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Is there a law that requires families to be separated at the border?

OscarLevant

OscarLevant

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Is there a law that requires families to be separated at the border? | Fact Checker
The simple answer is no there is not..

[video]https://wapo.st/2ljDjbl[/video]

Crossing the border without authorization for the first time is a misdemeanor so what is happening is the Trump Administration has chosen to prosecute misdemeanors and separate children from their parents on a misdemeanor and this is unprecedented cruel and inhumane.

A PR flap of astronomical proportions is unfolding and is swelling to even greater heights and we should see where it leads. I sincerely doubt it will be good news for the Trump Administration. The truth is the Trump Administration could stop his with a stroke of a pen-- it's that simple folks. This policy is entirely his doing and in my view amounts to child abuse.
 
OscarLevant said:
Is there a law that requires families to be separated at the border? | Fact Checker
The simple answer is no there is not..

[video]https://wapo.st/2ljDjbl[/video]

Crossing the border without authorization for the first time is a misdemeanor so what is happening is the Trump Administration has chosen to prosecute misdemeanors and separate children from their parents on a misdemeanor and this is unprecedented cruel and inhumane.

A PR flap of astronomical proportions is unfolding and is swelling to even greater heights and we should see where it leads. I sincerely doubt it will be good news for the Trump Administration. The truth is the Trump Administration could stop his with a stroke of a pen-- it's that simple folks. This policy is entirely his doing and in my view amounts to child abuse.
Click to expand...

So you favor either locking up the minors with the parents or not prosecuting those who break our laws....
 
We do have a successful electronic bracelet monitoring system in place for normal criminals.

It'd also be easier to simply lock the family up together.

Yadda yadda. Words don't matter. Nobody has explained why the separation tactic is necessary, or even desireable. Oh I take that back. Trump explained that it is bargaining chip.
 
OscarLevant said:
Is there a law that requires families to be separated at the border? | Fact Checker
The simple answer is no there is not..

[video]https://wapo.st/2ljDjbl[/video]

Crossing the border without authorization for the first time is a misdemeanor so what is happening is the Trump Administration has chosen to prosecute misdemeanors and separate children from their parents on a misdemeanor and this is unprecedented cruel and inhumane.

A PR flap of astronomical proportions is unfolding and is swelling to even greater heights and we should see where it leads. I sincerely doubt it will be good news for the Trump Administration. The truth is the Trump Administration could stop his with a stroke of a pen-- it's that simple folks. This policy is entirely his doing and in my view amounts to child abuse.
Click to expand...

It is a method of deterring illegal immigration and so is a wall - Trump wants folks to choose between those options.

Many misdemeanors can (and do) result in arrest where parents and children are spearated. Should shoplifters with children be let go rather than jailed?

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.c...misdemeanor-offense/shoplifting-charges-texas
 
So, if your minor child were to runaway to Canada, get caught crossing illegally, you would have no problem with your child being put into a detention center with adults thereby exposing your child to possible abuses by adults?
 
Mr Person said:
We do have a successful electronic bracelet monitoring system in place for normal criminals.

It'd also be easier to simply lock the family up together.

Yadda yadda. Words don't matter. Nobody has explained why the separation tactic is necessary, or even desireable. Oh I take that back. Trump explained that it is bargaining chip.
Click to expand...

The crime of illegal immigration is being here illegally - making the punishment be staying here (illegally?) makes little sense.
 
OscarLevant said:
Is there a law that requires families to be separated at the border? | Fact Checker
The simple answer is no there is not..

[video]https://wapo.st/2ljDjbl[/video]

Crossing the border without authorization for the first time is a misdemeanor so what is happening is the Trump Administration has chosen to prosecute misdemeanors and separate children from their parents on a misdemeanor and this is unprecedented cruel and inhumane.

A PR flap of astronomical proportions is unfolding and is swelling to even greater heights and we should see where it leads. I sincerely doubt it will be good news for the Trump Administration. The truth is the Trump Administration could stop his with a stroke of a pen-- it's that simple folks. This policy is entirely his doing and in my view amounts to child abuse.
Click to expand...

The OP is obfuscating the truth;

*By law, when adults are detained and criminally prosecuted, their children cannot be housed with them in jail.*

No, Donald Trump?s separation of immigrant families was not Barack Obama?s policy | PunditFact
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The crime of illegal immigration is being here illegally - making the punishment be staying here (illegally?) makes little sense.
Click to expand...

1. I am not talking about the punishment. I am talking about the complaint of "catch and release" leading to families who deliberately bring children disappearing and not being caught.

2. Unlawful entry is a federal misdemeanor, yes, but the current kerfluffle is about people presenting themselves for asylum.




There simply isn't any reason for what they are doing. They could get rid of them just as easily (if not more so) without it.
 
OscarLevant said:
Is there a law that requires families to be separated at the border? | Fact Checker
The simple answer is no there is not..

[video]https://wapo.st/2ljDjbl[/video]

Crossing the border without authorization for the first time is a misdemeanor so what is happening is the Trump Administration has chosen to prosecute misdemeanors and separate children from their parents on a misdemeanor and this is unprecedented cruel and inhumane.

A PR flap of astronomical proportions is unfolding and is swelling to even greater heights and we should see where it leads. I sincerely doubt it will be good news for the Trump Administration. The truth is the Trump Administration could stop his with a stroke of a pen-- it's that simple folks. This policy is entirely his doing and in my view amounts to child abuse.
Click to expand...

Daddy and mommy are the abusers. Our immigration policy just stops it at our borders.

The PR flap seems to be waning. The left's get Trump memes generally do. As more and more leads back to previous administrations more are figuring it for what it is.

With the elections just around the corner it's time for a new plan.
 
Mr Person said:
We do have a successful electronic bracelet monitoring system in place for normal criminals.

It'd also be easier to simply lock the family up together.

Yadda yadda. Words don't matter. Nobody has explained why the separation tactic is necessary, or even desireable. Oh I take that back. Trump explained that it is bargaining chip.
Click to expand...

It has been explained, over and over again...here, see?

Captain Adverse said:
That would be "in previous Administrations PRIOR to the Flores Consent Decree of 1997 modified in 2016," via the Ninth Circuit Court to apply to ALL immigrant children.

The Flores Consent Decree from 1997 says that unaccompanied children can be held only 20 days. A ruling by the Ninth Circuit extended this 20-day limit to children who come as part of family units. So even if we want to hold a family unit together, we are forbidden from doing so.

Original 1997 decision: https://www.aclu.org/files/pdfs/immigrants/flores_v_meese_agreement.pdf

Ninth Circuit decision 2016: https://www.aclu.org/files/pdfs/immigrants/flores_v_meese_agreement.pdf ...
Click to expand...

You should know that these agreements hold the force of law, as do any other court ruling on such issues.

Of the 12,000 kids currently under supervision by the HHS Unaccompanied Minor program over 10,000 of them were sent north because of the original Flores agreement.

This new batch of "accompanied minors" was directly due to the Ninth Circuit modification in 2016.

Of course, the argument is for "catch and release" which was being done prior to the current administration. Illegal arrives with family, claims asylum. Administration does want to look bad separating kids/parents. So they are allowed entry pending their legal proceedings...and some simply never return to court.

Trump is simply saying "no more;" that if you try that now we will handle it as per the law. The adults get processed through the legal system, and the kids are placed under HHS supervision pending the outcome.
 
OscarLevant said:
Is there a law that requires families to be separated at the border? | Fact Checker
The simple answer is no there is not..

[video]https://wapo.st/2ljDjbl[/video]

Crossing the border without authorization for the first time is a misdemeanor so what is happening is the Trump Administration has chosen to prosecute misdemeanors and separate children from their parents on a misdemeanor and this is unprecedented cruel and inhumane.

A PR flap of astronomical proportions is unfolding and is swelling to even greater heights and we should see where it leads. I sincerely doubt it will be good news for the Trump Administration. The truth is the Trump Administration could stop his with a stroke of a pen-- it's that simple folks. This policy is entirely his doing and in my view amounts to child abuse.
Click to expand...

There is not a single law, but there is a combination of laws, policy and court rulings that result in children being separated from their detained parents. There are only two things that can prevent this from happening:

1. Trump decide to not enforce the law.

2. Congress change the law.

Trump won't do the first...Congress won't do the second. It continues.
 
Mr Person said:
1. I am not talking about the punishment. I am talking about the complaint of "catch and release" leading to families who deliberately bring children disappearing and not being caught.

2. Unlawful entry is a federal misdemeanor, yes, but the current kerfluffle is about people presenting themselves for asylum.


There simply isn't any reason for what they are doing. They could get rid of them just as easily (if not more so) without it.
Click to expand...

Illegal entry also carries a removal/deportation sentence with a re-entry penalty period during which one ineligible for asylum.
 
Mycroft said:
There is not a single law, but there is a combination of laws, policy and court rulings that result in children being separated from their detained parents. There are only two things that can prevent this from happening:

1. Trump decide to not enforce the law.

2. Congress change the law.

Trump won't do the first...Congress won't do the second. It continues.
Click to expand...


Because Trump won't do the first, he's going to pay for it, or Repubs are, for not standing up to him.

This is child abuse.
 
Fledermaus said:
So you favor either locking up the minors with the parents or not prosecuting those who break our laws....
Click to expand...


Do you think you would deserve having your child taken away from you and you be locked up and jailed for a misdemeanor first offense?

That's what is happening, and it's unprecedented.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
It is a method of deterring illegal immigration and so is a wall - Trump wants folks to choose between those options.

Many misdemeanors can (and do) result in arrest where parents and children are spearated. Should shoplifters with children be let go rather than jailed?

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.c...misdemeanor-offense/shoplifting-charges-texas
Click to expand...


The parents are deported, and the kids remain in this country, and they are losing track of parents.

Ou can't compare that to other misdemeanors in the USA, where there are relatives for te kids, and easy to keep track of everyone.

What Trump is doing is unecessary, cruel, abusive for the kids in a new country, and many on both right and left are appalled, and there is swelling opposition.
 
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/was-law-separate-families-passed-1997/

A "law to separate families" was enacted prior to April 2018, and the federal government is powerless not to enforce it.
Click to expand...

However, neither the 1997 Flores settlement nor a 2008 human trafficking law cited in that release in any way stipulated that the government separate children from their parents:
Click to expand...

A cluster of rumors about the controversial separation of families at the border held that the policy came before the Trump administration, either stemming from a 1997 “law” or purported policies of previous administrations. Those claims were false. No federal law required or suggested the family separation policy announced by Attorney General Sessions in several sets of remarks during April and May 2018.
Click to expand...


conclusion: false aka 'fake news'
 
OscarLevant said:
Is there a law that requires families to be separated at the border? | Fact Checker
The simple answer is no there is not..

[video]https://wapo.st/2ljDjbl[/video]

Crossing the border without authorization for the first time is a misdemeanor so what is happening is the Trump Administration has chosen to prosecute misdemeanors and separate children from their parents on a misdemeanor and this is unprecedented cruel and inhumane.

A PR flap of astronomical proportions is unfolding and is swelling to even greater heights and we should see where it leads. I sincerely doubt it will be good news for the Trump Administration. The truth is the Trump Administration could stop his with a stroke of a pen-- it's that simple folks. This policy is entirely his doing and in my view amounts to child abuse.
Click to expand...

So the real answer here was yes. All you said was children are getting separated because parents who broke the law and brought their children along for the crime are being prosecuted.
 
FreeWits said:
So the real answer here was yes. All you said was children are getting separated because parents who broke the law and brought their children along for the crime are being prosecuted.
Click to expand...

There is no law requiring the DOJ to prosecute first time crossers ( misdemeanors ) as crims, jail them, etc., either. Historically, it was never done. Zero Tolerance, therefore, is a new policy.

DOJ does not enforce all laws. Trump is being sued by NY, and AG stated "for persistent illegal activities pertaining to Trump Foundation", but he is not being indicted. They could indict, if they wanted to, ( it's not settled law ) but they are not.

That is why the answer is no.
 
OscarLevant said:
There is no law requiring the DOJ to prosecute first time crossers ( misdemeanors ) as crims, jail them, etc., either. Historically, it was never done. Zero Tolerance, therefore, is a new policy.

DOJ does not enforce all laws. Trump is being sued by NY, and AG stated "for persistent illegal activities pertaining to Trump Foundation", but he is not being indicted. They could indict, if they wanted to, ( it's not settled law ) but they are not.

That is why the answer is no.
Click to expand...

Of course there is no law saying a law has to be prosecuted. I'm not even sure it's constitutional for the legislative branch to require that. Having said that, I have no problem prosecuting these people. They deserve to be prosecuted and prosecutions serve as a deterrent for others. No parent should put their child in harm's way like these parents put their children in harm's way. What anti-Trumpers have been doing is pretending like Trump is purposefully separating children from parents, and that's not the case. All his administration is doing is actually prosecuting people who broke the law. And because of that prosecution, the law requires that these children be removed from the parents while they await trial.
 
OscarLevant said:
Because Trump won't do the first, he's going to pay for it, or Repubs are, for not standing up to him.

This is child abuse.
Click to expand...

So...you would rather Trump not enforce a law than Congress change a law.

Trump's job is to enforce the law. The job of Congress is to write the laws.

Why are you giving Congress a pass for not doing their job?
 
OscarLevant said:
Is there a law that requires families to be separated at the border? | Fact Checker
The simple answer is no there is not..

[video]https://wapo.st/2ljDjbl[/video]

Crossing the border without authorization for the first time is a misdemeanor so what is happening is the Trump Administration has chosen to prosecute misdemeanors and separate children from their parents on a misdemeanor and this is unprecedented cruel and inhumane.

A PR flap of astronomical proportions is unfolding and is swelling to even greater heights and we should see where it leads. I sincerely doubt it will be good news for the Trump Administration. The truth is the Trump Administration could stop his with a stroke of a pen-- it's that simple folks. This policy is entirely his doing and in my view amounts to child abuse.
Click to expand...
Chuck is that you?

Congress could stop it by changing the law.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk
 
OscarLevant said:
The parents are deported, and the kids remain in this country, and they are losing track of parents.

Ou can't compare that to other misdemeanors in the USA, where there are relatives for te kids, and easy to keep track of everyone.

What Trump is doing is unecessary, cruel, abusive for the kids in a new country, and many on both right and left are appalled, and there is swelling opposition.
Click to expand...

It is obviously not easy to keep track of everyone or we would not have 12 million illegal immigrants in the country.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
It is obviously not easy to keep track of everyone or we would not have 12 million illegal immigrants in the country.
Click to expand...

So not easy that hundreds of these children will never see their parents again.
 
OscarLevant said:
Is there a law that requires families to be separated at the border? | Fact Checker
The simple answer is no there is not..

[video]https://wapo.st/2ljDjbl[/video]

Crossing the border without authorization for the first time is a misdemeanor so what is happening is the Trump Administration has chosen to prosecute misdemeanors and separate children from their parents on a misdemeanor and this is unprecedented cruel and inhumane.

A PR flap of astronomical proportions is unfolding and is swelling to even greater heights and we should see where it leads. I sincerely doubt it will be good news for the Trump Administration. The truth is the Trump Administration could stop his with a stroke of a pen-- it's that simple folks. This policy is entirely his doing and in my view amounts to child abuse.
Click to expand...

OMG, Trump is *gasp* actually enforcing the immigration law. Are there any (many?) other misdemeanors that should not be prosecuted because the alleged perp has their kid with them?

Should we cease prosecuting shoplifters, public intoxication, vandalism, driving w/o a license or driving while intoxicated? There is absolutely no reason to use 'I have my kid with me' to excuse (waive?) prosecuting those that commit misdemeanor crimes and, if anything, committing a crime with one's kid in tow should make that offense more serious.
 
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