root of our problem. He's not, he's just reflecting the racism, fears and anxieties that infect so many Americans, ugly Americans. And I assume everyone knows we're not talking about looks.

Trump may not be the cause of the problem but he is definitely exacerbating the problem with his personality and views.

There is no fast solution to ignorance, racism and intolerance so what needs to happen is to attempt to surpress it as much as possible and let time go by so that is ebbs by itself. Nonetheless, if you have someone at the "head of the household" and he is allowed to support and encourage it, it soon gets out of hand. What needs to be done is to stop its growth and let it fester but among the few and not the many. There is the idea, especially in a democracy, that the majority rules and that is what we need to do, assure that the majority that wants good over evil rules and that the majority is mostly based on doing the right thing and not the egoistical thing.

As far as NK, I believe that we cannot be on the same plane as dictators because if we are, the possibility of us becoming a dictatorship ourselves increases, not to mention the fact that our democratic friends will depart. Russia is friends with Syria and Assad and we are heading in the same direction if we allow NK to become our protege. If that occurs, we might as well give up on our democracy and look to protect ourselves from the KGB (or the would be counterpart of the U.S.) knocking on our doors.
 
I basically agree...
 
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