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This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

Xelor

Xelor

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On whether the separation is or isn't a Trump Admin. policy:
People who depicted separation as a feature of the law even though it's not:​
Trump:​
Kirstjen Nielsen:​
People who described it as a policy:​
Stephen Miller:​
Marc Short, White House director of legislative affairs:​
On whether the separation aspect of zero-tolerance meant to dissuade people from entering the U.S?
Administration officials who say, essentially, "yes."​
Jeff Sessions:
​

  • [*=2]Q: Are you in favor of this new move announced by the attorney general early this week that if you cross the border illegally even if you're a mother with your children [we're going] to arrest you? We're going to prosecute you, we're going to send your kids to a juvenile shelter?

    A: The name of the game to a large degree. Let me step back and tell you that the vast majority of the people that move illegally into United States are not bad people. They're not criminals. They're not MS-13....But a big name of the game is deterrence.
Administration official who said, essentially, "no."​

  • [*=2]Remarked during Senate testimony that it was offensive to say the policy aimed to deter asylum seekers/immigrants from coming to the U.S.
On whether the problem could be mitigated by having more immigration magistrates, thus shortening the "adjudication" processing period:
Yes:
​
John Cornyn:​
Rep. Poe:​
Ted Cruz:​
No:​
Trump:​
On GOP-proposed legislation to resolve the problem:
Trump:
​
White House:
​
On whether the POTUS could unilaterally abate the separations:
Kirstjen Nielsen:​

  • [*=1]"Congress alone can fix it."
Mercedes Schlapp:
​
Trump:
​
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

So, from all that we see that, along with being completely inconsistent "from soup to nuts," the President, his WH, and his top aides just flat-out lied over and over and over again. And, truly, they really didn't need to lie at all because the fact is that they didn't want to do "catch and release;" however, Flores Agreement fairly well forces that if there are kids involved.

All Trump et al had to do was get on the airwaves and explain the matter and identify what initiatives they were taking to alter the terms of the Agreement. Alternatively, Trump could have actually hired experienced people who knew from the get-go that Flores was the impediment to his policy aims and dealt with Flores before going off half-cocked arresting people and their kids.
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

Xelor said:
So, from all that we see that, along with being completely inconsistent "from soup to nuts," the President, his WH, and his top aides just flat-out lied over and over and over again. And, truly, they really didn't need to lie at all because the fact is that they didn't want to do "catch and release;" however, Flores Agreement fairly well forces that if there are kids involved.

All Trump et al had to do was get on the airwaves and explain the matter and identify what initiatives they were taking to alter the terms of the Agreement. Alternatively, Trump could have actually hired experienced people who knew from the get-go that Flores was the impediment to his policy aims and dealt with Flores before going off half-cocked arresting people and their kids.
Click to expand...

How many of those younger children up to 3 or so will have been misidentified as to who their parent/s are and will only be noted when they are reunited?
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

Xelor said:
So, from all that we see that, along with being completely inconsistent "from soup to nuts," the President, his WH, and his top aides just flat-out lied over and over and over again. And, truly, they really didn't need to lie at all because the fact is that they didn't want to do "catch and release;" however, Flores Agreement fairly well forces that if there are kids involved.

All Trump et al had to do was get on the airwaves and explain the matter and identify what initiatives they were taking to alter the terms of the Agreement. Alternatively, Trump could have actually hired experienced people who knew from the get-go that Flores was the impediment to his policy aims and dealt with Flores before going off half-cocked arresting people and their kids.
Click to expand...

Many of these "kids" are sex slaves or other abused children. Is it a good idea to keep these kids with these adults, or should we figure things out before we allow family reunification?
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

Xelor said:
So, from all that we see that, along with being completely inconsistent "from soup to nuts," the President, his WH, and his top aides just flat-out lied over and over and over again. And, truly, they really didn't need to lie at all because the fact is that they didn't want to do "catch and release;" however, Flores Agreement fairly well forces that if there are kids involved.

All Trump et al had to do was get on the airwaves and explain the matter and identify what initiatives they were taking to alter the terms of the Agreement. Alternatively, Trump could have actually hired experienced people who knew from the get-go that Flores was the impediment to his policy aims and dealt with Flores before going off half-cocked arresting people and their kids.
Click to expand...

True as respects the administration, but the members of Congress you cited are not part of the White House, nor "aides."
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

phattonez said:
Many of these "kids" are sex slaves or other abused children. Is it a good idea to keep these kids with these adults, or should we figure things out before we allow family reunification?
Click to expand...

What? Sex slaves? Who told you that?
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

phattonez said:
Many of these "kids" are sex slaves or other abused children. Is it a good idea to keep these kids with these adults, or should we figure things out before we allow family reunification?
Click to expand...

"Many of these kids". Many of these toddlers and infants. You might be able to make a case for some of the kids that are handed to smugglers as they are generally older and more exposed to gang violence just based on the smuggler connection. Even their "Many" is about as nebulous as it gets.
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

Grand Mal said:
What? Sex slaves? Who told you that?
Click to expand...

This is public knowledge:

Wikipedia said:
This extremely porous border has historically been the site of one of the most protracted labor migrations in the world, and is North America's largest transit site for young children exploited in labor and sex trafficking as of 2011.
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human...king_across_the_border_with_the_United_States

Have you not heard the stories from border patrol agents, how they find young girls with Plan B pills and contraceptives? Why do you think they take those things with them?
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

jnug said:
"Many of these kids". Many of these toddlers and infants. You might be able to make a case for some of the kids that are handed to smugglers as they are generally older and more exposed to gang violence just based on the smuggler connection. Even their "Many" is about as nebulous as it gets.
Click to expand...

Wikipedia said:
Smugglers sometimes pretend to offer reduced fees to women and child migrants and then sexually assault or rape them as a form of substitute "payment".[14][30] Human traffickers masquerading as coyotes often use false promises of guaranteed jobs to lure migrants, and will sometimes kidnap women and children along the journey, either for ransom from their families, or to be sold in the US into servitude or prostitution.
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human...king_across_the_border_with_the_United_States
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

Xelor said:
So, from all that we see that, along with being completely inconsistent "from soup to nuts," the President, his WH, and his top aides just flat-out lied over and over and over again. And, truly, they really didn't need to lie at all because the fact is that they didn't want to do "catch and release;" however, Flores Agreement fairly well forces that if there are kids involved.

All Trump et al had to do was get on the airwaves and explain the matter and identify what initiatives they were taking to alter the terms of the Agreement. Alternatively, Trump could have actually hired experienced people who knew from the get-go that Flores was the impediment to his policy aims and dealt with Flores before going off half-cocked arresting people and their kids.
Click to expand...

The risk (well, one of them) is that people become inured to the constant lies, like teenagers playing violent video games, and by the time the lies have been exposed and debunked the attention focus has moved on and nobody cares anymore. This about the immigration issue follows the same pattern as the steel and aluminum tariffs, which were necessary for national security reasons but became negotiable and then made necessary by the intractable people on the other side of the table.
It's almost as if the administration deliberately, from the start, flooded the American people with an avalanche of mendacity so the day would come when truth and lies don't matter anymore. What does the President say? That's all the truth that's needed.

All that aside, the last time I saw someone toss blame in so many directions he was 8 years old.
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

"Smugglers sometimes pretend to offer reduced fees to women and child migrants and then sexually assault or rape them as a form of substitute "payment".[14][30] Human traffickers masquerading as coyotes often use false promises of guaranteed jobs to lure migrants, and will sometimes kidnap women and children along the journey, either for ransom from their families, or to be sold in the US into servitude or prostitution.[14] Many unaccompanied children also make the crossing from Mexico to the U.S. Over 26,000 such children were apprehended at the U.S. border in the first half of 2016.[31] Unaccompanied minors are sometimes sold into prostitution by the trafficker, and their families are falsely led to believe that they died during transit.[14]"

Most of the Wiki piece you linked to was about sex trafficking in Central and South America and Mexico. The only part of the Wiki piece that referred to smuggling into the US is the paragraph I pulled from it that is shown above. The word "many" is not used once in that paragraph. "Sometimes" is as far as it is willing to go.
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

phattonez said:
Many of these "kids" are sex slaves or other abused children. Is it a good idea to keep these kids with these adults, or should we figure things out before we allow family reunification?
Click to expand...

Red: It's a good idea to quantify the nature and extent of your attention's verity.
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

The stunning incompetence of the Trump administration while on display just about from day 1 really has been on display with this one. Zero Tolerance started six weeks ago, not six years ago. So just for starters, Trump's claim that millions of people would be crossing our borders were it not for zero tolerance seems specious in its face because that was not the case before Zero Tolerance.

Now the stunningly incompetent Trump administration mainly due to Donald himself just keeps backing itself further into the dunce cap corner. As had been pointed out in posts from yesterday, Trump's only real option here and one that did still include political and other consequences for him was for Sessions to rescind his 100% prosecution, zero tolerance policy. All Trump's EO did for him was back himself further into a corner. Has not earned himself or his henchmen even a moments respite because it was so easy to see the consequences of doing anything other than completely rescinding zero tolerance and returning to prosecutor's discretion in handling what is in fact a misdemeanor offense.
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

Xelor said:
Red: It's a good idea to quantify the nature and extent of your attention's verity.
Click to expand...
Read the article. The Mexican border has one of the highest rates of trafficking in the world.

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Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

jnug said:
"Smugglers sometimes pretend to offer reduced fees to women and child migrants and then sexually assault or rape them as a form of substitute "payment".[14][30] Human traffickers masquerading as coyotes often use false promises of guaranteed jobs to lure migrants, and will sometimes kidnap women and children along the journey, either for ransom from their families, or to be sold in the US into servitude or prostitution.[14] Many unaccompanied children also make the crossing from Mexico to the U.S. Over 26,000 such children were apprehended at the U.S. border in the first half of 2016.[31] Unaccompanied minors are sometimes sold into prostitution by the trafficker, and their families are falsely led to believe that they died during transit.[14]"

Most of the Wiki piece you linked to was about sex trafficking in Central and South America and Mexico. The only part of the Wiki piece that referred to smuggling into the US is the paragraph I pulled from it that is shown above. The word "many" is not used once in that paragraph. "Sometimes" is as far as it is willing to go.
Click to expand...
Lol, your basic argument is that "it's not that money, so we should completely ignore the problem and let the unknown number of children be exploited."

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Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

I should point out there was one other option to this mess, one that I mentioned several posts ago. But Trump has since come out and publicly stated he has no interest in more judges. Then again, he says five entirely contradictory things on every subject now, often during the same speech. But faster processing would be a sensible solution. It would require more judges and it would work best if we had developed the kinds of intelligence capabilities and relationships in South and Central America that we should have and that we used to have. But since Islamic terror gets all the PR it has entirely bent our capabilities and assets out of whack. At any rate, even from where we are today. faster processing would stand a good chance of success because in fact most asylum seekers, particularly those crossing with their children are seeking asylum with just cause. A good system would both facilitate their claims and capture up the "criminal" element that Trump uses in his scare tactics. It should have enough horsepower to make it work. There are other resources we could bring to bear if we just had the judges.

We could have the judges were it not for Trump simply not caring to make something work. It is not what he has in mind, obviously. We would not have the judges overnight but it would be a faster road to a good outcome than the garbage being floated out there by this administration.
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

phattonez said:
Lol, your basic argument is that "it's not that money, so we should completely ignore the problem and let the unknown number of children be exploited."

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Click to expand...

"Its not that money". I guess that is what I should have expected since you seem to miss the point that "many" was not a characterization that could be reasonably drawn from the piece that you linked.
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

jnug said:
"Its not that money". I guess that is what I should have expected since you seem to miss the point that "many" was not a characterization that could be reasonably drawn from the piece that you linked.
Click to expand...
I meant many. Sometimes typos slip by when I respond on my phone.

See here for a more through investigation.
http://digitalcommons.library.tmc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1031&context=childrenatrisk

They estimate 20,000 women and children are trafficked every year.

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Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

phattonez said:
I meant many. Sometimes typos slip by when I respond on my phone.

See here for a more through investigation.
http://digitalcommons.library.tmc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1031&context=childrenatrisk

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Glad you cleared that up. You still seem to be missing the point that "many" was not a characterization that could be reasonably drawn from the piece that you linked.
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

jnug said:
"Smugglers sometimes pretend to offer reduced fees to women and child migrants and then sexually assault or rape them as a form of substitute "payment".[14][30] Human traffickers masquerading as coyotes often use false promises of guaranteed jobs to lure migrants, and will sometimes kidnap women and children along the journey, either for ransom from their families, or to be sold in the US into servitude or prostitution.[14] Many unaccompanied children also make the crossing from Mexico to the U.S. Over 26,000 such children were apprehended at the U.S. border in the first half of 2016.[31] Unaccompanied minors are sometimes sold into prostitution by the trafficker, and their families are falsely led to believe that they died during transit.[14]"

Most of the Wiki piece you linked to was about sex trafficking in Central and South America and Mexico. The only part of the Wiki piece that referred to smuggling into the US is the paragraph I pulled from it that is shown above. The word "many" is not used once in that paragraph. "Sometimes" is as far as it is willing to go.
Click to expand...

So you are saying it is for the best to separate kids from their guardians?
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

Lovebug said:
So you are saying it is for the best to separate kids from their guardians?
Click to expand...

My recommendation to people that try to bait other forum members is to find something more worthwhile to do.
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

jnug said:
I should point out there was one other option to this mess, one that I mentioned several posts ago. But Trump has since come out and publicly stated he has no interest in more judges. Then again, he says five entirely contradictory things on every subject now, often during the same speech. But faster processing would be a sensible solution. It would require more judges and it would work best if we had developed the kinds of intelligence capabilities and relationships in South and Central America that we should have and that we used to have. But since Islamic terror gets all the PR it has entirely bent our capabilities and assets out of whack. At any rate, even from where we are today. faster processing would stand a good chance of success because in fact most asylum seekers, particularly those crossing with their children are seeking asylum with just cause. A good system would both facilitate their claims and capture up the "criminal" element that Trump uses in his scare tactics. It should have enough horsepower to make it work. There are other resources we could bring to bear if we just had the judges.

We could have the judges were it not for Trump simply not caring to make something work. It is not what he has in mind, obviously. We would not have the judges overnight but it would be a faster road to a good outcome than the garbage being floated out there by this administration.
Click to expand...

How do judges determine whether a child belongs to the guardian? It takes judges and a lot more to make that determination, no? If we want to streamline the process, we need to double up our resources at the border, while Congress works simultaneously on the legal aspect of it.
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

jnug said:
My recommendation to people that try to bait other forum members is to find something more worthwhile to do.
Click to expand...

I reserve the right to ask a simple question.
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

phattonez said:
This is public knowledge:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human...king_across_the_border_with_the_United_States

Have you not heard the stories from border patrol agents, how they find young girls with Plan B pills and contraceptives? Why do you think they take those things with them?
Click to expand...

So you need to take children away from their parents to protect them from American sexual perverts?
About half of that Wiki article footnotes a 12-year-old report in the Fordham Law Revue called "Misery and Mypoia: Understanding the Failures of U.S. Efforts to Stop Human Trafficking." In 12 years, progress means taking children away from their parents.
Wotta crock. You guys will stand on your heads to justify your Dear Leader's excesses.
What's the 'spin du jour' now that Trump's decided to stop the practice? Are there no longer pedophile perverts in the US waiting eagerly for those kids to come into their arms?
 
Re: This is what they said about the practice of separating children under "zero tolerance"

Grand Mal said:
So you need to take children away from their parents to protect them from American sexual perverts?
About half of that Wiki article footnotes a 12-year-old report in the Fordham Law Revue called "Misery and Mypoia: Understanding the Failures of U.S. Efforts to Stop Human Trafficking." In 12 years, progress means taking children away from their parents.
Wotta crock. You guys will stand on your heads to justify your Dear Leader's excesses.
What's the 'spin du jour' now that Trump's decided to stop the practice? Are there no longer pedophile perverts in the US waiting eagerly for those kids to come into their arms?
Click to expand...
How do you know that the adults accompanying the children are actually the parents?

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